I am undecided whether to go with a 22", 24" or a 26" final length in this 5R Bartlein barrel. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great.
Thank you
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Rebarreling a R700 .243 with a Bartlein Barrel, Which Length to choose?
- Thread starter LoanHarvey
- Start date
I am undecided whether to go with a 22", 24" or a 26" final length in this 5R Bartlein barrel. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great.
Thank you
Just my opinion, which probably ain't worth a crap, but here it is anyway.
If you reload, I would look more toward the shorter side as you can tweak your load ( read velocity-accuracy ) around it. I do believe that there is some accuracy to be gained in a shorter, stiffer barrel.
However you can only squeeze so much velocity out of it, and velocity has its own benefits so that has to be considered too.
I currently have a 26" 700p that I plan on re-barreling this winter, so I will be facing the same decision as you.
2shots may have said it best. Good luck.
If you reload, I would look more toward the shorter side as you can tweak your load ( read velocity-accuracy ) around it. I do believe that there is some accuracy to be gained in a shorter, stiffer barrel.
However you can only squeeze so much velocity out of it, and velocity has its own benefits so that has to be considered too.
I currently have a 26" 700p that I plan on re-barreling this winter, so I will be facing the same decision as you.
2shots may have said it best. Good luck.
Yea I usually like to stick to really long barrels:
1) I used to think they looked cooler.
2) Make sure all of the powder burns to keep up velocity.
3) Well #1 and 2 are crap because I now own 20" .308s, and go no longer than 24" on my re-barrels. The extra length was just extra weight for me.
The only guns that I have that still have over 24 are my factory SPS-V 223 and my 338 Lapua (which I specifically wanted the extra weight at 29")
1) I used to think they looked cooler.
2) Make sure all of the powder burns to keep up velocity.
3) Well #1 and 2 are crap because I now own 20" .308s, and go no longer than 24" on my re-barrels. The extra length was just extra weight for me.
The only guns that I have that still have over 24 are my factory SPS-V 223 and my 338 Lapua (which I specifically wanted the extra weight at 29")
You can use a slower burning powder in the longer barrels and typically keep the velocity up and not have the pressure problems you have by trying to run the same speed with a shorter barrel and a faster burn rate. Don't know if it's a fact but I think the barrels/throats last longer with the slower burning powders. I would rather pack and swing around a 20" barrel also but I think you give up too much. And again, easier to shorten than to lengthen!
My intended purpose is long range precision shooting primarily, like wanting to make hits on a 12" round JC Steel, from 600+ on out to 1500 yards or so, and then take it deer hunting and shoot out to the 600 yard range.
Thank you all for your comments, I appreciate that. I have a week before the Smith picks up the gun, so a little time to make a decision. Also have a Huber 2 state in the que, looking forward to that.
I own several 243 1-8 guns, the shortest is 24". The longest is 28" med palma, it balances better then the 24" mtu. My suggestion is 28" med palma, run h4831sc with 105 gr for 3070ish. Barrel life will be around 2000+ and that 28" can be cut back 2-3" and get the chamber into fresher rifling.
Thank you very much, I was a little concerned about barrel burn out after a couple thousand rounds. I just happen to have about 1000 Hornady 105gr BTHP Match and 8 lbs of H4831. So if I start with 28", then when the throat erodes, I can have it re-cut and threaded for fresh rifling, is that what you are saying?
Yep, spot on. Not sure how long the straight part of a med palma shank is off the top of my head, but it's long enough to set back a couple inches. Just have ur smith take minimal length off the big end when he initially chambers the barrel. H4350 will get u more speed then 4831 but it is harder on throats then 4831. I can get the same speed actually faster, in my 24" but i can guarantee it will die faster then my 4831 barrels. The 24" 4350 barrel is at 1600 rds pushing 105 hvld@3120 vs my 28" 4831 barrel is at 2200rds pushing 105 hvld@3080. I could run faster speeds in the 28" with 4350 but why, it makes the 308 look like a joke.
The barrel blank I have is the Rem. Varmint/Sendero Sporter Barrel Contour (Bartlein 5R), so it is not the Palma contour. Can you please provide further guidance or confirm how I should instruct the Smith.
Thanks so much 6br
Just let him know thatsince it's a 6 mm hotrod, u want to be able to setback the barrel in the future when the throat is gone. He will just take off minimal amount off chamber end. My smith knows to do that on my 6&6.5 builds, he usually just cuts the barrel info stamp 1/8" thick for me to keep and starts the thread tenon there.
Sendero/rem varmint is a great contour also, fairly similar wt to med palma, what twist is it? Good luck with build.
Sendero/rem varmint is a great contour also, fairly similar wt to med palma, what twist is it? Good luck with build.
Thanks 6br, it is an 8! So, it will shoot the 105's pretty well I hope. Thoughts? Again, many Thanks
My Krieger 1 in 7.5 twist burnt out at 820-ish rds. Opened up from solid sub-MOA to over a MOA and very unpredictable. It was 26 inches and the load was 47.0 gr Retumbo under the 107 gr SMK. I had the barrel cut down to 21 inches to get into fresh rifling. Retumbo will still get it under an inch, but H4831SC does much better in the shorter barrel.
Thanks MoBoost, another friend suggested a 6br. What are your thoughts on that?
Thanks
My 243 is a 27 inch 7.7 twist. Sends 115 DTACs and 105 Hybrids like a champ. I wouldn't go shorter than a 24 on 243. Just my opinion.
If you are open to a different caliber don't forget the 6XC.
If you are open to a different caliber don't forget the 6XC.
6BR is the benchmark of precision shooting. If you don't have one - you should; it is very easy to tune and very easy to shoot. Load-data and components are top notch. The only draw-backs are finicky magazine feeding and somewhat hard to read steel hits.
6SLR is 6BR shoulder/neck on 243(308) case. You can shoot 3200fps with heavies. Brass is easily available (243win) from EVERY major manufacturer. However, if you don't own 6BR or reloading dies - I would do 6BR first.
I'd keep the barrel as long as possible - you can always shorten it if you find yourself in "confined" shooting a lot (both space and range).
Stick with the 243, it's a breeze to load for and feeds great. 6SLR you have to do a lot of brass work and 6BR feeds like shit in a repeater.
I like 6 br also, in fact just built a 22" on a savage pta repeater. I have only had trouble getting it to feed in a 700. I have had two savage6 br repeaters and they fed like a raped ape, never missed a beat ejecting either which can be problematic with the short fat case. Also had a tikka6 br repeater, ran good and ejected good. I lay credit two those two rifles extractors holding onto the case better then the 700. It always dropped the brass on top of the mag.
6 br have decent horsepower to, have dropped many nuisance permit deer DRT out to 640 with 105 hybrids . Having sang the 6 br love, i still have a soft place for 243. Easy to load and i have enough targets in the .1-.2" range that prove the old 243 can get it done. Plus if 243 sounds too vanilla just tell people u shot a 6.15x51 mm, thats what lapua has on their brass boxes,lol.
6 br have decent horsepower to, have dropped many nuisance permit deer DRT out to 640 with 105 hybrids . Having sang the 6 br love, i still have a soft place for 243. Easy to load and i have enough targets in the .1-.2" range that prove the old 243 can get it done. Plus if 243 sounds too vanilla just tell people u shot a 6.15x51 mm, thats what lapua has on their brass boxes,lol.
I went through the same issue on my 1st LR rifle. After spending a lot of time researching things I went with a 28" length. The additional length offer additional FPS with less pressure. It also allow for a set back if the throat goes away. Last the weight help to reduce recoil.
There are several cartridges in the 6mm class that are much more efficient then the 243. They also offer better barrel life. And with better angles the cases don't require as much trimming. Lastly they get similar FPS, with less powder through improved efficiency.
There are several cartridges in the 6mm class that are much more efficient then the 243. They also offer better barrel life. And with better angles the cases don't require as much trimming. Lastly they get similar FPS, with less powder through improved efficiency.
Yes and no. I can get 3130 with 41.8 gr h4350 in my 243, about the same speed as others with only a .1 or two more. I am sure that some other6 mm can get better barrel life, but it would be measured in just a few hundred or less rds. The difference would be more based on rate of fire and individual barrel. These mystical 6 mm that use less powder and equal speed do so at the cost of pressure. With properly set dies case stretch is very minimal. Ibn fact i have a 6.5 cm that needs trimmed more then my 243. Not a fan of single source brass either that loses pockets in 2-3 firings ( attempting 243 speeds ). Also had several batches of lapua recently that had nk thickness variation of .0045", which is double what my Winchester brass measured.
I would think 3259 out of 40.5 for a 105 Hybrid isn't too bad for a little 6mm. Not quite "243 speed" No sticky bolt, no over pressure sign. And Norma brass will hang in there with the best when it comes to longevity. And then there the group size, but this isn't my thread. Don't be afraid the 6mm there are good choices.
The guy shooting F Class use 31", but 26"-28" barrel will do nicely. Good luck with your choice.
The guy shooting F Class use 31", but 26"-28" barrel will do nicely. Good luck with your choice.
Size matters. As all others have said, longer is better especially in a .243.
Short barrel at distance = self-posed handicap. To make up for the short barrel, you find your self pushing your rifle harder, leading to shortened barrel life. Not a smart approach to distance shooting...but short barrels do look cool in pictures. They are trendy, no doubt.
Short barrel at distance = self-posed handicap. To make up for the short barrel, you find your self pushing your rifle harder, leading to shortened barrel life. Not a smart approach to distance shooting...but short barrels do look cool in pictures. They are trendy, no doubt.
Majohnson2, mind sharing cartridge and barrel length on the 3259. 40.5 gr of what powder? Sounds like a typo or u have one fast barrel.
Update: I decided to stick with the .243. I am in final load development and here is what she printed yesterday. Any additional comments to finalize the load would be great.
243 Fan
I am assuming that the groupings are at 100 yards. If so then I think the gun is underperforming. I am assuming all components are good quality (stock & trigger).
I built a 243 Win using Rem700 and a Bartlein Heavy Varmit 1:8 twist at 24". It consistently 5 shot group of 1/4" or smaller. I would recommend Berger 105gr Match Hybrid bullets (not the VLD) and IMR 4350 (40 - 41gr). I am using Lapua brass and standard Federal large rifle primers. After determining your guns chamber COAL backed the bullet off the lands by 1-2 thousandths (just a little jump). I believe I am running 41.0gr of powder with a velocity of 2950 fps. Your gun may have a different node/sweet spot so you may want to build 5 round groups starting at 39.0 gr in 0.5 gr increments up through 42.0 gr. You will see the groups tighten around one of the loads and then just as quickly begin opening up after you go above this group. The key is velocity...if possible bring a chronographer to determine the velocities of each group to determine what speed your barrel wants the bullet to spit out of it. Good Luck - 243 is a great round!
I am assuming that the groupings are at 100 yards. If so then I think the gun is underperforming. I am assuming all components are good quality (stock & trigger).
I built a 243 Win using Rem700 and a Bartlein Heavy Varmit 1:8 twist at 24". It consistently 5 shot group of 1/4" or smaller. I would recommend Berger 105gr Match Hybrid bullets (not the VLD) and IMR 4350 (40 - 41gr). I am using Lapua brass and standard Federal large rifle primers. After determining your guns chamber COAL backed the bullet off the lands by 1-2 thousandths (just a little jump). I believe I am running 41.0gr of powder with a velocity of 2950 fps. Your gun may have a different node/sweet spot so you may want to build 5 round groups starting at 39.0 gr in 0.5 gr increments up through 42.0 gr. You will see the groups tighten around one of the loads and then just as quickly begin opening up after you go above this group. The key is velocity...if possible bring a chronographer to determine the velocities of each group to determine what speed your barrel wants the bullet to spit out of it. Good Luck - 243 is a great round!
Hi, groups looks not bad, but quite a lot of vertical there. How are you stabilizing the rifle - sandbags on a bench? I would suggest shooting at 300-600y is fun but not really conducive to working up a load, lots of opportunity for the weather to influence the group size. You should be able to get under .25MOA with that barrel.
I'm in the process of figuring out how long to make my next barrels - got a couple coming in 6mm, one for a 6BR and the other for a 243.
I'm in the process of figuring out how long to make my next barrels - got a couple coming in 6mm, one for a 6BR and the other for a 243.
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Hello toomanyhobbies, the targets you see at 300-500 have both H4350 and H1000 loads. Are you referring to too much vertical dispersion with the H4350 load? I was hoping to hear that those were good groups from 300-600. The vertical dispersion is minimal, under half MOA. Were you looking at the H1000 shots? Or is there much improvement that can be had?
I use a front and rear bag on the bench. Thanks for your input.
I use a front and rear bag on the bench. Thanks for your input.
That's not horrible but it's not great. Something under 15 SD is best, single digits are ideal. I'd go back to the drawing board and look for a load with a better SD.
I was referring to the H4350 loads. Not bad but room to improve. The question about the bench technique was meant to get a handle on the reason for the vertical dispersion. As redneckbmxer24 mentions, your ES and SD may be the problem. My best load for my stock Savage 6.5-284 F-class rifle gave an ES (extreme spread) of 6fps over 5 shots when I chronographed it last year. It will group well under 1/4 MOA vertically but will produce horizontal spread when I don't read the wind right. Your 300-500y targets are showing that pattern, but there appear to be some vertical flyers too. Shoot some more, check the spread on the chrony, see if you can reduce the vertical. Good luck!
