Yeah, my Howa 6.5 CM shoots on average 0.7-.08 MOA at 100 meters if I use a rear bag. Unfortunately I am not allowed to use one during my club match this week. I tried today to shoot without a rear bag and my groups opened up to 1.0-1.2 MOA. I just cannot hold my crosshair in place any more while shootng 12lbs rifle without a rear bag.
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Range Report Rear bags banned during club match
- Thread starter Oldmauser
- Start date
Get a glove for your support hand and sew a rear bag into it.
Rather than try to skirt the rules, why not practice more and become proficient at it. I hate suggestions that are gaming/cheating. If everyone follows the rule then you are all on an even playing field. If one guy has a sling that basically has a rear bag sewn in and games the rules and wins do you really want to be that guy?
Depends on the reason for the rule, I come from USPSA if you aren’t gaming it your not winning. The first 5 minutes if any stage is trying to find out where the stage builder f’d up to gain that 2 second edge.
If it’s a safety reason it makes sense, if its to see who has the largest hands it’s stupid.
A midget won’t stand a chance against Andre the giant.
If it’s a safety reason it makes sense, if its to see who has the largest hands it’s stupid.
A midget won’t stand a chance against Andre the giant.
The problem isn't the implement; it's the rule.
Sounds like somebody's being a little tinpot dictator and impressing everyone with their importance. Demanding that people shoot full out match guns without proper support is just plain sophomoric.
I'd shun their match and not be reticent about why.
Greg
Sounds like somebody's being a little tinpot dictator and impressing everyone with their importance. Demanding that people shoot full out match guns without proper support is just plain sophomoric.
I'd shun their match and not be reticent about why.
Greg
Its a local club match....not nationals......no need to get bent out of shape, youre not winning anything anyways.
everyone is effected the same by the rule....roll with it and make yourself a better shooter.
everyone is effected the same by the rule....roll with it and make yourself a better shooter.
I'll buy that. But I still think it's a poor mandate. If all you have available in a reasonable distance is club matches, as I do; it makes a difference.
Still, it's my choice, my problem.
Still, it's my choice, my problem.
Don't shoot that dumb match, or shoot it with your bag and take your zero. Sounds like the MD is from another discipline and thinks he knows the best way (his way). Don't waste you time and your money.
oooor just shoot it without a bag and expand your skill set.......perhaps maybe ask the MD why that rule is in place?......could be he has a good reason you havent thought of......
...man a lot of yall could benefit from some chill....
If it’s just a no rear bag match, I’d shoot it.
If it’s no bag at all and shot off props and such, I wouldn’t shoot it unless the targets are of appropriate size or the time limit is pretty large.
But I’m sure that guy everyone on the internet knows with the .270 that can run circles around the comp rifles will show up to this match and show everyone how it’s done.
If it’s no bag at all and shot off props and such, I wouldn’t shoot it unless the targets are of appropriate size or the time limit is pretty large.
But I’m sure that guy everyone on the internet knows with the .270 that can run circles around the comp rifles will show up to this match and show everyone how it’s done.
I agree, if you don't like the rules don't shoot the match.
BUT...when I set up a match or a stage, I set it up to challenge the shooters in different ways. I do matches where the times are extremely tight with decent sized targets; I do matches where the targets are extremely small but times are generous. I have done a match where you shoot the entire match with a 100 yard zero and cannot touch your turrets. I have done a match where everyone shoots every stage from a tripod. I've done a match where you shoot in field conditions with obstacles that are native to the environment. I've done a match where you dial one yardage and shoot the entire match with that elevation. I've done "no bag and one bag" matches. I've done "support side" only matches. I've also done matches where you can use anything you brought. I've also done matches with stages that use some combination of the above and/ or include shooting offhand, kneeling or sitting positions. Again, the purpose is to make each match different and to challenge shooters; in their fundamentals, their time management, their shooting precision, their use of a scope by holding/reading the reticle, their ability to adapt physically and mentally while taking them out of their comfort zones. etc..
Our matches are for fun. Bragging rights are the prize for some, while for others, it's being exposed to their limitations and using those limitations as challenges to be overcome.
BUT...when I set up a match or a stage, I set it up to challenge the shooters in different ways. I do matches where the times are extremely tight with decent sized targets; I do matches where the targets are extremely small but times are generous. I have done a match where you shoot the entire match with a 100 yard zero and cannot touch your turrets. I have done a match where everyone shoots every stage from a tripod. I've done a match where you shoot in field conditions with obstacles that are native to the environment. I've done a match where you dial one yardage and shoot the entire match with that elevation. I've done "no bag and one bag" matches. I've done "support side" only matches. I've also done matches where you can use anything you brought. I've also done matches with stages that use some combination of the above and/ or include shooting offhand, kneeling or sitting positions. Again, the purpose is to make each match different and to challenge shooters; in their fundamentals, their time management, their shooting precision, their use of a scope by holding/reading the reticle, their ability to adapt physically and mentally while taking them out of their comfort zones. etc..
Our matches are for fun. Bragging rights are the prize for some, while for others, it's being exposed to their limitations and using those limitations as challenges to be overcome.
The guys over at Horus pay you for that one to advertise the "usefulness" of their reticles?
I wish that were the case. LOL
Personally, I prefer the more-or-less "standard" Christmas tree reticles; something like the Vortex EBR-2C as the Horus reticles are a distraction for my old eyes. The funny thing about using reticles, many shooters limit themselves when starting out by not learning about their scopes and how to use/read their subtensions. I work with new shooters at our range and give an 6-8 hour scope seminar where they learn how and why to do a "tall target" test and then use that information in their ballistic app to correct for deviations as well as how to read their reticle and shoot/hold to a point of impact for corrections. They shoot drills to give them real-time experience while reinforcing what is presented in discussion. One drill I use for example; I'll spin their elevation turret an unknown amount and then tape over it and have them shoot one shot at a clay target on a berm. They then have to see and read their POI, hold that read on the target and press off another shot at the clay. Once they have a grasp of that, I'll zero their elevation turret and spin/tape their windage turret and have them do the same drill at another clay. Once they've got a grasp on that, I'll spin and tape BOTH turrets and give them a go at the clays. Needless to say, at the end of the day, they have had a serious introduction into how to use/read a reticle and hold to a POI.
Not trying to create too much of a thread drift here but my point is, when shooters come across a stage or a match where something is out of their comfort zone, they stumble unless they have found, through previous experience/failure, their shortcomings and practiced. If you only attend matches that are cookie cutter without stages to challenge you, how do you learn what to work on to become a better, more well rounded shooter.
I’ve shot quite a few times with just a fist under the bag rider.
Not difficult.
Not difficult.
I don’t see what the problem is or why anyone would be upset about this. You should be using competitions as a means to get out of your comfort zone. Some of y’all are sounding like the kids in class that had a week to write your paper but are asking for an extension on the day it’s due.
OP,
Look at this as an opportunity to improve your capability behind the rifle. Go, have fun, and stop stressing about a game that is supposed to be fun. Best of luck!
OP,
Look at this as an opportunity to improve your capability behind the rifle. Go, have fun, and stop stressing about a game that is supposed to be fun. Best of luck!
If it’s just the rear bag, meh, no big deal.
If it’s all bags, then that’s just another gimmick. Just like I don’t like swinging type props that give you a huge wobble zone.
The only time I use a rear bag is during load development or When shooting groups on paper at a match...the rest of the time including matches I shoot off my hand with a creedmoor sport glove....our varmint match is NO REAR BAGS.
If I had to shoot off my bare hand no big deal I drop my bipod 1 notch....learn to shoot off your hand it’s not hard.
If I had to shoot off my bare hand no big deal I drop my bipod 1 notch....learn to shoot off your hand it’s not hard.
Boo freaking hoo. Anything that makes it more about the Indian and less about the arrow (can I even say that anymore?) is legit in my book.
I have been known to toss my bag to the side because it wasn't working quite right, and proceed to shoot the highest stage score.
Don't let your gear limit you. If you can't shoot without a bag, practice without a bag until you can.
I've salvaged many points on stages because I quit wasting time trying to get my gear right and just started back at basics and got shots off. Sometimes all the gear in the world just slows you down and distracts you.
Don't let your gear limit you. If you can't shoot without a bag, practice without a bag until you can.
I've salvaged many points on stages because I quit wasting time trying to get my gear right and just started back at basics and got shots off. Sometimes all the gear in the world just slows you down and distracts you.
You’ll be fine without a rear bag, just use your fist for support. Sounds like your groups don’t open up that much and I’m sure the targets will be 2-3 moa in size. Sounds like a challenge you can learn from to me.
Ok. The 10-ring is 2cm. To be in the top 5 of the match you have to score between 95-100 points. This means that I would have to produce a 10-shot group of 0.8 moa or less. This is my objective here.
I have the gamechanger and I am training with this.
Here are my problems:
1. The rifle is supported in the front area by the gamechanger. I cannot stabilise the crosshair at 10-ring. I try to pull the trigger only when my crosshair is exactly at 10-ring, but I am still wobblying as a matter of fact.
2. Trigger is set at 3lbs ( factory howa trigger). I am doing some dryfiring and I noticed that the strength needed to pull the trigger changes the Point of Aim practically every time. No matter what my crosshair always moves even with the correct trigger pull.
3. I am using forehand to stabilise the buttstock in my shoulder pocket. The fist below the buttstock is not enough as the buttstock is way higher over the bench's surface to make it work.
4. I can get a 4 shot group of 0.5 moa but the next one will be a flyer and it ruins the whole group. I cannot produce a solid sub-moa 10-shot group.
5. It's a rookie problem but this is exactly where I am right now.
I have the gamechanger and I am training with this.
Here are my problems:
1. The rifle is supported in the front area by the gamechanger. I cannot stabilise the crosshair at 10-ring. I try to pull the trigger only when my crosshair is exactly at 10-ring, but I am still wobblying as a matter of fact.
2. Trigger is set at 3lbs ( factory howa trigger). I am doing some dryfiring and I noticed that the strength needed to pull the trigger changes the Point of Aim practically every time. No matter what my crosshair always moves even with the correct trigger pull.
3. I am using forehand to stabilise the buttstock in my shoulder pocket. The fist below the buttstock is not enough as the buttstock is way higher over the bench's surface to make it work.
4. I can get a 4 shot group of 0.5 moa but the next one will be a flyer and it ruins the whole group. I cannot produce a solid sub-moa 10-shot group.
5. It's a rookie problem but this is exactly where I am right now.
Unless this was the only match in my area, I’d pass.
Otherwise all you’re learning to do is free recoil off a bag.
Right. I will tune up that trigger soon. I think it's probably all as far as gear is concerned. Everything else is technique.
Put an elbow pad on your left elbow (if right handed) and find a suitable grasping point on your right arm somewhere on your bicep. Rest the butt of your rifle on your left hand and the forearm of the rifle in the fwd rest.gamechanger is just a bag, nothing extraordinary (contrary to its name). slings are not allowed as well. Just bare hands (like UFC
What are the rules regarding a stock pack? Meaning having a built up pack and the rifle rests only on the pack?
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