F T/R Competition Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

[hrfunk]

I have the opportunity to purchase a 700P for a good price. It's chambered in 300 Win, and I was thinking of setting it up for 1000 yard competitions. I know the 300 Mag is not in vogue currently, but is there any reason to avoid it for my initial foray into these matches?

Thanks,
HRF

 

[XTR]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

Heavy recoil
More Powder
Outperformed by much higher BC .284 bullets.
If you set up for 300WM and get into it you'll end up needing to get set up again for .284 of some flavor.

 

[rpk762]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

Recoil is a main reason why a lot of shooters using have gone away from it. There are smaller rounds out there that will shoot inside a 300WM for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost.

With that being said you can always shoot it until you need a new tube. Then you can have your rifle set up some other caliber if you want.

 

[SNAFU_]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

also - that relatively small diameter factory bbl will be cooking hot after a 20+sighters shot string in competition....which usually results in an unpredictable change in impact for your last few rounds and shorter bbl life ... just my 2 cents worth

 

[scotharr]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

Just adding to what has already been said: recoil combined with the fact you can get better performance with a 7mm cartridge. I've seen several shooters start out with 300WM: they either stop showing up or switch to a different cartridge. 7mms are where you should be looking instead of the 300WM.

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just adding to what has already been said: recoil combined with the fact you can get better performance with a 7mm cartridge. I've seen several shooters start out with 300WM: they either stop showing up or switch to a different cartridge. 7mms are where you should be looking instead of the 300WM.</div></div>

+1. 300WM is not really a beginner cartridge. Most people will learn bad habits shooting this. But as far as the 7mm part goes, the vogue changes constantly. If you are sure you're going to love this, then spend the money and buy good equipment to start right out with, and do so in a popular caliber that there's lots of good info available for to help you get past the steep part of the learning curve (e.g. .308 WIN).

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know the 300 Mag is not in vogue currently, but is there any reason to avoid it for my initial foray into these matches?</div></div>

When I started HP/LR (1000 yard matches) the 300 WM dominated. There may be little fancy bullets out there, but that doesn't mean the 300 can't do it, it's done it before and they are still out there.

If you like the rifle, don't let it being a 300 WM bother you.

If the 300 WM sucked so bad, how come the Army went to it for a sniper round?

I still have my Model 70 300WM, and still use it when the wind gets nasty. (Which its been known to do in Wyoming).

 

[XTR]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know the 300 Mag is not in vogue currently, but is there any reason to avoid it for my initial foray into these matches?</div></div>



If the 300 WM sucked so bad, how come the Army went to it for a sniper round?



</div></div>

Never assume that what the military does is the best tech.

The Army went with the 300WM for 1000M (1100 yards) and longer because they don't have the $$ right now to tool up for the 338 Lapua. They have found that a hot loaded 300WM with one of the SMKs (I think the 220) that the 300 will give 1200 yd performance that is adequate and and comparable to the 338 so therefore doesn't justify the cost in switching to the 338. The point of the recent evaluation was to look at longer than 1000 yard performance.

 

[Triple D]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

If you don't have experience with magnums currently you may want to shoot a buddies a few times before purchasing.

The 300wm can do it, but if you're talking about matches that restrict using a brake, it's going to be punishing sending those 200+ grain bullets all day.

 

[Denys]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

Sniping is sniping; F-class is F-class. They are not the same thing.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

I'll admit... I'm more than slightly curious as to what kind of velocities a .300WM could make with a loooong barrel and the modern 220+gn projectiles (Hornady 225, Berger 230). The usurping of the long range 'crown' from the .300WM by the 6.5-284 was predicated, so far as I know, on a S190MK out of the .300WM vs. a S142MK out of the 6.5-284. Similar or better ballistics with 2/3 the recoil. Now... the heaviest bullet readily available in 6.5 is still a 140-gn class... but the heavy-for-caliber options in .30 cal have improved markedly. Granted recoil would take a noticeable jump as well... but it might be an interesting 'project'.

IIRC, Derek Rodgers did pretty well a couple years ago @ Sacramento using a .300WSM running 210 VLDs... so its not an entirely unworkable concept - if you can manage the recoil.

 

[Tactical]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

I played with 210 and 220s in mine and settled on two loads that pushed 210-220s at 2900-3000 fps. Would not want to shoot many without a brake though

 

[Khavic]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

Tactical

If you don't mind sharing your work and saving me some $$ would you PM me your best performing load data.

I've taken a few from the reloading forum already and have started making some loads up. Rifle is still being built and won't be done until Sep, so no big rush.

Thanks in advance.

 

[sdman11890]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Khavic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tactical

If you don't mind sharing your work and saving me some $$ would you PM me your best performing load data.

I've taken a few from the reloading forum already and have started making some loads up. Rifle is still being built and won't be done until Sep, so no big rush.

Thanks in advance. </div></div>

If you don't mind PM'ing me as well, I'm trying to decide between berger 230s, 208 amax's, and everything in between. If you can hit 3K fps with a 220 I'd love to see that load.

Thanks!

 

[Tactical]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

I am hesitent to put data on here but lets say this.

GAP knows how to throght/chamber the 300WM for this performance. I had a 28" 1x10twist Rock Creek barrel with Badger FTE Brake ( You need this beast for this set up)

I used RL22 powder. WW cases, Federal Mag Match primers

and 210/220 SMKs

Loaded to as long as a AICS 300 WM magazine would allow.

Be careful though because you can toast a barrel in rapid fire real quick

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

This has nothing to do with the chambering and everything to do with the rifle.

A factory 700P will not be competitive in F/TR or F-Open, regardless of what it is chambered in.

If you want to go bang away at an F Class match with a 300WM 700P, by all means do so. You'll have fun and learn a lot. Most local matches do not differentiate between F/TR and F-Open in the awards, so your ranking really is not effected by the chambering/rifle combo per se.

That said, if a person were to pick the 30 cal bore for F-Open, one would be better served with a more efficient, accurate chambering than the 300WM, specifically the 300WSM or a wildcat based off of one of the WSM family of cases. A friend of mine that is a top F-Class shooter is going to build a 30 cal F-Open rig soon to run the Berger 230s. The bullets just showed up at my house last week.

 

[DGD6MM]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

I'd avoid it simply due to excessive recoil.

 

[sdman11890]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am hesitent to put data on here but lets say this.

GAP knows how to throght/chamber the 300WM for this performance. I had a 28" 1x10twist Rock Creek barrel with Badger FTE Brake ( You need this beast for this set up)

I used RL22 powder. WW cases, Federal Mag Match primers

and 210/220 SMKs

Loaded to as long as a AICS 300 WM magazine would allow.

Be careful though because you can toast a barrel in rapid fire real quick </div></div>

Well, I had been planning on using RL22, WW cases, Fed Mag Match primers already, so I guess I have a good start!

I'm looking at either the Berger 230 hybrid OTM's or the newer Hornady HPBT Match... I think I'm going to order both and see what my new DTA likes

 

[SWRichmond]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...796#Post3222796

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...247#Post3244247

my results in my rifle, your results may vary, this is not advice.

 

[varmint slayer]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

A guy at the 2012 Snipers Hide Cup took 9th place I think it was running a .300 WM....wasn't a stock 700P but still did pretty damn good with the boomer.

 

[primerate2]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

I was getting beat at 1000 by guys shooting 300WM & 30-338's when I had a 308. So, I built a 6.5x284 with a sleved trued 700 with a Krieger in a McMillian stock. It was about a 1/3 minute gun. My bet was the Magnum shooters would suffer with the recoil through 20 rounds. They did and one little flinch ruined them. That 6.5-284 is a winner.

 

[eracer]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

From the USA F-class Rifle Team blog about the 1009 World Championships in Bisley, England.

2009 World Championship

"The whole US F-class Open team will be shooting the proven 6.5-284 caliber. Several of the other teams are shooting the ballistically superior 7mm calibers, but we expect to outwit them with our calculated wind calls."

 

[Tactical]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

The Crazy Winds at 2009 Worlds ate up the 6.5x284 and 7mms won it.

The 300WM will hang with everything but recoil is a problem since no brake is allowed in F Class. The 7mms seem to be best bag for buck when in heavy winds but when normal type winds are around the 6.5x284 is darn hard to beat.

 

[DBailey]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

+1

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

So, should I not bother with my 243Ackley? 8.5" twist at 30" I thought I might not embarrass myself with a suitable bullet. Never tried it, just thinking about it. In fact, haven't fired it yet. BB

 

[cducati]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

This is all great info. Recoil is my main issue with this caliber in F Class Open.
I LOVE my 300 WM GAP rifle.
I've shoot it "free recoil" style at the 2006 F Class nationals.... That sucked, BUT I cleaned a few strings!
That being said, my next custom build will either be a nice GAP in .308 for F-TR comp and tactical, or a GAP 260 just for fun and tactical.

The 300 WM has too much recoil to ride smooth on a rest and rear bag. There are better choices for competition use.

6.5x284
6.5-08
6.5-08 Ackley.
6.5 creedmoore
7mm

FYI, that 243 AI should be fine!

 

[DBailey]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, should I not bother with my 243Ackley? 8.5" twist at 30" I thought I might not embarrass myself with a suitable bullet. Never tried it, just thinking about it. In fact, haven't fired it yet. BB </div></div>

That round will not embarrass you even at 1000 yards, and its fun to shoot. If it's just setting there ready to go, using it is much more fun than looking at it.

 

[travis thomas]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

What about 300wsm? Im assuming you would avoid it as well?

 

[XTR]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gotta/start/sumwer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about 300wsm? Im assuming you would avoid it as well? </div></div>

There is nothing wrong with the 300WSM, except that it won't shoot 7mm bullets.

Yes, you can shoot the 300WSM in F Open, but in F class shooting at 1000 yards you have to shoot a much heavier 30 cal bullet to get the same BC and wid bucking performance as a lighter 7mm bullet. So a 230 or heavier 30 vs a 7mm 180 launched to get similar ballistics menas a lot more recoil for the man behind the 30 cal. Right now the 7mm short magnums are the best blend of BC, bullet weight, and recoil. Barrel life in all the over bore or magnum chamberings is short, in the 1000 round range so in that way they are all about equal.

A few yrs ago the 6.5-284 was the hot lick in F-open, but the higher BC 7mm bullets that bucked the wind better have replaced it for most top level shooters. I think that at this point F-Open may have evolved to the spot where it will live for a while with .284 bullets. That doesn't mean you can't shoot a 6.5-284 or a 300WSM, it just means that in most cases you are making it just a little bit harder for yourself.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

The twist is a concern. I like DTACs, and use a 7.5 barrel.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, should I not bother with my 243Ackley? 8.5" twist at 30" I thought I might not embarrass myself with a suitable bullet. Never tried it, just thinking about it. In fact, haven't fired it yet. BB </div></div>

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: Reasons to avoid the 300 WM for 1000 yard comps

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know the 300 Mag is not in vogue currently, but is there any reason to avoid it for my initial foray into these matches?</div></div>

When I started HP/LR (1000 yard matches) the 300 WM dominated. There may be little fancy bullets out there, but that doesn't mean the 300 can't do it, it's done it before and they are still out there.

If you like the rifle, don't let it being a 300 WM bother you.

If the 300 WM sucked so bad, how come the Army went to it for a sniper round?

I still have my Model 70 300WM, and still use it when the wind gets nasty. (Which its been known to do in Wyoming).

</div></div>

The 300wm held a 10 shot record at Byers here for years with a 10 shot group at 1.52" at 1000 yards. That being said a WSM duplicates the WM's performance with less recoil and better barrel life. Out here we tend to shoot in more wind than most of the rest of the country and as such we look for advantages. Most serious long range shooters here are shooting 6's 6.5's or 7's with 6.5's being the most popular. I shoot a straight up 260 Remington and it still surprises me with its performance from time to time. It has an ability to hold up in extreme winds, much better than any large .30 caliber I've ever shot.