Reality check on new rifle

[MCFLYFYTER]

I will try to make this short, but I am to the point that my thoughts are all jumbled together.

I have never really shot over 200 yards, and I am pretty sensitive to recoil. I can shoot an AR fine, but after 10 rounds of 25-06 in a hunting weight rifle I am flinching like a princess. I fell into the idea of getting a 6.5 creed mostly because of the many great factory options in that caliber. Knowing my inexperience and recoil issues, now I'm thinking that maybe I just need to run a 223 for a while and shoot the heck out of it. If I were to run with a 223, then I have to figure out what bullet weight would be best so I could decide on a twist rate. Ideally I would like something I could shoot all day out to 600 yards or so. I have been thinking about this since the first of February, and I've gotten nowhere. Any thoughts?

 

[Supersubes]

Lucky for you, .223 bolt guns with 8 twist are much more common now than they were only a few years ago. Easy cartridge to load for and a shit ton of suitable bullets for 600. I don’t think you’d regret doing one. You can step up later if need be.

 

[diverdon]

When you want a heavier caliber get a heavier caliber with a brake.

 

[pell1203]

Be aware perceived recoil is also moderated by the overall rifle weight and weight of projectile being launched. It is all a trade-off!

In other words, perhaps a slightly heavier rifle in a larger caliber with a muzzle brake may suit your present and future needs better, Of course, you already know a .223 will work for you right now!

 

[corey4]

Get a can. I never shoot unsuppressed.

 

[FatBoy]

if you already have an AR that will shoot to 600, 223 my be redundant.

I would consider an upper chambered for maybe a Grendal, 6mmAR, 224 Valkyrie if they get that round worked out. These will give you some more range and with only slightly more recoil than 223 and the same ergos.

Otherwise, consider something along the lines of 6BR, 6 Dasher. Play with the recoil calculator below, and if you plan on using a brake I suspect you could cut the impulse and ft# in half. I prefer a can, much more pleasant to shoot than a brake.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

 

[tnbowhunter]

Heavies in a 223...I like 75 grain for target shooting. Then step up to a heavier weight rifle 6.5 with a brake to buck the wind. It would have close to the recoil of a 223. I can watch hits or misses shooting steel at 600 with a heavy 6.5 creedmoor with a brake.

 

[patriot07]

As others have said, there's not a ton of difference between an un-braked 223 and a braked 6.5. I was in your position awhile back and got a Tikka varmint 223. Had a great time shooting out to 400 yards, but it struggled to get past 600 because my accuracy node was at 2650 fps with a 75 BTHP bullet. I would caution you with thinking you are guaranteed to be able to push a 75 or 80 or heavier bullet at 2900+ fps out of a 223. There are guys who do it with fast barrels, lots of powder, and very long OAL that may force them to single-load rounds, but that's very borderline performance for a 223. And without it, a 223 is a 600-800 yard gun, depending on the DA where you shoot and your gun's accuracy node.

I would get a 6.5 with a brake. I thought I would enjoy my 223 more than I did. I love my braked 6.5 way more. I can reach out and touch stuff so much more easily than with my 223. And the recoil is almost nothing.

Flinching is cured better with dry fire practice than with recoil reduction.

 

[steve123]

I will try to make this short, but I am to the point that my thoughts are all jumbled together.

I have never really shot over 200 yards, and I am pretty sensitive to recoil. I can shoot an AR fine, but after 10 rounds of 25-06 in a hunting weight rifle I am flinching like a princess. I fell into the idea of getting a 6.5 creed mostly because of the many great factory options in that caliber. Knowing my inexperience and recoil issues, now I'm thinking that maybe I just need to run a 223 for a while and shoot the heck out of it. If I were to run with a 223, then I have to figure out what bullet weight would be best so I could decide on a twist rate. Ideally I would like something I could shoot all day out to 600 yards or so. I have been thinking about this since the first of February, and I've gotten nowhere. Any thoughts?

Get a 6mm Creed then, assuming you don't reload, otherwise there are plenty of 6mm cartridges to choose from, one like 6mmBR.

Have a brake put on it and double up with ear protection/ear plugs and muffs, or get a can.

To teach yourself not to flinch shoot your 22rf, concentrating mainly on followthrough, which is one of the top aspects of shooting form. Apply that same training to any gun, no matter what.

 

[pineoak]

If shooting center fire, I agree with Corey, get a silencer. Thunderbeast Ultra 7 will cover you for anything you might shoot up to magnums in bolt guns (skip TB if shooting semis)

If shooting factory .223, Tikka T3x is very good (especially with a can)

If you're shooting under 200 yards most of the time. Consider just shooting .22LR

Can't recommend it as I don't have it yet, but Tikka T1x was just released and shipping soon, too new to tell how good it is though

CZ, Ruger lots of .22 or .17 options

I like .22lr for the price

I don't use a silencer on .22 bc I'm too lazy to clean it and .22 isn't that loud

 

[hlee]

A brake will remove a lot of the recoil, but it brings noise and concussion along with it. I have a 7mm rem mag with a brake that- I think- was more pleasant to shoot without the break. It has a brake so my wife doesn't get "scope ringed," but the concussion makes it one of my least favored guns to shoot. Even with plugs and muffs, I get a headache after a few shots.

 

[patriot07]

There is a bit of a difference in a braked 6.5 CM and a braked 7 RM.

I shoot my braked 6.5 with my 7 year old daughter right next to me looking through the spotting scope and she doesn't mind one bit. She likes the 6.5 because it makes the steel targets swing a lot more.

 

[hlee]

Trure, but for someone that is already recoil sensitive (which I do not consider myself) concussion is an additional consideration when looking to add a brake to a rifle- any rifle.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

A heavy 6.5 is a light recoil rifle. I dislike shotguns for the same reason. 6.5 is not a problem. 50+ rounds and no issues or sensitivity in the shoulder pocket.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

When you all talk about a heavy 6.5, how heavy are we talking to mitigate recoil? I was thinking of getting a howa hcr or bergara hmr if I went with 6.5 creed. My paperwork was just filed today for a can, so that will be a minute.

 

[Namekagon]

A heavy 6.5 is a light recoil rifle. I dislike shotguns for the same reason. 6.5 is not a problem. 50+ rounds and no issues or sensitivity in the shoulder pocket.

A heavy rifle shooting light bullets is the key. I had a 12lb 22-250 that I shot at 600 yards and would never loose the sight picture. Never needed a spotter. 600 yards was pushing it for that rifle because it was only a 14" twist. Lots of wind drift. That rifle completely re-taught me how to shoot. Eliminated all my flinch, and really taught me some lessons in wind reading. It made me a better shooter.

A 6mm (which specific one depends on whether you reload or not) would be a much better performer at 600 ballistically. But keep bullet weight down to the minimum necessary to help with recoil, and force you to read the wind more carefully. A 95gr VLD would be an excellent choice.

If I was to try to fix a flinch by using an AR, I would make sure it had a good trigger. A creepy, gravelly el-cheapo stock AR trigger won't do you any favors.

 

[Namekagon]

Also, I rebarreled that 22-250 with a 6XC barrel. Jumping up to 107gr bullets pushed as hot as I could. There was a noticeable difference in recoil. I can still watch impacts, but have to focus on follow through alot more to do it. Concentrating on seeing the impact of the bullet is a great way to teach yourself to not flinch.

Oddly enough, I also embarked down this road trying to eliminate a flinch i developed shooting a featherweight 25-06 as a kid.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think the reasoning you put forth in your original post is solid thinking. I also think that simpler is better, and that a .223 in a longer barrel (I suggest 24") and a reasonably faster twist (1:8") will handle the 75's really well, with 600yd being near the upper distance limit.

My thinking on heavy bullets in a .223 chambering is that 75/77 gr is a reasonable upper limit. The chambering does handle heavier ones, but honestly believe that heavier weights are handled better in a larger bore, and with a larger case capacity. My solution to the larger chambering has been the .260 Rem since 2001, but the 6.5CM is just as valid.

I had a .25-'06 on loan, and it was shot pretty exclusively by a close friend. He shared your dislike for its recoil. It just didn't make that much sense to me that such a small bore diameter and lightweight bullet shouldn't kick so much, but kick it did. I did not mind giving it back to my Brother.

In general, I don't like brakes. Mainly, I dislike the additional noise. I just acquired a 16" .223 Upper with an A2 flash suppressor, and suddenly realized it was the first rifle I've had with a flash suppressor since I sold off my M1a sometime around 2005. I have yet to shoot the new Upper, but I seriously doubt noise will be an issue, probably another legacy of the .223.

Using the Savage site's selection feature, I have tried to narrow down their offerings to suit your preferences. These are not the only ones, Cabelas and other Big box stores have proprietary models that can also be useful, like the Cabelas 10T; which is not limited to the .223 if that's your preference also.

Mossberg has several good rifles in the chambering, too. Their MVP 223's can handle AR mags, too.

Hopefully, this helps.

Greg

 

[260284]

My Tikka Varmint in .223 has a 23.7" barrel and has little to no recoil with 75 ELDMs at 2995 fps with a Harvester on it. 3.5 mils and 1848 fps @ 600 yards, 8.8 mils and 1285 @ 1000. I am using CDI bottom metal and MDT magazines loading to 2.49".

 

[W54/XM-388]

A 10 pound+ rifle in .243 or one of the other 6mm versions would probably be a good option for your needs / recoil desires if you decide you want more than .223 A muzzle break will of course help a lot as well.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

I appreciate all of the replies very much. I am still digesting all of your thoughts and weighing my options. At the moment I'm thinking of staying with the 6.5 and dusting off the 22rf. My oldest boy is 10 and wants to take a deer this year. He will probably spend a lot of time behind a 22rf this summer, so I may as well join him and we can use the 6.5 as a spotter. Thanks

 

[PAYDIRT]

Throw a barrel and a trigger at the ar and shoot to 600 easily. Or get a bolt 223 with a 8 twist. I get my 73 eld's to 650 in a 1/9 twist. 223 is so cheap to shoot, if your max range is 600 a 6.5 is way overkill.

 

[Codiekfx400]

If you are a hand loader get a 223 rpr. If you are not a hand loader get the 6mm Creedmoor rpr. In my experience there is no consistent factory ammo for 600 yards in a 223 (sure someone will correct me). 6mm Creedmoor is very capable of 600 yards even for hunting purposes (it will get to the target with much more retained energy than a 223).

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

Where are all of these 223 bolt guns with an 8 twist? I was planning to buy one today, but the best I could find was 9 or slower.

 

[hereinaz]

Get a heavy barrel rifle, a 6mm or 6.5mm Creedmoor. They are designed for fast twist and long range. Get one with brake to shoot until your can shows up. You can get one in a chassis or pick up a chassis of your choice. With an appropriate long range scope, you are going to have a rifle at or over 12 pounds. Neither of the two rifles above are going to give you much recoil.

I have a 6.5 now, and it shoots nice. I really like 6mm bullets that are in the 108-115 class for long range, so I am getting a 6 creedmoor built. I have a .243 that I am shooting, but it is a 9 twist, so I can't run the long and heavy bullets in it. But, the 87 and 95 VLD run in it nicely.

 

[Precision Underground]

The only way you will overcome the flinch is to build a correct position and shoot more. I agree with others that adding a brake can do more harm than good. To me it’s harder to overcome a concussion flinch than it is to overcome a recoil flinch. I’ve been shooting 1-3 times a week for about a year and have just now gotten where I can pull the trigger without even blinking. 6 months ago I would have said it was impossible to shoot without blinking. I can now see hits at 200 yards when before I had to get out to 400-500 before I had time to see hits. I’m shooting a 5.56 with a brake and a 6.5 with no brake. The 6.5 taught me way more because I was learning to control recoil rather than learning how to brace for a concussion(even with doubled up ear protection).

 

[patriot07]

Where are all of these 223 bolt guns with an 8 twist? I was planning to buy one today, but the best I could find was 9 or slower.

Tikka Varmint T3x

 

[Codiekfx400]

https://grabagun.com/ruger-precision-5-56mm-20-10-1-mb.html

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

The only way you will overcome the flinch is to build a correct position and shoot more. I agree with others that adding a brake can do more harm than good. To me it’s harder to overcome a concussion flinch than it is to overcome a recoil flinch. I’ve been shooting 1-3 times a week for about a year and have just now gotten where I can pull the trigger without even blinking. 6 months ago I would have said it was impossible to shoot without blinking. I can now see hits at 200 yards when before I had to get out to 400-500 before I had time to see hits. I’m shooting a 5.56 with a brake and a 6.5 with no brake. The 6.5 taught me way more because I was learning to control recoil rather than learning how to brace for a concussion(even with doubled up ear protection).

You do bring up a good point that I will have to pay attention to. It really seems like it is pain related, or at least that's when I notice it. Maybe it is all just bad body position? I know that after 100+ rounds of slugs and double aught buck through a semi auto i started to miss the 100 yard gong while standing. Up until a certain point I was fine, but when it hurts I can't help but wince. I am pretty sure it is the actual pain causing it, but I could be wrong.

 

[W54/XM-388]

You do bring up a good point that I will have to pay attention to. It really seems like it is pain related, or at least that's when I notice it. Maybe it is all just bad body position? I know that after 100+ rounds of slugs and double aught buck through a semi auto i started to miss the 100 yard gong while standing. Up until a certain point I was fine, but when it hurts I can't help but wince. I am pretty sure it is the actual pain causing it, but I could be wrong.

Yes, that's pretty much expected, eventually you have pounded your body enough that it is starting to do light damage & you need to stop.
Just like pleasuring someone else or yourself can be enjoyable, but eventually you'll get feedback from your body that it has had enough friction for one day and please take a break.

That is different from when you first pull up to the shooting line and flinch just a bit before taking your first shot of the day because you are out of practice, or because you have muscle memory of how much this is going to hurt because of what you are shooting / how you are shooting it, or your expected anticipation of recoil.

Muscle memory / Pain memory is a fundamental part of both human / animal brain function and is exceptionally powerful because it's what helps you stay alive. So while you can force yourself to do something that you know hurts, your body remembers it is going to hurt & tries to brace for it / avoid it.

The two most punishing positions for your body shooting are sitting at a bench shooting, or shooting prone in the currently used hug yourself stance. But since that is how most people who are "recoil" sensitive will shoot, you have to be realistic in how to avoid it.

The usual choices are:
Heavy rifle: The heavier the rifle is, the less recoil
Less Mass or velocity: As the mass/velocity equation increases, felt recoil increases, so you cut down mass or speed or both
Recoil compensating devices: Muzzle Brake, Hydraulic shooting rest / recoil system in rifle chassis / mercury dampers etc.

Another thing that some people miss is the specific impulse curve of their chosen setup.
To explain, myself & my friends often take new shooters out pistol shooting, including smaller framed women and lighter framed young people.
Almost all of them find shooting a full sized (1911 or HK45 etc) .45ACP pistol just a bit more comfortable than a 9mm and way better than a .40 S&W, the reason is the powder burn rate / projectile acceleration rate / impulse curve.
This is why some rounds such as the 6.5x55 have a reputation as being soft shooters, a combination of less mass and heavy rifle weight, but also powders that burn slower providing a long acceleration curve down extended length barrels without as sharp of a peak impulse wave.

So in addition to other things, you could go with chambering that can utilize a long barrel and slower burning powder to get the desired velocity without as sharp of an impulse wave and also set it up to not have powder still burning outside the barrel which will help with the sound / muzzle flash.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

Yes, that's pretty much expected, eventually you have pounded your body enough that it is starting to do light damage & you need to stop.
Just like pleasuring someone else or yourself can be enjoyable, but eventually you'll get feedback from your body that it has had enough friction for one day and please take a break.

That is different from when you first pull up to the shooting line and flinch just a bit before taking your first shot of the day because you are out of practice, or because you have muscle memory of how much this is going to hurt because of what you are shooting / how you are shooting it, or your expected anticipation of recoil.

Muscle memory / Pain memory is a fundamental part of both human / animal brain function and is exceptionally powerful because it's what helps you stay alive. So while you can force yourself to do something that you know hurts, your body remembers it is going to hurt & tries to brace for it / avoid it.

The two most punishing positions for your body shooting are sitting at a bench shooting, or shooting prone in the currently used hug yourself stance. But since that is how most people who are "recoil" sensitive will shoot, you have to be realistic in how to avoid it.

The usual choices are:
Heavy rifle: The heavier the rifle is, the less recoil
Less Mass or velocity: As the mass/velocity equation increases, felt recoil increases, so you cut down mass or speed or both
Recoil compensating devices: Muzzle Brake, Hydraulic shooting rest / recoil system in rifle chassis / mercury dampers etc.

Another thing that some people miss is the specific impulse curve of their chosen setup.
To explain, myself & my friends often take new shooters out pistol shooting, including smaller framed women and lighter framed young people.
Almost all of them find shooting a full sized (1911 or HK45 etc) .45ACP pistol just a bit more comfortable than a 9mm and way better than a .40 S&W, the reason is the powder burn rate / projectile acceleration rate / impulse curve.
This is why some rounds such as the 6.5x55 have a reputation as being soft shooters, a combination of less mass and heavy rifle weight, but also powders that burn slower providing a long acceleration curve down extended length barrels without as sharp of a peak impulse wave.

So in addition to other things, you could go with chambering that can utilize a long barrel and slower burning powder to get the desired velocity without as sharp of an impulse wave and also set it up to not have powder still burning outside the barrel which will help with the sound / muzzle flash.

I agree with everything above. If it doesn't hurt, I have no problems. I am just debating on what combination would give me a chance to shoot long range while still being pleasant to shoot. I really don't want a 223, but I can gaurantee it wouldn't hurt.

 

[schlaiek]

one topic that I didn't see mentioned above is how your specific body fits your rifle. I was recently shooting with my dad at Ben Avery using his rifle. I could simply not get myself adjusted to the rifle - stock fit, eye relief, grip ergonomics, etc all matter. I ended up with a small bruise on my shoulder because I wasn't getting the rifle into proper position, something that shouldn't happen with a 15+ pound 6.5 creed rig.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Since you already have the AR, adding this Upper will indeed allow you to shoot out to 600yd all day. Add the BCG and t handle option and you're still well under $500.

You'll need some good 75/77gr ammunition.

I own two of this model's recent predecessor, and have used one of them for 600yd national level F T/R competition (2017 Berger SW LR Nationals). Didn't win, but the real problem was the shooter, the rifle is mid-pack match competitive against all comers.

Greg

 

[W54/XM-388]

I agree with everything above. If it doesn't hurt, I have no problems. I am just debating on what combination would give me a chance to shoot long range while still being pleasant to shoot. I really don't want a 223, but I can gaurantee it wouldn't hurt.

A lot depends on your expected range, are you buying for what you have, or for an eventual possibility.

You mention 600 yards in your post, at that range, a heavy long barrel .223 target rifle shooting higher grain bullets would work very well, and would have minimal recoil & not need a muzzle brake unless you really wanted it. You can hit accurately and fire lots of rounds without discomfort.

Going up from there, something in the 6mm range in a long barrel heavy target rifle would also work well, you may or may not want a brake on it.

Going to the 6.5mm class rounds would be fine, but no need to step up to those at only 600 yards. Those start to be nice once you are trying to get to the 1000 yard range.

I might suggest start with a .223 or a 6mm if you can't stand the idea of a .223 and have fun with that, use it as much as you can & then if you want something bigger, go get it, but you'll still find a good .223 rifle is always a great standby trainer / fun gun / cheap to shoot despite anything else you might get in the future.

 

[JMcBurn]

As others have said, there's not a ton of difference between an un-braked 223 and a braked 6.5. I was in your position awhile back and got a Tikka varmint 223. Had a great time shooting out to 400 yards, but it struggled to get past 600 because my accuracy node was at 2650 fps with a 75 BTHP bullet. I would caution you with thinking you are guaranteed to be able to push a 75 or 80 or heavier bullet at 2900+ fps out of a 223. There are guys who do it with fast barrels, lots of powder, and very long OAL that may force them to single-load rounds, but that's very borderline performance for a 223. And without it, a 223 is a 600-800 yard gun, depending on the DA where you shoot and your gun's accuracy node.

I would get a 6.5 with a brake. I thought I would enjoy my 223 more than I did. I love my braked 6.5 way more. I can reach out and touch stuff so much more easily than with my 223. And the recoil is almost nothing.

Flinching is cured better with dry fire practice than with recoil reduction.

If you still have the gun, my load with the 75 bthp is 23.6 gr of 8208 and that nets me around 2900 fps. I had shot some in the lower node which was 22.4gr and around 2650 fps. Both at 2.255" oal

The gun also shoots the 75 eld at around 3000 fps with 24.6 gr of 8208 0.005" off the lands(2.445" OAL). I had hits out to 670 during a match last weekend.

 

[Precision Underground]

You do bring up a good point that I will have to pay attention to. It really seems like it is pain related, or at least that's when I notice it. Maybe it is all just bad body position? I know that after 100+ rounds of slugs and double aught buck through a semi auto i started to miss the 100 yard gong while standing. Up until a certain point I was fine, but when it hurts I can't help but wince. I am pretty sure it is the actual pain causing it, but I could be wrong.

A 6.5 should not hurt at all if held properly, even without a brake. But yea 100+ 12ga(I assume) slugs standing up will sore the shoulder a bit.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Or you could do a reduced load. Lots of info on the net. I've never seen reduced load data for 6.5 but I'm sure it's out there.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I will try to make this short, but I am to the point that my thoughts are all jumbled together.

I have never really shot over 200 yards, and I am pretty sensitive to recoil. I can shoot an AR fine, but after 10 rounds of 25-06 in a hunting weight rifle I am flinching like a princess. I fell into the idea of getting a 6.5 creed mostly because of the many great factory options in that caliber. Knowing my inexperience and recoil issues, now I'm thinking that maybe I just need to run a 223 for a while and shoot the heck out of it. If I were to run with a 223, then I have to figure out what bullet weight would be best so I could decide on a twist rate. Ideally I would like something I could shoot all day out to 600 yards or so. I have been thinking about this since the first of February, and I've gotten nowhere. Any thoughts?

I only skimmed the responses, so I might have missed on, but I didn't see much being talked about on working on the real issue: your sensitivity to recoil.

Get a subscription to the training section here and start looking at the recoil management videos.

I was (and sometimes still am) flinching very bad with a handgun. Things that helped were shooting a lot around other people, so I became accustomed to the surrounding noises and concussions, and very purposed based training. I would go out with a buddy and shoot enough to induce my flinch. I would then hand him my weapon and turn away. He would load the mag with either a snap cap or a live round on top. We caught me flinching so much it was ridiculous. After I got the single shot down, we started with him mixing in snap caps in my mags and went from there.

I would imaging this drill could be done with a rifle. First things first, work on your basic recoil management fundamentals, then shoot until you're flinching, have a buddy load your rifle and then work on nothing but concentrating on not flinching no matter whether the gun goes click or goes bang.

After relentless working on my handgun recoil/flinch management, I almost never (can't remember the last time) throw any rounds low and left with a pistol.

Purposeful and proper training is the answer, not looking for a rifle that lets you continue to do the wrong things.


Dry firing at home also helps a lot. But its a mind fuck. I was able to sit around all day at home and dry fire perfectly because I knew there was nothing in the chamber. I would sit a piece of pistol brass primer side down on my slide and dry fire without letting the brass fall. When the possibility of recoil was there, I would fuck it up even after doing 1000 perfect dry fires.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

I only skimmed the responses, so I might have missed on, but I didn't see much being talked about on working on the real issue: your sensitivity to recoil.

Get a subscription to the training section here and start looking at the recoil management videos.

I was (and sometimes still am) flinching very bad with a handgun. Things that helped were shooting a lot around other people, so I became accustomed to the surrounding noises and concussions, and very purposed based training. I would go out with a buddy and shoot enough to induce my flinch. I would then hand him my weapon and turn away. He would load the mag with either a snap cap or a live round on top. We caught me flinching so much it was ridiculous. After I got the single shot down, we started with him mixing in snap caps in my mags and went from there.

I would imaging this drill could be done with a rifle. First things first, work on your basic recoil management fundamentals, then shoot until you're flinching, have a buddy load your rifle and then work on nothing but concentrating on not flinching no matter whether the gun goes click or goes bang.

After relentless working on my handgun recoil/flinch management, I almost never (can't remember the last time) throw any rounds low and left with a pistol.

Purposeful and proper training is the answer, not looking for a rifle that lets you continue to do the wrong things.


Dry firing at home also helps a lot. But its a mind fuck. I was able to sit around all day at home and dry fire perfectly because I knew there was nothing in the chamber. I would sit a piece of pistol brass primer side down on my slide and dry fire without letting the brass fall. When the possibility of recoil was there, I would fuck it up even after doing 1000 perfect dry fires.

Thanks. If anything I would think it is bad technique or something. It is caused by the pain more than anything. During a string of fire I get more and more tense. I typically see the effects on paper and try very hard to relax and squeeze. That relaxed shot is usually good, but hurts way beyond comfort. My shoulder is typically somewhat tender for a day or two afterwards.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Do you get the pain when shooting the 25-06?

The shotgun as mentioned above is definitely going to be tender/sore after a day full of shooting.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

I can get 8 or 10 shots off at a bench with the 25-06 before it starts hurting too bad.
I can do around 5 shot of 30-06.

With the shotgun example I was able to go well over 100 rounds before I felt enough pain to have problems. I am guessing it is just the slower recoil pulse. Make no mistake, my shoulder was a little blue after that. It just seems like the sharp recoil of a rifle is much more painful to me.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Unless you have shoulder issues outside of shooting, it has to be technique.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

Maybe it is because I typically square up behind the rifle, as opposed to the more angled shoulders like shooting offhand? I know that works well to control recoil with an ar15. I guess it might be better if my shoulder moved rather than trying to absorb the recoil?

 

[Dthomas3523]

 

[W54/XM-388]

A "hunting weight" rifle could easily be half the weight of a average "tactical" rifle.
A 30-06 or 25-06 in a light weight rifle could be causing you significantly more recoil than what a lot are used to shooting, especially if you are doing it prone or at a bench instead of standing up.

Just to give you a comparison, my AI AW rifle in .308 weighs just about 18 pounds all kitted up.
If you are shooting a 30-06 from a gun half that weight, the recoil would be quite a lot more substantial.

There are some shooting positions that are a bit more very old school that help when shooting heavy recoiling rifles that you can use.

However if your reference for "hurts too bad after 5 rounds" is a "hunting weight" 30-06 rifle, probably in the 9 to 10 pound range, moving to a "Tactical" style chassis rifle like an AI all kitted up with a long heavy barrel, pushing the scales with a scope in the 15+ pound weight or greater, in a light recoiling cartridge like the 6CM, 6.5CM, 6.5x47 or similar would be a world of less punishment on your shoulder

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

A "hunting weight" rifle could easily be half the weight of a average "tactical" rifle.
A 30-06 or 25-06 in a light weight rifle could be causing you significantly more recoil than what a lot are used to shooting, especially if you are doing it prone or at a bench instead of standing up.

Just to give you a comparison, my AI AW rifle in .308 weighs just about 18 pounds all kitted up.
If you are shooting a 30-06 from a gun half that weight, the recoil would be quite a lot more substantial.

There are some shooting positions that are a bit more very old school that help when shooting heavy recoiling rifles that you can use.

However if your reference for "hurts too bad after 5 rounds" is a "hunting weight" 30-06 rifle, probably in the 9 to 10 pound range, moving to a "Tactical" style chassis rifle like an AI all kitted up with a long heavy barrel, pushing the scales with a scope in the 15+ pound weight or greater, in a light recoiling cartridge like the 6CM, 6.5CM, 6.5x47 or similar would be a world of less punishment on your shoulder

So basically, you shoot a 308 that has a felt recoil that is slightly heavier than a pencil barreled ar-15? My 25-06 weighs 6.5lbs bare with aluminum base and rings, and about a 1 pound scope. Maybe 8lbs total weight?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I’d agree if it were just the 30-06. But I grew up shooting a 25-06 that was around 6lbs. Never had any pain. Many of the hunters in the area switched to the 25 for that reason. Much less felt recoil than the 30-06.

IMO with something like a 25-06, you shouldn’t be experiencing miserable conditions on your shoulder after 10 rounds if you are setting up on the gun properly.

 

[spife7980]

 

[260284]

Where are all of these 223 bolt guns with an 8 twist? I was planning to buy one today, but the best I could find was 9 or slower.

Look at Tikka.

 

[W54/XM-388]

So basically, you shoot a 308 that has a felt recoil that is slightly heavier than a pencil barreled ar-15? My 25-06 weighs 6.5lbs bare with aluminum base and rings, and about a 1 pound scope. Maybe 8lbs total weight?

Pretty much that is it, so I'm assuming you take that same platform weight and take it down to a 6CM or 6.5 CM and recoil would be next to nothing