F T/R Competition Recoil to the Left ???

[HighRez]

I thought I'd post this here among the serious prone shooters for some feedback. I'm still trying to figure out my prone technique, unfortunately by myself for the most part, and it's difficult to know what I'm doing right and doing wrong.

Here's what I think is my biggest problem and leading to some erratic groups. I've read that in the proper prone position the gun should finish its recoil still on target or at least reasonably close. Yet when I shoot, the gun most always ends up pointing to the left of target. And we're not talking MOA, we're talking degrees to the left most of the time. What's going on?

I shoot right handed. Gun is a Remington 5R .308. Harris bipod and Protektor rear bag. Sightron 32x56 scope.

Any direction is appreciated. Thanks.

Bob

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

You need to be straight behind the rifle... so any angle you are off when looking at your alignment will matter.

There is also shoulder position, how you press the trigger, where your head is and how much pressure you apply there.

Best you can do is post a video or image of you behind the rifle, blinding diagnosing off text on the internet is hard.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

Thanks Frank. I've read many of your posts on the subject and being inline with the gun has been one of my priorities, as well as equal weight distribution side to side. I think I am straight ... the video is a good idea and would probably tell a lot.

I think my trigger pull is straight back and pretty consistent. Not sure about right shoulder positioning. There seems to be a comfortable fit, but I am putting a lot of pressure against my right elbow on the ground for support. Left elbow and forearm are well away from my body with good ground contact all the way to my bag hand. I've never thought about head position and cheek weld. Could too much cheek pressure for a RH shooter cause left recoil?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

Sure, think about it,

if the head is pushing the back of the rifle to the right, the muzzle will go left.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

Makes sense. I'll try lighter cheek contact on the stock. What do you recommend on "loading" the bipod? This obviously puts a lot of pressure on the other end against the shoulder. Good thing or bad thing?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

When loading the bipod, a little goes a long way, especially if you are using a Harris, you dont' "push" into it, you just stack your weight behind it because there is no slack to load up. So the idea of loading the bipod like with an Atlas or Versa is different. If you are pushing, that means too much right shoulder pressure, so once you shoot the right shoulder will move forward, and push the bipod / muzzle left

 

[HighRez]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

OK, now I have two things to try differently. Given your comments, I've been loading the bipod too much. That, along with too much cheek pressure is probably causing the big left shift.

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

Try rotating your body to the left (very slightly). Right leg straight back from the butt of the gun, left hip and knee up just a little.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

I'm trying to visualize that, Monte. Do you mean pulling the left leg and knee forward slightly like in old style prone shooting?

 

[memilanuk]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

Sort of the inverse... in regular prone you typically (for a right handed shooter) put the left arm under the rifle, with the left leg extended straight back and the right knee pulled up to push the body over on the left side to relieve some of the pressure off the diaphragm and ease breathing, etc. At least thats the traditional 'cookie-cutter' position that everybody starting out gets forced into. Took a lot of adjustment for me.

For F-Class, for me, I found that a traditional HP position resulted in the the gun bouncing *way* left - like several targets worth, and crossfires tend to not help your score. Getting straight behind the gun tamed that considerably, but I still end up on the next target over more often than not. Rotating a little more to the left and pulling up/ extending the left leg to the side enough to push the right hip down seems to counter the movement more fully. Keep in mind, it's not pulled up all the way like a traditional HP position would imply... just enough to push the right hip down a little.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

It all makes sense ... thanks! Just got in from about an hour of positioning and dry fire practice. Then I shot 15 rounds at 200 yards and I must say that things have improved considerably. My group was just over 1 MOA not counting a couple of fliers, and there was a little wind to contend with. Things I THINK I learned:

I was not actually straight on with the target to begin with. Even though it felt like I was, it occurred to me to look at the target instead of the gun. My body was actually still pointed at least 5 degrees to the right ... maybe more. Positioning more to the left allowed my head to go down more naturally to the stock also.

My adjustable comb was actually too high causing too much cheek pressure. Lowering it all the way allowed a more natural light touch of the cheek.

I had been loading the bipod way to much. As Frank suggested, I just put my weight behind the stock and didn't load it. This also resulted in a much lighter touch on the trigger since I was not forcing the bipod loading with my trigger hand too.

The gun is still recoiling a little to the left, but nothing like it was ... the same as you described your problem. I'll try your suggestion on weight distribution.

To still work on .... I'm not sure about my head height relative to the scope. After two or three shots my neck is craning so much it hurts and my vision goes blurry. I have to take a break.

So much to learn, but a lot of fun doing it. Thanks for the help.

Bob

 

[BradfromND]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

Another thing could possibly be that the rifle is located a little too far out to the tip of your shoulder, meaning the outside edge of the pocket. The further out you go with the butt pad, the more your shoulder flexes and can cause your muzzle to not point at the target after recoil. I'm not saying to position the pad on top of your collar bone, but pull it in like another 1/4 inch. It can make a difference.

 

[HighRez]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

Thanks Brad. If anything I may need to go a bit to the right on my shoulder ... my collar bone is taking a beating, but that seems to give the best head position on the stock.

 

[BradfromND]

Re: Recoil to the Left ???

That very well could be the case too. Your rifle needs to be centered in the pocket and repeated on every shot. If your collar bone is really taking a beating, try raising your bipod a little so you sit up a little bit more. That will also be a more comfortable head/neck position for extended shooting periods like F Class.