Range Report Received my new Magneto Speed V2 yesterday

[Jeff in TX]

Santa came early and delivered my new Magneto Speed V2 chronograph yesterday. Friday when I head to the ranch it will look like I'm going to war. I’ll be bringing an arsenal with me for range testing. Yes, they’ve all been chrono’d before but not with the new V2. Plus the new V2 works with suppressed rifles, just sounds like a lot of fun to me.

Plus I’m taking the new wife (got hitched this past Saturday) turkey hunting so she can get her first turkey! Now this will be fun too!

Will report on how the V2 speeds compare to my CED Millennium 2 chronographs with IR sky screens. Like I said it should all be fun!

 

[KYpatriot]

Re: Received my new Magneto Speed V2 yesterday

Any way you could set up both at the same time and compare data on each shot?

 

[Texas Destroyer]

Re: Received my new Magneto Speed V2 yesterday

im considering the safe magneto chrony will be looking forward to your results

 

[Jeff in TX]

Re: Received my new Magneto Speed V2 yesterday

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any way you could set up both at the same time and compare data on each shot? </div></div>

That's my plan as I want to compare the results as well.

 

[agbm]

Tried my V2, its great.

 

[shoot4fun]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any way you could set up both at the same time and compare data on each shot? </div></div>

That's my plan as I want to compare the results as well.

I am a current owner of both PACT and Oehler chronographs. I love the 35P but it is a PITA to haul to the range and set up so the Magneto Speed really interests me. I guess the honeymoon thing has you preoccupied for now but I am really hoping to see some comparisons here soon.

 

[jbailey]

Love my magneto. No going back for me!

 

[LastShot300]

Santa came early and delivered my new Magneto Speed V2 chronograph yesterday. Friday when I head to the ranch it will look like I'm going to war. I’ll be bringing an arsenal with me for range testing. Yes, they’ve all been chrono’d before but not with the new V2. Plus the new V2 works with suppressed rifles, just sounds like a lot of fun to me.

Plus I’m taking the new wife (got hitched this past Saturday) turkey hunting so she can get her first turkey! Now this will be fun too!

Will report on how the V2 speeds compare to my CED Millennium 2 chronographs with IR sky screens. Like I said it should all be fun!

Any chance for a report on handguns as well?

I'm very interested and looking forward to read your findings since I too have it on my list.

 

[Swift]

Any chance for a report on handguns as well?

I'm very interested and looking forward to read your findings since I too have it on my list.

I'm not sure the Magneto can be used on a handgun. Its secured using a tension strap that wraps over the barrel and handguns don't normally have such a provision. I don't see why it wouldn't work with a revolver, though.

 

[LastShot300]

I'm not sure the Magneto can be used on a handgun. Its secured using a tension strap that wraps over the barrel and handguns don't normally have such a provision. I don't see why it wouldn't work with a revolver, though.

Thanks for posting. I meant a revolver, I read somewhere else that it's possible. Not sure.

 

[cluebat]

I've seen several reviews online using it on a pistol, so it's definitely possible.

 

[jbailey]

Have any of you guys noticed a POI shift with the magneto on? I have not but have tried hard to fit it. No shift on either my AR or my bolt gun, both are fairly heavy barrels. I could not see any shift out to 530yds...

 

[FLIGHT762]

Have any of you guys noticed a POI shift with the magneto on? I have not but have tried hard to fit it. No shift on either my AR or my bolt gun, both are fairly heavy barrels. I could not see any shift out to 530yds...

Yes, I got a .4 -.5 MIL Higher POI shift using a Remington varmint taper in a 308 Win. Went right back to zero when I took the Magnetospeed off.

 

[LastShot300]

Have any of you guys noticed a POI shift with the magneto on? I have not but have tried hard to fit it. No shift on either my AR or my bolt gun, both are fairly heavy barrels. I could not see any shift out to 530yds...

This is interesting. According to what I've read on many reviews some users reported POI shift while other not. Apparently it's somewhat related to how it's mounted on the barrel. Could this be an explanation?

 

[sharpshooterbr]

The POI shift has been thoroughly tested, and has shown to be caused from the magnetic field of the sensor plate. Several users indicated that the POI always shifted away from the sensor plate as they rotated around the barrel from, say, 6 o'clock to 9o'clock to 12 o'clock. The POI shift is the only downside anyone has really found with the unit, as it does not seem to have an adverse effect on group size.

 

[Swift]

I don't see an issue even if there is POI shift. Maybe I use mine wrong but I use it to work up loads then get velocities in a few different conditions and after that I only need it if I travel to a considerably different altitude, and even then it's only used for a quick string to verify. It only measures velocity at the muzzle so using it to shoot 500yds is counter intuitive(unless that's all you have available) and it would obviously make no sense to compete with it so to me any POI shift is negligible. YMMV.

 

[jbailey]

The POI shift has been thoroughly tested, and has shown to be caused from the magnetic field of the sensor plate. Several users indicated that the POI always shifted away from the sensor plate as they rotated around the barrel from, say, 6 o'clock to 9o'clock to 12 o'clock. The POI shift is the only downside anyone has really found with the unit, as it does not seem to have an adverse effect on group size.

Thanks Sharpshooterbr - that makes some sense. So the shift up .4-.5 mil that Flight762 is experiencing is some type of a 'lift' force from the magnets. I hope the lack of a shift for me is not a bad sign that something is wrong with my unit. It is generating data that is very consistent with my actual drop data, indicating it is good results, at least much better than what I was getting from my traditional light based chrono (a CED unit, I believe). The unit is so portable I have it in a small box that I keep in my range pack. Overall a super piece of equipment.

 

[LastShot300]

Thanks Sharpshooterbr - that makes some sense. So the shift up .4-.5 mil that Flight762 is experiencing is some type of a 'lift' force from the magnets. I hope the lack of a shift for me is not a bad sign that something is wrong with my unit. It is generating data that is very consistent with my actual drop data, indicating it is good results, at least much better than what I was getting from my traditional light based chrono (a CED unit, I believe). The unit is so portable I have it in a small box that I keep in my range pack. Overall a super piece of equipment.

I don't think or believe it's related to any magnetic force at all. It's most likely related to barrel harmonics, given the POI dependence onn the plate's position. Indeed no magnetic force is at play there enough to cause any perceptible lift on a bullet.

 

[Luke]

LastShot300 is correct. Unless you're shooting magnetic ammunition (Steel core/bi-metal stuff) your typical bullet is not magnetic, or influenced by magnets. Even if you were shooting magnetic bullets the earth's magnetic field would have a great deal more effect over the entire flight of the bullet, than the couple microseconds it takes your bullet to fly over the MagnetoSpeed.

FWIW we use a MagnetoSpeed at work for laboratory use and have had zero problems with it.

I don't think or believe it's related to any magnetic force at all. It's most likely related to barrel harmonics, given the POI dependence onn the plate's position. Indeed no magnetic force is at play there enough to cause any perceptible lift on a bullet.

 

[gstaylorg]

The shift in POI is most likely a muzzle blast effect from the sensor deck, not barrel harmonics or an effect of the magnetic field.

 

[Remlin]

The shift in POI is most likely a muzzle blast effect from the sensor deck, not barrel harmonics or an effect of the magnetic field.

Hmm, I'd believe that. Muzzle gases reflecting back into the path of the bullet.

 

[jbailey]

The shift in POI is most likely a muzzle blast effect from the sensor deck, not barrel harmonics or an effect of the magnetic field.

Interesting. This might explain why mine isn't showing any shift. I have big side port muzzle brake (APA Little Bastard).

Thanks for all the above info guys. Magneto is certainly an interesting product. Every time I go to the range, at least one guy asks me about it. Some times I spend the entire afternoon talking about it... lots of interest out there for this device.

 

[Swift]

Interesting. This might explain why mine isn't showing any shift. I have big side port muzzle brake (APA Little Bastard).

Thanks for all the above info guys. Magneto is certainly an interesting product. Every time I go to the range, at least one guy asks me about it. Some times I spend the entire afternoon talking about it... lots of interest out there for this device.

I've had days when it's drawn too much attention and I constantly get interrupted in the middle of a string. Some guys will wait until the range goes cold, but others will tap you on the shoulder while you're pressing the trigger and I've lost it on a couple of em.

Then they wanna use it. I'm still on V1 and don't trust most of these rednecks not to break the clip so I end up mounting it for em, waiting for em to have their fun and write down their numbers, then remove it, clear the data, and before I can get it back on my rig they wanna use it on another weapon. The solution? Hit the range at dawn when I need to verify velocity or double up on earpro and pretend I don't hear em. It's a small price to pay.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Santa came early and delivered my new Magneto Speed V2 chronograph yesterday. Friday when I head to the ranch it will look like I'm going to war. I’ll be bringing an arsenal with me for range testing. Yes, they’ve all been chrono’d before but not with the new V2. Plus the new V2 works with suppressed rifles, just sounds like a lot of fun to me.

Plus I’m taking the new wife (got hitched this past Saturday) turkey hunting so she can get her first turkey! Now this will be fun too!

Will report on how the V2 speeds compare to my CED Millennium 2 chronographs with IR sky screens. Like I said it should all be fun!

Cool. I've subscribed to this thread but when should we expect a range report. Thanks in advance.

 

[LastShot300]

Hmm, I'd believe that. Muzzle gases reflecting back into the path of the bullet.

Interesting viewpoint. However I think its requires further analysis. Any word on this POI shift from the mfg?

 

[sharpshooterbr]

Even though copper and lead bullets are non-ferrous, they are still susceptible to magnetic fields. While ferrous metals are ferromagnetic and are attracted by magnets, some metals, such as copper and lead, are diamagnetic. When diamagnetic metals are put in close relation to a magnetic field, they will resist the magnetic field, thus moving away from the magnetic field and causing the POI shift that has been shown multiple times with the Magneto Speed. I feel that this is part of the reason for the POI shift that people are seeing.

I think the only way to truly prove whether the shift is from the shockwave of the bullet or the magnetic field, would be to design an enclosure to go around the sensor plate. This would help to equalize the shockwave effect on the bullet from all sides. If after adding the enclosure, the POI shift was still there, then the only explanation would be the magnetic field effect.

One other interesting fact, is that molybdenum is paramagnetic, which means that it has a slight magnetic attraction. I don't shoot moly coated bullets, but it would be interesting to see if moly coated bullets have the opposite effect and change the POI lower (towards the sensor plate) with the Magneto Speed attached; or if it doesn't cause a lower POI, if it would simply negate the upward POI shift seen with "naked" bullets.

 

[gstaylorg]

Even though copper and lead bullets are non-ferrous, they are still susceptible to magnetic fields. While ferrous metals are ferromagnetic and are attracted by magnets, some metals, such as copper and lead, are diamagnetic. When diamagnetic metals are put in close relation to a magnetic field, they will resist the magnetic field, thus moving away from the magnetic field and causing the POI shift that has been shown multiple times with the Magneto Speed. I feel that this is part of the reason for the POI shift that people are seeing.

I think the only way to truly prove whether the shift is from the shockwave of the bullet or the magnetic field, would be to design an enclosure to go around the sensor plate. This would help to equalize the shockwave effect on the bullet from all sides. If after adding the enclosure, the POI shift was still there, then the only explanation would be the magnetic field effect.

One other interesting fact, is that molybdenum is paramagnetic, which means that it has a slight magnetic attraction. I don't shoot moly coated bullets, but it would be interesting to see if moly coated bullets have the opposite effect and change the POI lower (towards the sensor plate) with the Magneto Speed attached; or if it doesn't cause a lower POI, if it would simply negate the upward POI shift seen with "naked" bullets.

I did something much simpler than that. I weighed a round with/without the sensor deck magnet in close proximity.

I placed an ~8" tall block of styrofoam on the pan of an analytical balance in my lab (0.0005 g accuracy, 0.0001 g readability) and tared (zeroed) it. I then brought the sensor deck magnet into close proximity with the top of the styrofoam block to ensure it was far enough from the steel balance pan that the relatively strong magnet didn't affect the reading. It didn't. I then placed a .308 round on top of the styrofoam block. The weight was 25.5091 g. I brought the sensor deck magnet very close to the round (~1/4") from the top. The reading didn't change. I repeated this several times and bringing the sensor close to the projectile never caused a detectable change in the apparent mass of the round. This distance is well within the magnetic field as can be demonstrated by bringing some steel object within ~1/4" of the sensor deck.

Any magnetic force (attractive or repulsive) of sufficient magnitude to alter the POI at 100 yd by very close to 1.0 MOA would have detectably altered the apparent mass. For comparison, it takes somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10 mph constant full value wind to alter the POI of a 175 gr projectile by 1 MOA at 100 yd. I conclude from this experiment that an effect from the magnetic field of the sensor deck is not the most probable cause of the shift in POI, leaving a blast effect from the sensor deck as the more likely explanation.

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter much. The fact is that the shift in POI occurs and is real. Pinpointing the underlying cause won't change that. However, I just happen one of those people that can't let something like that go without trying to figure out the answer. If I had actually been able to avoid this kind of senseless little diversion during the course of my life, I'd probably be (circle one) rich/famous/important/powerful...well, you get the picture (LOL).

 

[sharpshooterbr]

I did something much simpler than that. I weighed a round with/without the sensor deck magnet in close proximity.

I placed an ~8" tall block of styrofoam on the pan of an analytical balance in my lab (0.0005 g accuracy, 0.0001 g readability) and tared (zeroed) it. I then brought the sensor deck magnet into close proximity with the top of the styrofoam block to ensure it was far enough from the steel balance pan that the relatively strong magnet didn't affect the reading. It didn't. I then placed a .308 round on top of the styrofoam block. The weight was 25.5091 g. I brought the sensor deck magnet very close to the round (~1/4") from the top. The reading didn't change. I repeated this several times and bringing the sensor close to the projectile never caused a detectable change in the apparent mass of the round. This distance is well within the magnetic field as can be demonstrated by bringing some steel object within ~1/4" of the sensor deck.

Any magnetic force (attractive or repulsive) of sufficient magnitude to alter the POI at 100 yd by very close to 1.0 MOA would have detectably altered the apparent mass. For comparison, it takes somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10 mph constant full value wind to alter the POI of a 175 gr projectile by 1 MOA at 100 yd. I conclude from this experiment that an effect from the magnetic field of the sensor deck is not the most probable cause of the shift in POI, leaving a blast effect from the sensor deck as the more likely explanation.

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter much. The fact is that the shift in POI occurs and is real. Pinpointing the underlying cause won't change that. However, I just happen one of those people that can't let something like that go without trying to figure out the answer. If I had actually been able to avoid this kind of senseless little diversion during the course of my life, I'd probably be (circle one) rich/famous/important/powerful...well, you get the picture (LOL).

Gstaylorg, this is the type of empirical data that is needed to confirm the actual cause of the POI shift; well done. I thought that the shockwave effect was having some effect on the shift, but also felt the magnetic field played a role as well. I see from your thorough analysis that my theory was wrong, and the POI shift is solely caused from the shockwave effect. I, like you, find it hard to just relegate something to the mass opinion without actually testing it myself. Unfortunately, I do not have a scale as accurate as yours to conduct such a test. By the way, what scale did you use in this study?

 

[gstaylorg]

I used a Mettler AE240 balance set on the 40 g range. It's actually a much more precise balance than I probably need as I rarely weigh out less than 10 mg of any given reagent in the lab. However, I'm glad to have it as you never know when you'll that level of precision. To be honest, I've used a quartz quill balance in the past that was so accurate it needed a special vibration-dampening table in a room essentially free of air currents to even use it. When doing this little weighing test, even with my balance the air currents were enough to make the readings fluctuate noticeably, and I had to wait for the readings to settle before recording them. Unfortunately that comes with the territory when trying to determine very small changes in mass.

So, from this little experiment can I state with absolute certainty that the magnetic field has no effect at all on the trajectory of the projectile? Absolutely not. However, as I stated I think it far more likely that the change in POI is predominantly due to a blast effect. In the end it probably matters little to most people that will use it; they just need to be aware that it happens. Regardless of the shift in POI, I absolutely love this little MagnetoSpeed unit. It is so much easier to use compared with the other chronographs I have had. But the best thing is that having a bunch of shooters glaring at me while waiting for the line to go hot as I set up a tripod/chronograph is a thing of the past (LOL).

 

[Remlin]

I just thought of a way to validate the theory of blast/shockwave effecting POI. I would predict that the effect on rifles with side or top discharge brakes would be much less than rifles without brakes. If someone has a Magneto Speed V2 and a rifle with an easily removable brake, they could help us with this data point.

The test would have to be done in a way that would eliminate other variables. I would shoot with the brake, with & without the Magneto. Record the shift in POI. Repeat the same test without the break and record any shift in POI. All other variables need to be consistent - bullet, load, weather (within reason). If results are identical, it is likely not a result of blast or shockwave. If the POI shift is greater without the brake, it is plausible that it is due to gases or shockwave reflecting back toward the bullet.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

What happened to the OP and his anticipated test?

 

[PSYOPS]

What happened to the OP and his anticipated test?

He's a newlywed....I guess he's been tied up!!

 

[VTSEAL]

Nicely done combining the shopping list and the nuptuals...

Q: "Honey, what is this 'Magneto Speed' listed on our wedding registry?"
A: "Oh, just a little something I can use to stay out of the way when your mother comes over for a visit..."

 

[jbailey]

I just thought of a way to validate the theory of blast/shockwave effecting POI. I would predict that the effect on rifles with side or top discharge brakes would be much less than rifles without brakes. If someone has a Magneto Speed V2 and a rifle with an easily removable brake, they could help us with this data point.

The test would have to be done in a way that would eliminate other variables. I would shoot with the brake, with & without the Magneto. Record the shift in POI. Repeat the same test without the break and record any shift in POI. All other variables need to be consistent - bullet, load, weather (within reason). If results are identical, it is likely not a result of blast or shockwave. If the POI shift is greater without the brake, it is plausible that it is due to gases or shockwave reflecting back toward the bullet.

I will try to do this test. My rifle with the brake is not something I'm working on right now however so I'm not sure when I can get the test done. I will try and remember to post results here.

 

[Chance]

For me, I don't care about the point of impact shift or the effects of the magnetic force. What I want to know is....does the chrono work properly and read correct velocities?

 

[cluebat]

I haven't "double chrono'd" my handloads, but I did use my v2 last weekend and the velocities measured were very consistent and it was super easy to use. I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy.

 

[jbailey]

For me, I don't care about the point of impact shift or the effects of the magnetic force. What I want to know is....does the chrono work properly and read correct velocities?

I can tell you that the MV the thing gave me were dead nuts on to the predicted MV from the drops I was getting out to 900yds. My old chrono (CED) was consistently 50fps slow. Beyond the predicted MV from drops, I don't have the means of testing the precision of the magnetic chrono.

I did use my magnetic chrono last night on a rifle without a muzzle brake. Zero shift for me. So across three rifles, one with brake, one with flash suppressor, one w/o nothing, I don't get any shift.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

When I used mine, I got velocities higher than I had estimated. Its my first time using a chrono so I don't have any other data to compare with. But I trust the chrono more than my fps estimating ability. There really isn't a way to screw using it up.

 

[cluebat]

Question for you guys using Ballistic (or other software): By default, it has a "Chronograph Distance" of 10 feet. Are you guys leaving that as is or should I be changing it to 0 or 1 feet?

 

[Dutch405]

Question for you guys using Ballistic (or other software): By default, it has a "Chronograph Distance" of 10 feet. Are you guys leaving that as is or should I be changing it to 0 or 1 feet?

I'm very curious about this as well. Bumping for some answers.

 

[Michael Courtney]

I did something much simpler than that. I weighed a round with/without the sensor deck magnet in close proximity.

I placed an ~8" tall block of styrofoam on the pan of an analytical balance in my lab (0.0005 g accuracy, 0.0001 g readability) and tared (zeroed) it. I then brought the sensor deck magnet into close proximity with the top of the styrofoam block to ensure it was far enough from the steel balance pan that the relatively strong magnet didn't affect the reading. It didn't. I then placed a .308 round on top of the styrofoam block. The weight was 25.5091 g. I brought the sensor deck magnet very close to the round (~1/4") from the top. The reading didn't change. I repeated this several times and bringing the sensor close to the projectile never caused a detectable change in the apparent mass of the round. This distance is well within the magnetic field as can be demonstrated by bringing some steel object within ~1/4" of the sensor deck.

Any magnetic force (attractive or repulsive) of sufficient magnitude to alter the POI at 100 yd by very close to 1.0 MOA would have detectably altered the apparent mass. For comparison, it takes somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10 mph constant full value wind to alter the POI of a 175 gr projectile by 1 MOA at 100 yd. I conclude from this experiment that an effect from the magnetic field of the sensor deck is not the most probable cause of the shift in POI, leaving a blast effect from the sensor deck as the more likely explanation.

In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter much. The fact is that the shift in POI occurs and is real. Pinpointing the underlying cause won't change that. However, I just happen one of those people that can't let something like that go without trying to figure out the answer. If I had actually been able to avoid this kind of senseless little diversion during the course of my life, I'd probably be (circle one) rich/famous/important/powerful...well, you get the picture (LOL).

This is a nice experiment, but it neglects the fact that charged objects experience a force when moving through magnetic fields. The force is proportional to the charge, the velocity, and the field strength. If the bullet is picking up a charge in the barrel, then it will experience a force in the magnetic fields.

I've done lots of work with multiple chronographs and also with chronographs and acoustic methods simultaneously. The CED M2 with LED skyscreens meets the spec of 0.3%, or about 10 fps with most rifle loads. They do even better indoors or in the shade.

 

[gstaylorg]

I wouldn't dispute that. Any force would have to be proportional to the amount of charge, and I wouldn't imagine a bullet picks up enough charge relative to its mass to do very much, but I don't know that with any certainty. I am absolutely convinced the shift in POI is caused predominantly by muzzle blast, although it arguably doesn't matter for many applications. However, for reasons I can't explain, it seems as though many people simply want to believe that the magnet fields are the underlying cause, regardless of obvious evidence to the contrary. Even if it is caused by the magnetic field, I can't see that it makes any difference for most uses. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion as to the cause, and if people want to keep going over this issue again and again and again with new and even more far-out experiments, they are certainly welcome to do so. In the meantime, I'll be out using my MagnetoSpeed and not worrying about the shift in POI (LOL).

 

[XL Mammal]

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Very happy with my one.

Doesn't seem to effect the groups, not sure on POI ?

Works no matter what the ambient light conditions & is a snap to set up

 

[LastShot300]

This is a nice experiment, but it neglects the fact that charged objects experience a force when moving through magnetic fields. The force is proportional to the charge, the velocity, and the field strength. If the bullet is picking up a charge in the barrel, then it will experience a force in the magnetic fields.

I've done lots of work with multiple chronographs and also with chronographs and acoustic methods simultaneously. The CED M2 with LED skyscreens meets the spec of 0.3%, or about 10 fps with most rifle loads. They do even better indoors or in the shade.

It's hard to believe that a bullet's (mostly made with non-magnetic materials) can do some sort of pull out of the magnetic field produced by the Magnetospeed.

 

[cluebat]

I'm very curious about this as well. Bumping for some answers.

Go with 0 feet, that's what I was told elsewhere and seems to work fine.

 

[Dutch405]

Go with 0 feet, that's what I was told elsewhere and seems to work fine.

Ok that's what I was wondering thank you!

 

[Lukas Koukal]

For those having experience with both, is V2 a necessary upgrade over the V1, or is the V1 fine with thinner bbls?

 

[FLIGHT762]

For those having experience with both, is V2 a necessary upgrade over the V1, or is the V1 fine with thinner bbls?

The V1 will work with barrels up to 1.0". The V2 works up to 2.0" for barrels with a suppressor attached. Since I don't use suppressors, I bought the V1. It will work with all of my rifles. The Magnetospeed will not work with semi auto pistols. You would need to use a traditional chronograph for that use. Since my only need is for rifles, it's a non issue.

 

[mobius38]

I had a chance to use one the other day on my Remington 308 and I was very impressed. I am planning on buying a V2 in a month or so. Quick question on my part. Any of you try the Magneto Speed on an AR with a Surefire Brake? Wondering if Surefire would cause any damage to the Magneto speed itself.