Rear Adm. Collin P. Green, commander of NSWC

AvsFan

AvsFan

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Oct 2, 2011
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#1
Gent’s,

Curious to what your thoughts are on this directive from the top brass. I’ve never served, but wondering how you guys that have served feel about this?

“WASHINGTON – The Navy’s top SEAL has ordered Naval Special Warfare Command to adopt stringent grooming and uniform standards required throughout the rest of the service, telling his top commanders “that a portion of this force is ethically misaligned with our culture.”...more at link below.

AvsFan :unsure:

Link
image.jpg
 
#3
I think it’s a reaction to a lot of negative press coming from the SEAL community. He may be right, while not a regular unit, there is some obvious issues in the community (and not just the Teams). When units or sports teams are struggling what’s the first thing you do? You go back to the fundamentals. In the military grooming is a basic a fundamental. Maybe it seems petty and insignificant but the loose standards applied toward the special operators is a privilege of their job and makes them special. Take that away and it reminds them that they are no better than the swabby on an oil freighter. It might be time for some humble pie.
 
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#5
Hi,

Kinda goes back to the old saying of "Take care of the little things and the big things never develop".

The smallest form of discipline, ORDER and CONTROL in the military is grooming and uniform standards; so the tighter that is regulated, the more "in check" things appear.
Right now the NSWC Community is in need of an appearance redo.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
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#8
THEIS said:
Hi,

Kinda goes back to the old saying of "Take care of the little things and the big things never develop".

The smallest form of discipline, ORDER and CONTROL in the military is grooming and uniform standards; so the tighter that is regulated, the more "in check" things appear.
Right now the NSWC Community is in need of an appearance redo.

Sincerely,
Theis
Click to expand...


I would have thought they were required to keep up grooming to the uniform standard unless deployed and it was necessary to keep a beard as part of the "camouflage".

I fully agree on holding them to the same standards as an E1 when it comes to appearance.
Only reason I could find justifiable is for truly needing to blend for a particular mission. If they're wearing BDU's blending in somewhere isn't an issue anyways.


But I've never been in, so I may be way off base on what I would expect from working around and with service personnel on various bases.
 
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#10
The beards are to blend and for the reapect of Islamic allies . Even Army SF have beards . A retired Army SF relayed a story about an engagement in Afghanistan.
He told about an engagement with Taliban . The Taliban fighters had radioed locals for support anz the locals asked who are you fighting . Supposedly the Taliban answered " the bearded American Soldiers ". The local fighters respoded "we can't help you . Guess the beard gets respect .
 
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#11
Alphatreedog said:
The beards are to blend and for the reapect of Islamic allies . Even Army SF have beards . A retired Army SF relayed a story about an engagement in Afghanistan.
He told about an engagement with Taliban . The Taliban fighters had radioed locals for support anz the locals asked who are you fighting . Supposedly the Taliban answered " the bearded American Soldiers ". The local fighters respoded "we can't help you . Guess the beard gets respect .
Click to expand...

After 18 years of war the Afghans know who is who and who is capable of what. The beard doesn’t have anything to do with it. All it means is that the bearded Soldiers are SF and the Muj knows he would rather pick on transport units most days. They know how to recognize a SOPMOD rifle and a mini gun too. They know different unit insignias by sight. One unit clustered broomsticks around their M2 barrels to make them look like miniguns. Incidents decreased.
 
#12
This ruling is probably going to cut down the number of those that seek serving as special forces. More contractors will end up getting the assignments due to a shortage of SF personnel.
 
#15
gigamortis said:
This ruling is probably going to cut down the number of those that seek serving as special forces. More contractors will end up getting the assignments due to a shortage of SF personnel.
Click to expand...

If the ability to grow a fucking beard and have tattoos that a uniform doesn't cover is the only thing that draws someone to the teams, do you realy think that's the person who needs to be on the teams? The appearance doesn't make the bad ass....the bad ass makes people fear the appearance, whatever it may be. These are supposed to be the cream of the crop, the most disciplined, highest trained, hardest to stop individual asset the department of the navy has at their service. If they can't get their shit together and conduct themselves as such, maybe they should be given a hard slap on the dick that will make them remember what they are.
 
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#16
Sixfivesavage said:
If the ability to grow a fucking beard and have tattoos that a uniform doesn't cover is the only thing that draws someone to the teams, do you realy think that's the person who needs to be on the teams? The appearance doesn't make the bad ass....the bad ass makes people fear the appearance, whatever it may be. These are supposed to be the cream of the crop, the most disciplined, highest trained, hardest to stop individual asset the department of the navy has at their service. If they can't get their shit together and conduct themselves as such, maybe they should be given a hard slap on the dick that will make them remember what they are.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Jocko Willink is one of the scariest mother fuckers I’ve ever met and he’s not a single tattoo and never had a beard but I would not fuck with him.
 
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#17
As a kid, as far back as I can remember, I wanted to go to the Naval Academy and commission and make my way to become a SEAL. As I matured through elementary school and into middle school I came to the realization I am not a great swimmer. As I got older and saw the things that were happening with the teams, how knowledge of them became widespread and they appeared to no longer be the quiet professionals they once were, I lost the desire to travel that path. That was almost 30 years ago....I can't say that the progression to what they appear to be now has made me regret not persuing a career in NSW. That is a shame. It's shameful that a kid could see it happening that long ago. I know a volunteer service is at its core a snippet of its country's citizenry but this shit starts from the top down. Officers were made and put in places they aren't fit for, just as people are given jobs in the civilian world that shouldn't have them, they make wrong decisions, even just basic day to day bullshit decisions, they give other fucking idiots jobs that they shouldnt have and then we have a breakdown in leadership and it allows this shit to happen. Big military is guilty of it and any specwar team is just ripe to become an amplified snippet of the same. They need to unfuck themselves yesterday if they want to remain the pointy end of the speer and enjoy being top dogs.
 
#21
I'm not Navy, but my discharge reads Department of the Navy; a Marine.

Marines obey orders, and so do Sailors. Good thing, too. Can't have all that firepower rolling loose on deck.

Special orders require unique obedience. If and when, orders get overridden by the guys on the ground, of necessity. That's what Courts Martial are for; finding innocence and guilt; and not all orders stand the test of Courts Martial, either.

There are few Admirals in Fox holes. Few enough, anyway.

Greg
 
#28
RyanScott said:
@Docsherm
Click to expand...


This is the Navy treating their SEAL as they should. The entire problem is that the majority of the SEALs have never served in the regular Navy. If you look at Special Operations in the Army like 90% came from the big Army and have that basic understanding of the military.

MARSOC had the same issue at the beginning giving an E3 all kinds of power that NO E3 should ever have.

Yes they are both highly trained but many of them lack the basic real world experience needed to successfully operate in SOF.




And FYI..... the grooming standards have to do with not being able to ID people. That and sunglasses are required by the USASOC PAO when engaging with any press.
 
#31
And FYI..... the grooming standards have to do with not being able to ID people. That and sunglasses are required by the USASOC PAO when engaging with any press.
Click to expand...

There are several good reasons for beards, most of them are bullshit. Hint: If Rangers can hit 3 targets a night for 90 nights without a beard, SEALs could too. But if you’re getting coffee at Green Beans and you see a cute E-3, how she gonna believe you’re a SEAL if you got no beard and no patches?
 
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#33
I mostly agree. I spent 10 years in the Navy. Didn't see them much when I was deployed, but as a command rep for a few programs on shore duty, I had the opportunity to interact with them a fair amount. I was also under the impression that they had to obey standard grooming regulations unless their post required them not to, but that just wasn't followed. They had their own building and treated it like a clubhouse. Every member that showed up to my command was supposed to check in with me when they got there, and most did, but there was a good amount that I had to go chase down because they simply blew it off. It actually came back to bite us in the ass a couple times. For a couple of the years, I was teaching the E5-E6 leadership class on base... actually saw a couple of them get sent home to shave during that time haha.

I do have the utmost respect for what the teams do... but it seems like they generally feel like they are "above the law" so to speak, and it's getting a little out of control. There are a lot of guys that follow the rules and act like sailors, but on the other hand there are those that just don't want to live like they're still a sailor. Like some others have said, a beard isn't the thing allowing them to accomplish their mission... the same as machinist's mates aren't allowed to walk around with a tool belt on covered in grease.
 
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#35
RyanScott said:
There are several good reasons for beards, most of them are bullshit. Hint: If Rangers can hit 3 targets a night for 90 nights without a beard, SEALs could too. But if you’re getting coffee at Green Beans and you see a cute E-3, how she gonna believe you’re a SEAL if you got no beard and no patches?
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, for how long did you serve in the Navy and what was your rating or designator (if you were an officer)?
 
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#36
AvsFan said:
Gent’s,

Curious to what your thoughts are on this directive from the top brass. I’ve never served, but wondering how you guys that have served feel about this?

“WASHINGTON – The Navy’s top SEAL has ordered Naval Special Warfare Command to adopt stringent grooming and uniform standards required throughout the rest of the service, telling his top commanders “that a portion of this force is ethically misaligned with our culture.”...more at link below.

AvsFan :unsure:

Link
image.jpg
Click to expand...

What a retarded uniform...………...for the whole fleet.
 
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