so if I could get the reap for ~$6500 and the xp50 for $4500 (both new) which should I get? Or should I wait and get something next year when all the prices will have fallen on older models?
Night Vision reap ir vs xp50
- Thread starter Mindreader1
- Start date
They all work, so it is your choice - and you know your use cases better than we do!
If you will be guiding hog hunts, I'd want to be doing the critter id and calling the shots ... so I'd want a BAE core device. If I was trying to have a loner scope for a visiting hunter, I'd get one of the older lower priced pulsars (the prices are already down) ... the xd38a or the xd50a ...
Next year will probably always be about the same, lower prices for existing stuff, newer prices for newer stuff ... I hope the innovation in civilian thermal continues !!!
If you will be guiding hog hunts, I'd want to be doing the critter id and calling the shots ... so I'd want a BAE core device. If I was trying to have a loner scope for a visiting hunter, I'd get one of the older lower priced pulsars (the prices are already down) ... the xd38a or the xd50a ...
Next year will probably always be about the same, lower prices for existing stuff, newer prices for newer stuff ... I hope the innovation in civilian thermal continues !!!
If you are talking pulsar helion xp50 the street price is substantially lower than $4500. Closer to $3600.
I assume OP was referring to the XP50 Trail 640 ...
http://www.opticsplanet.com/pulsar-pl76509q-trail-xp50-therml-scp.html
Shown price on Optics Planet $5k ... but with their usual 10% "call in and ask" discount, that takes it down to $4,500 ...
http://www.opticsplanet.com/pulsar-pl76509q-trail-xp50-therml-scp.html
Shown price on Optics Planet $5k ... but with their usual 10% "call in and ask" discount, that takes it down to $4,500 ...
Correct Wig! I'm able to get a really good deal to get the reap down to about $6500 so it's a matter of deciding whether it's $2k better than xp50 trail. Helton is used for scanning only I believe so can't really use it as a TWS. The new 320 unit from FLIR is supposed to be $2k cheaper than even XP tho so wondering if I should wait for that if it has the same clarity as the xp due to better core.
Aye, but it is not easy to make a 100% data driven choice.
I've looked through the pulsar cores and the bae cores and several FLIR cores, but not the boson cores. And videos unfortunately, do not tell a story that is always aligned with what you see through your eyeballs looking through the devices. Not even in a relative sense. The BAE cores, don't do video well. The FLIR cores have done better with that.
And then finding people who have spent significant time looking through all of them AND are unbiased reporters ... well that isn't easy either.
Certainly the longer you wait, the more likelihood of you seeing reports from unbiased reporters who have looked through them all, but by then new units will exist which lack such reporting. So the steady state in the future looks much like it does now. New units available, with less data. Older units available with more data.
If I was buying now, for the guide role, I would want the best image I could get (for critter id and shot calling) and I would go with the BAE as they seems to be general agreement from even biased reporters that nothing is clearly better than the BAE and that some cores are clearly not as good at image as the BAE.
But if you can wait, then certainly more data will arrive.
I've looked through the pulsar cores and the bae cores and several FLIR cores, but not the boson cores. And videos unfortunately, do not tell a story that is always aligned with what you see through your eyeballs looking through the devices. Not even in a relative sense. The BAE cores, don't do video well. The FLIR cores have done better with that.
And then finding people who have spent significant time looking through all of them AND are unbiased reporters ... well that isn't easy either.
Certainly the longer you wait, the more likelihood of you seeing reports from unbiased reporters who have looked through them all, but by then new units will exist which lack such reporting. So the steady state in the future looks much like it does now. New units available, with less data. Older units available with more data.
If I was buying now, for the guide role, I would want the best image I could get (for critter id and shot calling) and I would go with the BAE as they seems to be general agreement from even biased reporters that nothing is clearly better than the BAE and that some cores are clearly not as good at image as the BAE.
But if you can wait, then certainly more data will arrive.
In the same boat and went with the Pulsar Trail XP50. It is around 80-90% the image of the IRD/Trijicon Reap IR.
My thinking was I will never have the latest and greatest due to the nature of technology. Instead I looked at the features, functionality and weight. I landed on the XP. I've been. Very happy with the performance on the hunts to date.
My thinking was I will never have the latest and greatest due to the nature of technology. Instead I looked at the features, functionality and weight. I landed on the XP. I've been. Very happy with the performance on the hunts to date.
Oh forget to mention Iwas able to ID Deer vs Hogs at 650 yards known distance on a hot humid night, not the best conditions for thermal.
Yep 1.6 native is fine.
The Trail's picture in a picture is a nice feature. It allows me to place the first round using increased magnification for the lead sow and use the full screen for the runners. It goes up to 12 but only use 3 or 6 magnification in practice.
I use the scope for hog hunting so if you want something for target shooting you would be better served with a light intensifying nv flavor. For hog hunting or hunting in general thermal has the edge in my opinion.
Hunting un harvested wheat fields all I see are ears on all but the biggest hogs so nv would be useless. I can spot and stalk easier with the thermal and at greater distances. It is almost like cheating. Throw on a suppressor and you can steer them away from cover, more info on tactics than I care to type on my phone.
The Trail's picture in a picture is a nice feature. It allows me to place the first round using increased magnification for the lead sow and use the full screen for the runners. It goes up to 12 but only use 3 or 6 magnification in practice.
I use the scope for hog hunting so if you want something for target shooting you would be better served with a light intensifying nv flavor. For hog hunting or hunting in general thermal has the edge in my opinion.
Hunting un harvested wheat fields all I see are ears on all but the biggest hogs so nv would be useless. I can spot and stalk easier with the thermal and at greater distances. It is almost like cheating. Throw on a suppressor and you can steer them away from cover, more info on tactics than I care to type on my phone.
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If i could get a 1x and wider field of view with just 9x digital mag that would even better. My advice is field of view is more important.
For open fields it works fine but in the woods I would want a wider fov. I say that because I have been using it night and day. (Although I don't stomp around in my woods with out a headlamp because it is way too thick)
For open fields it works fine but in the woods I would want a wider fov. I say that because I have been using it night and day. (Although I don't stomp around in my woods with out a headlamp because it is way too thick)
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I did get a nv(photonis 4G) first but I'm realizing the limitations of that setup as you mentioned. So was planning on selling that set up and freeing up $5k of funds to get a thermal. I know a place that ll sell me the reap ir for about 6500 but they won't budge much on the trail price as apparently the margins on the IRD's are significantly higher.
Kind of hard to beat the reap IR. For actual hunting it really comes down to if you think the extra 2k is worth it.
The reap has a smaller form factor, but if you want to record you will need an external dvr and wires.
The xp50 dvr is internal.
The xp has a stupid long life battery. They claim it is eight hours but i have yet to run it dry.
The Trail firmware updates are a snap with the wifi and a smart phone, benefits that i did not consider.
Pure image goes to the reap ir though.
The reap has a smaller form factor, but if you want to record you will need an external dvr and wires.
The xp50 dvr is internal.
The xp has a stupid long life battery. They claim it is eight hours but i have yet to run it dry.
The Trail firmware updates are a snap with the wifi and a smart phone, benefits that i did not consider.
Pure image goes to the reap ir though.
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Makes sense. When you say 90% of the image quality of reap ir tho - is that only under 100 yards or does extend beyone? A different question - which scope do you think will keep the value the most in a year or two? Pulsar is seemingly coming with a new and better product every year while IRD feels more like the Porsche with just small refinements every year
The 80-90% is at no digital magnification. The more digital magnification the more pronounced the difference between sensors will be between the Trail's 640×480 @ 17 µm and the Reap IR's 640 x 480 BAE 12µm will be.
Then again the Battery life is also a big deal for actual use with the Reap IR having an estimated life of 1.5hrs vs the Trail's est. 8hrs.
As for resale I do not have a crystal ball. As you know the prices are dropping, and in the Pulsar's case they came out with a new higher quality thermal with the xp vs the previous xd model at a lower price.
When IRD was bought by Trjicon there were no changes that i am aware of but they increased the price by a couple of hundred dollars.
Then again the Battery life is also a big deal for actual use with the Reap IR having an estimated life of 1.5hrs vs the Trail's est. 8hrs.
As for resale I do not have a crystal ball. As you know the prices are dropping, and in the Pulsar's case they came out with a new higher quality thermal with the xp vs the previous xd model at a lower price.
When IRD was bought by Trjicon there were no changes that i am aware of but they increased the price by a couple of hundred dollars.
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Just an FYI I am an end user, not in any way associated with any company.
My best advice is rent each one for a weekend before making a purchase decision. Search for thermal scope rentals to find the best price and availability.
My best advice is rent each one for a weekend before making a purchase decision. Search for thermal scope rentals to find the best price and availability.
I cant comment on using either but I will say that the internal recorder/long life battery is a big selling point for me. I have an old model 38 and its perfectly fine for what I do with it (just shooting critters at the ranch) but having wires to both to an external battery and recorder in my stock pack is less than ideal. The stock pack was a big upgrade over having them bungied to the rifles forearm but having that all streamlined and internal is a huge plus to me.
I was pissed when I saw the trail series with it all built in come out right after I had bought all of the junk to make my old 38 do the same thing but I still came out a couple thousand less with only a minor inconvenience.
I was pissed when I saw the trail series with it all built in come out right after I had bought all of the junk to make my old 38 do the same thing but I still came out a couple thousand less with only a minor inconvenience.
im not too into the recording stuff so that's not a huge deal breaker for me but running an hr and half and having to change a battery in the middle of a hunt would be a huge pain. Surprised people haven't complained about it as much. Sounds like the xp is the winner! Hopefully they don't make it go obsolete too soon!
It depends on what youre doing. The xd38 has 2 cr123s and they would go out in 3 hours (1.5 hour per battery) and if youre scouting in a vehicle its not so bad as you can just grab a few more from your bag in the backseat but if I was out hiking around having to be weary of them the entire time in the tall grass was a pain.
But honestly it is a just a twist cover and 2 tiny batteries. Its not like I was pouring concrete or anything actually difficult so it wasnt the end of the world. I could have them swapped in like 45 seconds total in the dark but then you have the warm up period of constant nuking etc which compared to never having to do it... well its first world problems.
But now I have a battery that lasts up to 20 hours supposedly (I never drained it completely)... I charge it once a month or so just as good practice.
I will say being able to go back and view the hunts with a recorder or on the computer is very satisfying, plus other people love to watch them. I went out with some cousins to shoot rabbits one night and we watched the videos of everyone missing what they claimed were hits for much longer than the actual hunt lasted.
"I know for a FACT I hit him square in the head"
"Well the proof is in the pudding and everyone just watched him causally hop off" LOL
I think Mindreader is prepping to be a hog hunt guide ... so I agree and think his guidees might appreciate seeing some video of their activities ... it is another layer and you don't have to add it at the start but it is something to have on the roadmap.
As to changing batteries ... I practice changing them in the dark in the house ... do it 100 times ... and it is easy and you won't even think about it ... I would prioritize video over a battery pack as long as the battery life is over 2 hours ... For most of the thermal scopes I've used I have to change the batteries once in a dusk to dawn outing ...
I do have a battery pack for the ODIN thermal I wear on my head ... and it is great .. like spife ... I charge it monthly and it is usually at around 80% even then ... without the battery pack the 1 C123 only lasts about 90m in warm season or 45m cool season.
As to changing batteries ... I practice changing them in the dark in the house ... do it 100 times ... and it is easy and you won't even think about it ... I would prioritize video over a battery pack as long as the battery life is over 2 hours ... For most of the thermal scopes I've used I have to change the batteries once in a dusk to dawn outing ...
I do have a battery pack for the ODIN thermal I wear on my head ... and it is great .. like spife ... I charge it monthly and it is usually at around 80% even then ... without the battery pack the 1 C123 only lasts about 90m in warm season or 45m cool season.
I put a rechargeable battery in my stock pack and the REAP-IR will last a long long time with one.
Ah I heard the rechargeables tend to damage the unit as there's usually an initial surge of power when using those. Sounds like that's not an issue over time?
LOL too funny! I think I just need to find someone who can demo the two units with me without having the pressure of buying right after testing. Luckily I do have the white phosphor nv to do some damage in the meantime. Completely off topic question - can any of the thermal weapon sights be used for home inspections such as detecting leaks? I know the FLIR ones can but not sure if that applies to TWS.
Been using one for maybe 2 years that way. No issues so far. Son uses a Pulsar made battery pack on his Pulsar XD-19 also.
Does IRD make an interchangeable objective lens like xp does that'll bring the native mag down? 2.5x really limits FOV I assume?
If you send in a mk2/3 Hunter TEO will upgrade your lens for you for a price ... I suppose you could have it "downgraded" as well ... 19mm, 35mm or 60mm
For me, if I am on my chicken coop patrols ... roaming around the 5 acre "human area" of our property ... I like the ODIN on the .22lr for widest FOV .. but then I am almost always shooting under 100yds ... and usually even scanning within 100yds as we live along a creek and this area is wooded.
But out in the more open pastures, the 2.5x on the mk3 is a great spotter, then I'm usually spotting critters 100-500yds out or farther ... sometimes I wish I had the 60mm lens for distant scanning, but other times I'm glad I have the 35mm for closer in. I can hit 2x for the digital, but there is no 0.5x digital on these units.
1.0x 24 degrees 42 yds at 100yds ODIN
2.5x 12 degrees 21 yds at 100yds mk2/3 35mm
4.5x 7 degrees 12 yds at 100yds mk3 60mm
So if you hunt mostly i close terrain, then more FOV/less mag is good ... the more open your terrain, the more mag is ok. But for night work, I don't like to go above 3x native. I had a Zeus Pro which was 4x and it was too much for me ... it was a great long range scanner, but for me it was not a great shooting scope ... too much mag.
If I only had one scope I'd want it on the 2.0 to 3.0 range ...
For me, if I am on my chicken coop patrols ... roaming around the 5 acre "human area" of our property ... I like the ODIN on the .22lr for widest FOV .. but then I am almost always shooting under 100yds ... and usually even scanning within 100yds as we live along a creek and this area is wooded.
But out in the more open pastures, the 2.5x on the mk3 is a great spotter, then I'm usually spotting critters 100-500yds out or farther ... sometimes I wish I had the 60mm lens for distant scanning, but other times I'm glad I have the 35mm for closer in. I can hit 2x for the digital, but there is no 0.5x digital on these units.
1.0x 24 degrees 42 yds at 100yds ODIN
2.5x 12 degrees 21 yds at 100yds mk2/3 35mm
4.5x 7 degrees 12 yds at 100yds mk3 60mm
So if you hunt mostly i close terrain, then more FOV/less mag is good ... the more open your terrain, the more mag is ok. But for night work, I don't like to go above 3x native. I had a Zeus Pro which was 4x and it was too much for me ... it was a great long range scanner, but for me it was not a great shooting scope ... too much mag.
If I only had one scope I'd want it on the 2.0 to 3.0 range ...
thanks for all the advice!!
I've got the REAP and the XP50, I would say the XP might be 75% of what the REAP pushes out regarding contrast and clarity. Sure Pulsar does have some very nice options in the XP line like the onboard recording, integral battery, etc. However right now my personal choice would be the REAP. Also we offer battery kit adapters for the Trijicon REAP, Patrol, and Hunters that will last hours in subzero temps.
If you need any more info or insight using either of these products you can shoot me a PM.
If you need any more info or insight using either of these products you can shoot me a PM.
As an update - I actually bought both of these. Ended up selling the reap and kept th xp50. To me they both accomplish ththe exact same goal of killing hogs and the xp50 cost me $2k less and have all those options i love without the damn wires and extra weight associated with lugging those accessories around on the reap. You’ll appreciate what I’m talking about when using it in the field. If you don’t care about recording at all then the reap may be a good choice.
I had a IR Hunter MK II (similar internals to Reap IR) and a Pulsar XD38A. The difference in "picture" quality between the two is miles apart. The original price was $2K apart. When looking thru the Pulsar, it seems like it should cost less than $1K.
NOTE: "had" IR Hunter MK II because it has been upgraded to a MK III. Absolutely love this thermal!!!!
NOTE: "had" IR Hunter MK II because it has been upgraded to a MK III. Absolutely love this thermal!!!!
Hum, I've seen several people say Pulsars have poor images, but I've also seen several people say they have amazing images. So, either image quality is in the eyes of the beholder, or the Pulsars might have a variance in qualilty.
I've had four:
Apex 38mm LCD
Apex 50mm LCD
Apex 50mm OLED
Apex 75mm LCD
The Apex 38mm and 50mm LCD have great images, around 80% of the IRD/TEO ... but the 50mm OLED and 75mm LCD were disappointing and I sent those back.
I ran the 50mm LCD side by side with Zeus 75mm 3x 640(30) and let 4 neighbors look thru them and all thought the Apex had a better image. I was surprised. I actually didn't think so, I thought it was mixed. Mostly the Apex was better inside 300yds because it auto-nuced the sh^t out of itself in the 1st 3 minutes, but the Zeus was better beyond 300yds. Noting this, I starting nucing the sh^t out of ALL my thermals in the first 5m and all images improved.
I've had four:
Apex 38mm LCD
Apex 50mm LCD
Apex 50mm OLED
Apex 75mm LCD
The Apex 38mm and 50mm LCD have great images, around 80% of the IRD/TEO ... but the 50mm OLED and 75mm LCD were disappointing and I sent those back.
I ran the 50mm LCD side by side with Zeus 75mm 3x 640(30) and let 4 neighbors look thru them and all thought the Apex had a better image. I was surprised. I actually didn't think so, I thought it was mixed. Mostly the Apex was better inside 300yds because it auto-nuced the sh^t out of itself in the 1st 3 minutes, but the Zeus was better beyond 300yds. Noting this, I starting nucing the sh^t out of ALL my thermals in the first 5m and all images improved.
After trijicon took over the IR line, prices skyrocketed. Good for them I guess. While the difference in core sensor resolution is supposedly 30%, for the price difference and substantial extras the pulsar xp50 offers ive got one ordered up. Gran t ed im just an every other weekend hunter. Inside of 300 yards seems golden.
