Recent Experience with LaRue Barrels

It’s the 1/4 moa with factory ammo. There’s too much variance in factory ammo to do that consistently.
Yup. The most consistently accurate/precise factory-loaded 223 Remington ammunition fired at 100 yards fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 that I've tested is the Federal 69 grain Gold Medal ammunition.




Federal 69 grain Gold Medal Match Ammunition Accuracy



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In their 1984 catalog, Sierra Bullets introduced the .22 caliber (0.224”) 69 grain MatchKing HPBT (hollow point boat tail) bullet (#1380). The 69 grain MatchKing was “developed as a target bullet for testing by military teams in the new M16A2 rifle”* and the bullet became a popular choice for shooters using the AR-15 in High Power Rifle Competition.



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While the US military had experimented with “heavy” FMJ (full metal jacket) bullets for the 5.56mm cartridge as far back as the mid-1960s, (the Colt/Federal 5.56mm 68 grain FMJ) the .22 caliber 69 grain MatchKing was the first heavy OTM (open-tip match) bullet that was available to the general public as a reloading component for 223 Remington/5.56mm cartridges. (Hornady’s 68 grain OTM bullet (#2278) wasn’t introduced until approximately two years later.)



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In their 1989 ammunition catalog, the Federal Cartridge Company debuted an addition to its “Match” line-up of factory loaded rifle ammunition; a 223 Remington load topped with none other than the Sierra 69 grain MatchKing (223M). In their 1992 catalog, Federal expanded the nomenclature for this load to “Premium Match” (P223M) and in their 1993 catalog it became “Gold Medal Match” (GM223M) as part of a marketing campaign capitalizing on the USA Shooting Team’s success in the Barcelona Olympics using Federal ammunition.

It’s interesting to note that pertaining to the accuracy/precision development and multifaceted testing of the Federal ammunition that helped the US Olympians win gold and silver medals in Barcelona, Federal’s Director of Product Engineering, Dave Longren, had this to say:

“The standard test string was three 10-shot groups, with the most attention paid to the 30-shot composite. When you’re working at this level, the traditional five 5-shot group test simply doesn’t give you statistically valid results.”**



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The 69 grain Sierra MatchKings loaded in the lot of Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition that I evaluated for this article had a nominal length of 0.890”. The nominal cartridge OAL of this load was 2.248”. Through some simple testing, I determined that the 69 grain MatchKing has a specific gravity of approximately 10.2.

According to Ballistic Performance of Rifle Bullets by Bryan Litz, the 69 grain MatchKing has an average G1 ballistic coefficient of 0.330 and an average G7 ballistic coefficient of 0.169. The same source states that the “recommended twist for optimal performance” of the 69 grain MatchKing “is 1:9.5” or faster.

The 69 grain MatchKings that top the Federal Gold Medal Match ammunition are loaded in Federal brass. The head stamp for this lot reads “FC 13 223 REM”. The rounds are primed with Federal Gold Medal Small Rifle Match Primers (GM205M). The primer pockets are crimped and sealed with a blue lacquer sealant.



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The case-mouths of this lot of Federal 69 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition are sealed with asphalt sealant. The case-mouths have a slight taper-crimp which produces a shallow circumferential crease in the bearing surface of the 69 grain MatchKings. The pic below shows a pulled bullet on the right (the crease in the bullet indicated by the red arrow) next to a virgin 69 grain MatchKing on the left.



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This lot of ammunition is charged with a “ball powder” (though I have seen lots in the past that were charged with a short-cut extruded powder.) The squares in the red grid pictured below are 1/10th of an inch.



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Velocity


When it was first introduced, Federal advertised the muzzle velocity of the 69 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition as 3000 FPS. More recent advertising lists the muzzle velocity at 2950 FPS. These figures are from 24” barrels.



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I chronographed the Federal 69 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition from a semi-automatic AR-15 with a chrome-lined, NATO chambered 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a 1:7” twist.



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Chronographing was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. The Oehler 35P chronograph is actually two chronographs in one package that takes two separate chronograph readings for each shot and then utilizes its onboard computer to analyze the data to determine if there is any statistically significant difference between the two readings. If there is a statistically significant difference in the readings, the chronograph “flags” the shot to let you know that the data is invalid. There was no invalid data flagged during this testing.

The velocities stated below are the muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. The strings of fire consisted of 10 rounds over the chronograph.



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Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower. The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot. This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release. Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.



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Atmospheric conditions

Temperature: 70 degrees F
Humidity: 76%
Barometric pressure: 30.14 inches of Hg
Elevation: 950 feet above sea level


The muzzle velocity for the 10-shot string of the Federal 69 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition fired from the 20” Colt barrel was 2732 FPS with a standard deviation of 16 FPS and a coefficient of variation of 0.59%.

For those of you who might not be familiar with the coefficient of variation (CV), it is the standard deviation, divided by the mean (average) muzzle velocity and then multiplied by 100 and expressed as a percentage. It allows for the comparison of the uniformity of velocity between loads in different velocity spectrums; e.g. 77 grain loads running around 2,650 fps compared to 55 grain loads running around 3,250 fps.

For comparison, the mil-spec for M193 allows for a coefficient of variation of approximately 1.2%, while one of my best 77 grain OTM hand-loads, with a muzzle velocity of 2639 PFS and a standard deviation of 4 FPS, has a coefficient of variation of 0.15%.



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Accuracy


I conducted an accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the Federal 69 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition following my usual protocol. This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any group-reduction techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots).

The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a control group was fired from the test-rifle used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation.

All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrel used in the evaluation was free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifle rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifle rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold Competition Series 45x45mm scope adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shield was attached to the top of the free-float handguard. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.



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The Wind Probe.

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The test vehicle for this accuracy evaluation was one of my semi-automatic precision AR-15s with a 24” Krieger barrel. The barrel has a 5.56mm Match chamber with a 1:7.7” twist. Prior to firing the 69 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition, I fired a 10-shot control group using match-grade hand-loads topped with the Barnes 85 grain Match Burner. That group had an extreme spread of 0.56”.



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Three 10-shot groups of the 69 grain Gold Medal Match ammunition were fired in a row with the resulting extreme spreads:


0.67”
0.73”
0.67”


for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 0.69”. The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group. The mean radius for the 30-shot composite group was 0.24”.

The smallest 10-shot group . . .



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The 30-shot composite group . . .

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....



* Technical Staff. “Sierra .22 Cal. 69-gr. MatchKing.” American Rifleman Jan. 1984: 60-61. Print.



** Hunnicutt, Robert. “Ammo Good as Gold.” American Rifleman Nov. 1992: 32-33, 72-73. Print.





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My character is just fine. You see, my momma taught me not to take shit from fuckturds like you and your ilk. The older I get, the less tolerance I have for stupidity like yours.

Your inability to use proper capitalization and grammar and the fact that you are unable to form proper sentences, says quite a lot about you. You really should learn to use the mosterst gooderish English if you are going to attempt to insult someone, no matter how badly it fails.

You don't know who I am, what I have done, what I am capable of, yet your insecurities inspires you to talk shit. You deserve shit back. Based on your apparent immaturity, I have probably been shooting since you were in diapers.
Regardless of how well you and your equipment can shoot - You character is what it is..... truly lacking. At some point maybe you can step back from the keyboard warrior days, self reflect and on what you say and how you handle yourself and others. Best of luck in the real world... no way you walk around talking to people like that in person.
 
I had one experience with a personal purchase of a LaRue barrel. It sucked. Sent it back and was told it was fine, met their 1 MOA standard. Guess 1 MOA is larger like the BS in Texas cause here in the desert it's still mighty close to an inch.

That said I have seen and shot some fine early OBR'S and like some of the design theory produced, but screw me once and we'really finished.
 
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I've been pretty happy with the Larue barrels I've purchased over the years, including a PredatAR and a Stealth (years and years ago). Especially for the price a few years back, ~$225 or so for a barrel, there wasn't anything even close to it in terms of price and quality. I'm not surprised that people aren't necessarily seeing MOA across a large shot group and with a bunch of ammo types. First, there isn't a free lunch, you're not paying Bartlein and Kreiger prices, but second, 1 - 1.5 MOA for ARs is actually pretty decent, especially if you want to shoot factory rounds and actually use a ruler to measure group sizes. GTFO with that ".25 MOA nonsense".
 
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I’ve owned two Larue 5.56 barrels, one stealth and one PredatAR. Both were ok for the price, shooting a few factory loads into 1”ish 5 shot groups, but they weren’t the end all-be all some like to claim they are on other forums.
 
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Why don't you try reading some of my threads dipshit, I'm probably one of handful of people on this site that can actually shoot AR's at that level consistently, always posting my results instead of making false claims. That's how I know you're 100% full of shit.

See we here on the Hide try to weed out the liar's and the Trolls, if you want to blow smoke up people's asses go back to AR15.com

So either shoot a 6x5 and show us you can back up your bullshit marksmanship claims or STFU and go back to playing Air soft. Nuff Said!!
I have seen it myself. @bigjake83 can drive a gas gun like a champion.

As far as .25 MOA out of a LT barreled rifle with Hornady TAP, I just cannot believe it. Then again, you could be shooting handloads put together by the CEO of RUAG himself (I wonder if that fella can even load, prolly not, but I digress...), and I would remain as incredulous.
 
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I had an OBR 5.56 and a 7.62 PredatOBR.

Sold them both. Both shot okay, not great, however my larger issue was the inability to run suppressed consistently. FTF issues. My expensive semi auto’s turned into single shot guns.
 
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I hear you. I cannot recall a lie from ML, but he also is not one to want to hear criticism. As one "in the industry," I will tell you that every manufacturer, assembler and dealer takes a lot of complaints every day, and as an industry, I would rather hear "us" support each other and assume positive intent. In our business, we get 98 out of 100 people super happy with what we do. Those who make it to writing a review drop to 94 out of 100 with positive reviews. Those 6 with not so positive reviews then repeat their comments 16 times in 8 different forums, and 1 of the 6 make it their life's ambition to tell everyone what a shit our business is. I'll bet the same is true for LaRue.

What is interesting is the adoration that occurs in the LaRue forum on ARF com. The fan base is extremely loyal. Loyal to the point that there are a dozen or so people who will take up the virtual sword on anyone complaining about LT. Then, the conversation devolves to a contest or dick measuring ordeal between the firm in TX and the firm in PA. As if there cannot be two good trigger, rail and optic mount companies ?

I think LT makes some good products, and some that were "good in the day," and has not innovated in the ways that others have. Some of his staples I think are pretty solid, like the OBR, and his billet uppers and lowers, his trigger and many of his mounts.

I am surprised at your results on the barrels, as that has not been what I have heard from others, nor my experience. Keep in mind that Rainier and WOA are profiling and chambering someone else's blanks, whereas LaRue is drilling steel. I agree that both of those companies have a fine finished product. Barrel making has come a long way in 10 years, and there are a lot of very good barrel makers and blank makers out there.
Thats because his comments are the typical lies people claim about brands they dont like. In the real world, the shit people claim about larue isnt the case. People get their feelers hurt because mark is an asshole (he is. Hes not a pleasant person, online or in person). But his products are top notch. Its ok though. Everyone online is a firearms expert and "sniper".
 
Follow link by clicking on the photo to 5 shot 100 yard target using PredatOBR. Bought it 2 years ago. targets 2,3,5 and 6 are the Predat targets. Not bad for a new Larue with my hand loads. If I did my math correctly avg for 4 groups = 0.57" And I am not a LaRue fan boy. I'm a Noveske guy.
 
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Thats because his comments are the typical lies people claim about brands they dont like. In the real world, the shit people claim about larue isnt the case. People get their feelers hurt because mark is an asshole (he is. Hes not a pleasant person, online or in person). But his products are top notch. Its ok though. Everyone online is a firearms expert and "sniper".
You can chalk my experience up to whatever you’d like to call it but I’m pretty sure the two rifles I owned had issues running suppressed.

They ran like a top without a can on. Ergonomics were great. Accuracy good. Triggers amazing. I would have kept them if they suppressed…..but I’m no sniper….I’m just a dude who likes to shoot my guns suppressed…
 
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If I wanted to rebarrel an PredatOBR 7.62 to a 6 Creedmoor or a .260, what barrel company would be your choice? Any other suggestions are appreciated.
I know that you can swap in an off the shelf barrel on a regular OBR with a bit of finessing but not sure about the predatobr. Larue does make 6.5 and I think 6 caliber barrels for the predatobr but I don't see them on their site (maybe try calling?).

All the smiths I can think of who are well known and good have horrendous wait times. 8-12 months.