Advanced Marksmanship Rear bag design and usage

[Stubb]

I got in a TAB rear bag yesterday and am liking it a lot after some dry fire practice that evening. It's all in the position of the strap. You hold the bag so that the strap runs vertically and slip your four fingers through it. For right handers, your thumb then sits vertically on the left side of the stock, and your other fingers pinch the stock from the other side. You can then apply rearward pressure on the stock with the palm. The bag sits perfectly in the cutout in front of the toe of my AI's stock, and I feel like I have very good control of the rifle. We'll see how it actually works at the range this weekend.

My two other rear bags are shaped like tubes. One strap runs across the diameter of the end of the tube. The other runs the height of the tube down one side. I can hook the bag against the stock cutout and apply rearward pressure, but it doesn't feel as positive as with the TAB bag.

I'd be interested in hearing how people use their rear bags, particularly if they prefer the tubular style to the TAB design.

—Andreas

 

[223man]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

When using "tube" style bags I lay it on the ground with the strap(strap that runs from top and bottom)on top. So all I have to do is slip my hand in the strap and rotate my hand up. So its the rotation of my hand that fine tunes my elevation and I can still pinch the stock with thumb and for finger. I hope this made sense,lol.

 

[Stubb]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Thanks for the suggestions, which I experimented with during dry fire. I'll get some pictures taken and posted this or tomorrow evening.

—Andreas

 

[VKC]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Tube style bags are nice if you need the extra elevation, you can "stand" it on end longwise vertical. I pull the bag into my stock backward into my shoulder with my non-dominant hand, and use a combination of that and squeezing the bag to adjust height. Plus, I put the weight of my head on the cheekpiece to stabilize the rifle during recoil, and to adjust height.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Since the ideal position begins by bringing the stock to the head rather than the head to the stock, it becomes clear that a rear bag may not accomodate support of the rifle. Therefore, learning how to control the rifle without such an aid is desirable. Certainly, without the rear bag, the stock to shoulder relationship can be manipulated in the pocket formed in the shoulder to where ever it's appropriate for the height of the position.

 

[223man]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

I agree with Sterling Shooter. When I set up my position I do it with out the bag first. That way I know my NPA and everything is true. And then I will bring in the bag(with my support hand)to support my proper position. I have found this method works for me the best. And that might just be a product of me being fairly new to precision shooting also,I don't know.

 

[Dollman]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

I have the TAB gear squishey little near flat bag and the TAB Gear squishy little "tube" bag and use both. Just depends on whats comfortable at the time. Sometimes I don't need to use a bag.

 

[Stubb]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Here's a picture of my hand position using the square TAB bag:

And the tubular Red Tac bag:

I can find my NPA with either bag, but my position feels more solid using the TAB bag since it lets my fingers wrap around the stock. I'm wondering if there's something that I could be doing differently with the Red Tac bag.

I'm still fighting some bipod hop to the left, which I think is coming from a combination of cheek weld pressure to right on the stock and uneven pressure on the rear bag.

—Andreas

 

[mobius38]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

I love my TAB bag! I got a few of them. Its nice to have a few differencet size bags.

 

[akmike]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Just got a TAB gear rear bag myself. I had been using Tacticals which I liked but the Tab gear bag does so feel more solid.

 

[mrjimsfc]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since the ideal position begins by bringing the stock to the head rather than the head to the stock, it becomes clear that a rear bag may not accomodate support of the rifle. Therefore, learning how to control the rifle without such an aid is desirable. Certainly, without the rear bag, the stock to shoulder relationship can be manipulated in the pocket formed in the shoulder to where ever it's appropriate for the height of the position. </div></div>
Absolutely correct! The rear bag serves only to lessen the effects of fatigue of holding the proper position. I know we all like to think we're tough but when you begin to tire the wobble starts. The rear bag lets us last a little longer. Get the one that helps you the most.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrjimsfc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since the ideal position begins by bringing the stock to the head rather than the head to the stock, it becomes clear that a rear bag may not accommodate support of the rifle. Therefore, learning how to control the rifle without such an aid is desirable. Certainly, without the rear bag, the stock to shoulder relationship can be manipulated in the pocket formed in the shoulder to where ever it's appropriate for the height of the position. </div></div>
Absolutely correct! The rear bag serves only to lessen the effects of fatigue of holding the proper position. I know we all like to think we're tough but when you begin to tire the wobble starts. The rear bag lets us last a little longer. Get the one that helps you the most.</div></div>

Just to clarify, a proper position will use both bone and artificial support. Artificial support can be sandbags, loop or hasty sling, bipod, whatever. The idea is to have muscular relaxation; relaxation meaning less movement (wobble).

 

[HPLLC]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrjimsfc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since the ideal position begins by bringing the stock to the head rather than the head to the stock, it becomes clear that a rear bag may not accomodate support of the rifle. Therefore, learning how to control the rifle without such an aid is desirable. Certainly, without the rear bag, the stock to shoulder relationship can be manipulated in the pocket formed in the shoulder to where ever it's appropriate for the height of the position. </div></div>
Absolutely correct! The rear bag serves only to lessen the effects of fatigue of holding the proper position. I know we all like to think we're tough but when you begin to tire the wobble starts. The rear bag lets us last a little longer. Get the one that helps you the most. </div></div>


The rear bag isolates pulse which would otherwise cause the rifle to constantly bob up and down ~1/2MOA on target. More than any other thing, that's what it does best. Muscle fatigue or not, I'd like to see a guy that could group as well without a sandsock, as with one.

They double as forend supports, binocular rests, spotting scope rests, etc, so the sand sock is a pretty useful tool- one of the most useful tools a military sniper has- or certainly one of his more often used tools. (Using military sniper here, because the precision shooter might never use it for anything but a butt-stock support for all I know. I'm not as familiar with what defines "precision shooter").

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Can folks squeeze (modulate the position of the fill) in those square bags?

I shot without a bag for years and just hooked a thumb in a shirt collar. A bag is a good tool to have, but not necessary. One thing I really like it for is to stuff under an ankle or a knee in order to build elevation into a seated position. However if I am on foot in the woods and only taking a few shots in any one position, I don't general carry it - weighs more than it is worth as a shooting aid and 'soft' supportive surfaces can be created with my ruck and the contents thereof.

IMHO the best bag designs have a fair amount of room to allow one to modulate the fill to the widest degree possible.


Good luck

 

[JC Steel]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

andreas my hand position is almost identical to yours!! Well done, it has been working for me and feel very comfortable.

 

[TexasClassIII]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

This may be a dumb question, but do shooters in the armed forces usually use rear bags?

I mean, normally, in the field, in Afghanistan, are US forces bringing along a rear bag?

Sorry if it's a dumb question, but I'm having a mental disconnect imagining this..

Parker

 

[Viper65fr]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Sorry if it's in french but I made this video to help french shooter to discover the proper use of rear bag.

Expecting it may interest you too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrEQfhY4CVE

 

[Christopher Rance]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

Yes we use rear bags. I know of a few urban hide sites I've set up were just like shooting off a bench at a rifle range. I did a ton of shooting of a tripod, so you couldn't use a bag, but anytime I could settle into a solid position, I took FULL advantage of it.

 

[mission_fail]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

If you didn't know it you can use a rear bag while supporting your rifle with a tripod if you bring your strong leg up (so foot is resting on ground). Place the rear bag on your thigh and in most cases you can use it to fill the gap between the bottom of the rifle stock and your thigh.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrjimsfc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since the ideal position begins by bringing the stock to the head rather than the head to the stock, it becomes clear that a rear bag may not accommodate support of the rifle. Therefore, learning how to control the rifle without such an aid is desirable. Certainly, without the rear bag, the stock to shoulder relationship can be manipulated in the pocket formed in the shoulder to where ever it's appropriate for the height of the position. </div></div>
Absolutely correct! The rear bag serves only to lessen the effects of fatigue of holding the proper position. I know we all like to think we're tough but when you begin to tire the wobble starts. The rear bag lets us last a little longer. Get the one that helps you the most. </div></div>


The rear bag isolates pulse which would otherwise cause the rifle to constantly bob up and down ~1/2MOA on target. More than any other thing, that's what it does best. Muscle fatigue or not, I'd like to see a guy that could group as well without a sandsock, as with one.

They double as forend supports, binocular rests, spotting scope rests, etc, so the sand sock is a pretty useful tool- one of the most useful tools a military sniper has- or certainly one of his more often used tools. (Using military sniper here, because the precision shooter might never use it for anything but a butt-stock support for all I know. I'm not as familiar with what defines "precision shooter"). </div></div> The rear bag is no doubt a means to making a prone position steady; yet, it is not required to eliminate the rifle from as you said, bobbing up and down. What the rear bag does in every instance of its use however is make the shooter focus on accomodating it rather than focus on building the best position. That's to say, the bag is a problem in that it determines the height of the position thereby forcing a position which may be too low. Only when the rifle butt is brought to the head is the correct height of the position assured. This however may make the rear bag useless.]

I've shot many LR and MR cleans with a vise like position built with just a loop sling support. The key is to relax into whatever support you've got. My suggestion, learn how to get good hits without the aid of a rear bag. It is not a substitute for a well built prone position. In fact, learn how to build a steady position with bone alone.

 

[Shoot 1st]

Re: Rear bag design and usage

yea, its defiantly not just a rear bag, there are many other uses for a shooting rest.