Night Vision Realistic engagement range of Armasight Predator 336 2-8x25

[Dthomas3523]

I have an opportunity to pick one of these up at a good price.

Anyone have an idea at the max distance you can comfortably identify and engage hogs or coyotes?

Goal is to shoot hogs up to 300 yds.

Thanks

 

[benzy2]

It really depends. Are you in an area where there will be cows/deer/etc? If nothing around looks like a pig other than pigs, you could probably do 300 yards. If there is anything out there that can be confused as a round blob then probably a lot closer. You’ll certainly be able to see them at 300 but it’s going to be a stretch to ID them if anything else is roaming the area too. I wouldn’t feel comfortable shooting at something bedded down at that range. But I’ve also been on hunts where only deer and pigs came in to the feeders and at 200-300 yards it was very easy to tell one from the other using a similar scope. But there were two options on what was coming in and they all could be watched for 500+ yards on their way in. I wasn’t stalking up to random hot spots that were holding still.

 

[Dthomas3523]

It really depends. Are you in an area where there will be cows/deer/etc? If nothing around looks like a pig other than pigs, you could probably do 300 yards. If there is anything out there that can be confused as a round blob then probably a lot closer. You’ll certainly be able to see them at 300 but it’s going to be a stretch to ID them if anything else is roaming the area too. I wouldn’t feel comfortable shooting at something bedded down at that range. But I’ve also been on hunts where only deer and pigs came in to the feeders and at 200-300 yards it was very easy to tell one from the other using a similar scope. But there were two options on what was coming in and they all could be watched for 500+ yards on their way in. I wasn’t stalking up to random hot spots that were holding still.

Definitely need to be able to identify from cows where I’m at. That’s what I’m getting at. About how far do things just look like hot spots moving around vs taking the shape of whatever they are.

 

[j-huskey]

Research into these units gives max range at 935 yards, spec sheet. Can't find a max id range listed anywhere.
User comments give 90% 5 star ratings, and several users commented no problems with id at and up to 200 yards on pigs.
This about the same experience reported with similar units with the same core and equivalent lenses. This unit is supposed to have a better lense on it than other units using the same core.
Every series of comments said zooming to 4x sucked. About 2/3 said 2x sucked and 1/3 said 2x was ok.
That's all I could find so far. That fits my experience with any of the 336 units I've handled. Wish this was more help.

 

[wigwamitus]

I don't think you will be happy trying to ID/engage targets out to 300yds with a predator. It works inside 100-150yds.

300yds is a long way at night. On unfamiliar ground, in poor thermal conditions, 300yds is even further at night.

Here's my go to setup for patrol/stalking style hunting ...

And I would have a bushy LRF in a pouch as well.

IR-Patrol on the left eye. PVS-14 with PAS29 clipped on, on the right eye. Good intermediate distance detection/ID with the patrol, fast short distance (inside 150yds) engagement with the 14/29 ir-laser. Longer distance engagement with the MK3 60mm as well as long distance detection/ID.

Need the range finder on unfamiliar ground. Can use the 14 to see the ir-laser in the LRF and guide the pulses on to the target area.

==
In this case, my buddy had my helmet with the patrol and 14 and his bushy LRF. He detected, ID'd this moving yote Other buddy tried to call the yote, it moved away faster. He tried to call it again, it went to ground. First buddy ranged at 205yds, I knew that was 6 inches up for me with 5.56(10.3) with mk3 60mm I held 6 inches above the center of the neck and fired. DRT.

Probability of making that shot with Predator, would have been much lower.

==
Now if shooting from setup position ... in open terrain ... here is 5.56(18) on manfrotto tripod, with PVS-30 and ELIR-3 illuminator (on 3 o'clock so not visible)

Range finder on top of the rifle.

Range finders are very useful, especially on unfamiliar ground, especially if trying to shot out as far as 300yds at night.

==
Pulsar has announced Trails with LRFs ... they should be out this year. Maybe watch for one of those if you want a single unit to shoot out to 300yds.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Thanks very much for the reply. I figured I might be stretching it a bit at night and with 300, but figured I’d ask.

What do you think of: Pulsar Apex XQ50 as an entry level hog thermal?

 

[wigwamitus]

... What do you think of: Pulsar Apex XQ50 as an entry level hog thermal? ...

Probably the best there is ... and toss an integrated LRF on it ... and even better.
Very clear image ... maybe 80% or 90% that of Trijicons ... with the caveat that various thermals do better in some conditions than in others.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Probably the best there is ... and toss an integrated LRF on it ... and even better.
Very clear image ... maybe 80% or 90% that of Trijicons ... with the caveat that various thermals do better in some conditions than in others.

Thanks! This is likely what I will go with.

 

[wigwamitus]

The XP50 Trails with the LRFs won't be out for a while ...

But should be out sometime this year. Keep an eye out for them.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I exchanged an amg for the regular XQ50 to get started. I’m definitely very interested in upgrading to an LRF once they are readily available.

 

[wigwamitus]

http://www.pulsar-nv.com/products/thermal-imaging-sights-trail-with-built-in-rangefinder/thermal-imaging-sight-trail-lrf-xp50/

http://www.pulsar-nv.com/products/t...efinder/thermal-imaging-sight-trail-lrf-xq50/

 

[j-huskey]

@wigwamitus
How do you compare the pulsar apex xq50 with the new flir 233 ?

 

[wigwamitus]

Fixed focus set at 50yds is a show stopper for hunting ... fuzzy beyond 100yds and even if most shots inside 100yds, you want to be able to scan and ID well beyond that, at least out to 300yds.
Any pulsar with a manual focus is way better for hunting.
I suspect a lot of folks look at the price and don't consider the trade-offs.

 

[j-huskey]

Played with 233 and 736 last night again. Noted with you said about fuzzy past 100 (233) Reap smoked it.

Going to put one on a 10" ar, and do 50 and in "things" with it...... see how it works "in the yard".

The 736 was clear as a bell at 500, but having to adjust that hard ass focus every 30-35 yards was a pita.

Your comments about the xq are very valuable to anybody listening. Thanks.

 

[wigwamitus]

We might be slipping off topic ... but interestingly, the trijicon mk3 60mm also has a fixed focus ... but it is fixed at ~infinity ... and works fine ... well perhaps not inside about 50yds, where things get rather "blobby" ... but beyond that, every thing is clear regardless of distance. Even 2x digital works great and gives you net 9x magnification option which makes it the second best thermal spotter we can buy.

And no need to crank the focus.

The UTCx also has a hard focus to turn (as does the PVS-30) but I'm usually on a tripod with those.

The main issue with the 736 is lack of FOV

So exemplifying the trade off between magnification and FOV. Not sure why they came out with the 736 before the 536 as I think the 536 will work for a larger market, but they must have thought otherwise. If I ever get another FLIR/Armasight (Bosun Zeus), I think I will wait for the 75mm 640 ... which should be between 3x and 4x optical magnification.

 

[j-huskey]

We might be off topic, some, but, i can't think of a better way to get useful information out there to the hider. Works for me anyway.

 

[j-huskey]

There is no rhyme nor reason to flir and what they do.....
They just got a fine for itar violations. They do have problems.

 

[wigwamitus]

<<Going to put one on a 10" ar, and do 50 and in "things" with it...... see how it works "in the yard". >>

I use an ATN ODIN 17mm 1x 320(30) for my "in the yard" work these days ...

It is a good "ratter" ... on .22LR ... mostly rats and mice inside 50yds ... and actually I've got predators with it as well, opossum and coons ... I use eley subsonic HP and it rips them up ...

<< he was in a big bush and couldn't get him out until the morning ...

So the ODIN also has a fixed focus but, it is set for infinity and it works at some distance. Before I got the patrol to run on my head, I used the ODIN on my head and when rolling on the 4-wheeler I once was able to detect and ID a yote at 500yds ... we were both moving ... so there is a big difference between fixed focus at infinity and fixed focus at 50yds. And I can ID rats pretty well at under 50 with the ODIN.

Now before that, I had an Armasight Q-14 mod 0 640(30) ... and actually it was a GREAT in the yard thermal sight. And it had a manual focus. In those days I ran the Q-14 on the .22lr and the ODIN on my head ... and Q-14 got it done ...

Q-14s are going for around $3,500 now ... ODIN's around $4,250 ... used ... so they do cost more, though the Breach has driven their prices down a bit.

 

[dinmax82]

I had this same unit and 300 is a no go. Takes some time to tell the difference between a raccoon and pig at 100 as it is.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I had this same unit and 300 is a no go. Takes some time to tell the difference between a raccoon and pig at 100 as it is.

Thanks. That’s what I ended up concluding with my research.

I ended up ordering a Pulsar Apex XQ50 which should work well, as I don’t need onboard recording.

300 is quite a way out at night, just wanted to have an option of longer than 100 should it present itself.