Recommendations on small medic pouch

[Jerrrrstanley]

I'm on the hunt for 10 small molle medical pouches to place on our team vests. I would like to find some that have good contents. Most of what I have found so far have 3" bandades and 4" gauze. I guess I'm looking for something that can handle gunshot wounds and stab wounds, not paper cuts. I didn't know if anyone on here has a line on some GOOD kits that can plug big holes if something goes sideways, bad.

 

[ceylonc]

Check out this link below for some kits that might be of interest. Have sold quite a few to LEO for duty purposes...

Delta Outdoorsman (Powered by CubeCart)

I can also build one for you to your specs. Also, knowing a make/model pouch you'd prefer would be helpful, as I know you want one that will accomodate the contents AND hold up.

Best of luck!
Ceylon
deltaoutdoorsman.com

 

[Armordude]

I have one of these Tactical Operator Response Kit™ (TORK™)

COY Tactical Operator Response Kit w/ChitoGauze PRO! From North American Rescue.

Kit Contents:
1 x Bag (TORK™)
4 x Bear Claw Nitrile Glove, Lg. (2 pr.)
1 x Nasopharyngeal Airway 28F with Lubricant
2 x HyFin® Chest Seals
1 x ARS® Needle Decompression Kit (14 G x 3.25 in.)
1 x C-A-T® (Combat Application Tourniquet®) Blk
1 x ChitoGauze®PRO Hemostatic Bandage
1 x S-Rolled Gauze™ (4.5 in. x 4.1 yd)
1 x ETD™ 6 in. Emergency Trauma Dressing
1 x Trauma Shears (7.25 in.)
Dimensions:
Cased Closed: H 7 in. x W 4.5 in. x D 2.75 in.
Weight: 1 lb 5 oz

There are several versions woth other pieces of kit. They even have squad level packs.

 

[sjb269]

Armor dude pretty much nailed it. However, best to put together the kits yourself from scratch, fully custom. Decide what absolutely has to go inside, then shop for a pouch to fit it all.
As a base line to decide what to include, remember trauma care basically means air needs to go in and out and blood needs to go all around. that being said.
NPA and OPA. lube for NPA maybe, a swipe of the PTs saliva works just fine before you drop it in.
One way CPR mask
already recommended C.A.T (arterial bleed)
Sterile compresses for direct pressure ( venous bleed)
quick clot
occlusive dressings for sucking chest wounds
moist sterile dressings for eviscerations, eye wounds, burns.
WMD type countermeasures ie. Mark 1 auto injectors.
EMS shears
one pair hemostatic forceps
sterile gloves

Well hell the list could go on forever, this is my basic list, it's my own opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it.

 

[VJJPunisher]

an issue IFAK is actually a great kit, all youd need

http://www.usamma.amedd.army.mil/assets/docs/ifak.pdf

Improved First-Aid Kit (IFAK) - ArmyProperty.com

 

[B3dlam]

It might also be worth talking to your team medic or whoever provides medical training to your team. Things like an NPA are great but if your team isnt trained on them they might not be the best idea. Same goes for things like a decompression needle without proper training it may not be something you want in the kits. You might look up Dennyducet on youtube or facebook. I beleive he is a paramedic on a swat team and has a great series of videos on what a tactical team needs in their IFAKs he would also be a good source for who to look at for team training.

 

[Kamkaze]

ITS tactical makes a nice kit

 

[medicjim]

Kits do NOTHING. You can treat a GSW with very basic stuff... but you need to know what to do when the symptoms present.

I suggest you copy the military...

#1 - get trained in combat lifesaver
#2 - bring an experienced trauma medic (NREMT-P or equivalent, not an EMT-B)
#3 - let him design your issue kits and team approach


If you are not operating on a large scale team, I suggest you carry four things in your kit (bulky trauma dressing, hemostat, tourniquet, zip lock bag). Put the other items in the zip lock and keep it inside a nylon pouch. Train to apply the TQ one handed... use the zip lock bag to cover sucking chest wounds, clamp spurting bleeders...everything else gets direct pressure with the dressing.

As a trained medic, an elaborate FAK tells me right off who is a gear weenie vs actual operator.

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

We are without a team medic right now. Some of our teams that cover a metro area have volunteer paramedics. We cover a rural area and have always had a hard time getting volunteers. We always put med flight on stand by and they can be any where we cover within 25 minutes.
I think I'm going to have to piece together a kit. We have some basic first aid bandages and compresses but need C.A.T.s, quick clot, and occlusion dressing.
Thanks for the respondes they have helped point me in the right direction. We are also seeking training from a guy in our department that is a paramedic and was a trauma nurse in an ER before joining us.

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

I was also of thinking of going small enough to keep in a bdu pocket. Some of our calls we don't get completely jocked up (k9 tracks, sniper deployment, and search and rescue missions). These are usually the calls that place us farthest away from civilization too. What do y'all think about placement? Bdu or on the vest.

 

[smokebomb]

I agree with Jim. Our SRT Medics carry only what is necessary on the vest or drop leg.

For entry:
Gauze 5x9s-x2
4" rolled gauze-x1
Piece of plastic-usually small biohazard bag
CAT tourniquet
Some carry a pouch of quik-clot or similar

If a team member goes down, the above treats bleeding. If they stop breathing, they get rescue breaths and drug back to cover. A team medic with small backpack can carry the decomp. kit, bvm, asherman chest seal...etc

No point in weighing shooters down with shit they dont no how to use, and realistically have no use for when the truck is a 3 minute drag away.
If your farther away from equipment, you better have a dedicated medic on your team with more supply.

 

[Slapchop]

Jerry,

Your best bet is to put a kit together yourself for your specific needs. Most of the commercial kits are great but you end up paying for lots of stuff you don't need. There is actually a great thread about this in the Mil/LE section and I'll link it at the bottom of my post for you.

Basically all you need is shit to control/stop bleeding and some airway management tools. We all have the same, small molle pouch attached to the same location on our tac vest. That way everyone knows where to find it in case of an emergency.
As far as contents goes:

QuikClot but the Combat Gauze variety
Tagaderms (large)
Asherman Chest seals
A large trauma dressing
C.A.T. Tourniquet
Basic OPA and NPA
Gloves and shears

Here is that thread from before that you might find interesting. http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-mil-only/145321-tourniquets-med-pouches.html

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

Thanks slapchop. That's what I was looking for. Before I go and spend money on items I'm going to beg and borrow and trade with our local EMTs and fire departments.

 

[Slapchop]

Thanks slapchop. That's what I was looking for. Before I go and spend money on items I'm going to beg and borrow and trade with our local EMTs and fire departments.

Now you're thinking lol... Stay safe!

 

[Cobracutter]

First Mistake...........Asking this on snipershide. This is not a medical forum and while there may be a handfull of corpsman/medics/emts/docs.... this is not the forum you want to make your determination from. I wouldn't go to a car forum to ask what gun to buy.
Second Mistake....... Even asking about gear before medical training is a recipe for disater. All the gear and tools mean jack shit if you don't know how/when to use them or get someone killed beacuse of inpropper application or diagnosis.
Third Mistake....... You should NEVER run a raid or forced warrant without medical staff on site or very close by. Your administrators are bat shit crazy if they let you hit a house without atleast a EMT-P on site/accsesable. If this is just for emergency response or backup, then the advice above (torn, Isreali Bandage and a Hemostat... WITH TRAINING ON ALL) should be covered ASAP.

 

[Slapchop]

First Mistake...........Asking this on snipershide. This is not a medical forum and while there may be a handfull of corpsman/medics/emts/docs.... this is not the forum you want to make your determination from. I wouldn't go to a car forum to ask what gun to buy.

Not true, there is a wealth of knowledge/talent on here from people who have been there and done that. Not everyone here is a recreational shooter. Some of us have more extensive backgrounds. I know for a fact that there are trauma doctors, ER nurses, Airforce PJs, paramedics, emts, the list goes on that post on here. Should all that knowledge be discredited because this is primarily a shooting site?

I do agree with the rest of your post wholeheartedly though. Training and knowledge is key. Something which was covered in the other thread from way back that I linked.

 

[Cobracutter]

There are PJ's, Doctors and Combat vets at my local watering hole...... But thats not where I go to for medical eduation.

This site focuses on long range shooting. Hell half if this shit on here about Carbine and Pistol shooting is laughable at best. Go to a site or a resource that is dedicated section or subject for this. We are not talking about recreational shooting trauma management, he is talking about proffesional medical scenarios. When you do something stupid that kills someone, are you going to say Joebobshooter from snipershide told to apply the xxxxx when xxxx @ xxxxx?

 

[Hairball]

When you say "team" vests, what type of team are you referring? When you are in the process of creating a small med kit, you need to decide what the main function of the kit will be and the training that is available to make sure individuals are proficient with the contents of the kit. I am a retired FMF Corpsman so I have a different take on what may be needed for each type of injury. I carry a full size pack in my truck that can treat almost anything; however, if you want to focus on strictly hemorrhage control, you can build a small kit that is relatively light weight. I have just such a kit I carry in another bag that I take to the local range or when I am on duty. The kit is comprised mainly of celox gauze and bandages, some granules, about 10 tampons and some tape. I have used QC and celox in the field and I prefer celox. QC is not a bad option for civilian use as a hospital is readily available to flush it out but if you intend on being away from direct medical care for days or weeks at a time, celox is the better option. You can go on the Internet and find many companies that sell QC or Celox and they usually sell small kits that are made to be carried by first responders. The main issue for using any of these items is to include an extensive training program on how to apply and manage these items. You need to keep it simple and not design a kit around a "what if" scenario because if you plan for too many types of injuries, the kit would be too large to manage. When I stood on the scale to get weighed for my last combat tour, I was 418 pounds without firearms or ammo. We carry a lot of gear to a set location and then take what we need to cover the mission at hand. Plan on a massive bleed out and just take a few items to control it. EMS is readily available so all you need to worry about is blood loss until further help arrives.

QC = QuikClot

 

[sjb269]

What's the problem in using this forum as a sounding board? Sure the info here is not the end all be all, but it has value. Cross reference the info here with the handful of other ideas from other sources and you could get a good starting point of what to carry in the field.
To say "kits do nothing" well, that's your opinion, and whoa, a bit closed minded. I wouldn't make the assumption a Tac medic is over your right shoulder. Keep the kit small and uncluttered. Train with it.
Certainly training is primary. I wouldn't want to be on the front line of anything these days without some kind of small kit. Hell, we have Mark 1s at our disposal. Overkill? not when you need it.

 

[Jerrrrstanley]

It is a 10 man law enforcement Tactical Team. We are all first aid and CPR certified. In tac basic we had about 4 hours dedicated to combat medicine but they dont give us supplies. We have pieced together some stuff but were looking for kits to be more consistent with our placement and training with items.
My department is in the process of setting up a dedicated medic for each team. The area our team covers doesn't offer a lot of choices in the way of volunteers to get called out with the team at all hours of the night. We always put local EMTs on standby (if available) and we have our med flight that we put on stand by as well.
We are just looking to do better than what we are now, as everyone always should. We want to have the same kits located in the same place for everyone. That's why I asked about kits and not training. I will never turn down any training and know that I need more in the area of combat medicine. I wish we could have hands on training at a trauma center but that is highly unlikely.
All I was asking for was a line on good kits, like does anyone sell them on the hide. I have already checked out some links posted and think we are going to go with small kits pieced together instead of a pre-packaged kit.
Thanks again for the help.

 

[Stand.Deliver.]

Jerry,

Your best bet is to put a kit together yourself for your specific needs. Most of the commercial kits are great but you end up paying for lots of stuff you don't need. There is actually a great thread about this in the Mil/LE section and I'll link it at the bottom of my post for you.

Basically all you need is shit to control/stop bleeding and some airway management tools. We all have the same, small molle pouch attached to the same location on our tac vest. That way everyone knows where to find it in case of an emergency.
As far as contents goes:

QuikClot but the Combat Gauze variety
Tagaderms (large)
Asherman Chest seals
A large trauma dressing
C.A.T. Tourniquet
Basic OPA and NPA
Gloves and shears

Here is that thread from before that you might find interesting. http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-mil-only/145321-tourniquets-med-pouches.html

^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^

Bleeding and airway are what kills folks quick (< 15 Minutes), so those are what you should aim to treat on scene before the local first responders arrive.

My advice (for what its worth on the internet not knowing me from Adam):

Make sure any tourniquets you get don't have the plastic spindles (I think this includes the CAT- SOF-Ts and the newer METT-Ts (something like that) TQs are nice and have a metal spindle that won't snap in a panic).

You are going to want occlusive dressings for sucking chest wounds and though you would want to know how to needle decompress (to treat tension pneumothorax), you can also just peel back the occlusion until pressure equalizes then put it back. Tension pnuemo's really only become an issue (will kill you) 20 minutes and later so the locals should be there by then. If you are going to get the 14 ga needles to needle D then have more than one, you'll thank me (and the internet!) when you aren't using a dull needle filled with meat the 7th time on a guy.

Go with the combat gauze Slapchop mentioned instead of quick clot powder (works but not fun), and get trained how to pack a wound to stop hemorrage. Extremity bleeders get TQs for the short term assuming you are going to have support (so you dont have to be the guy to pack your buddies wound with gauze, unpleasant for both of you). And know that a properly applied TQ will have a conscious guy writhing and unhappy with you, the best places to put them tend to have nerves running in parallel to the arteries.

 

[Hairball]

Chinook Medical Gear, Inc - Your Source for Medical Kits, Tactical Combat Casualty Care Items, Emergency First Aid Supplies including hemostatic, bandages, personal protection, iv supplies, tourniquets, evacuation and more!

Individual Kit (CCRK) - Coyote

ZMedica - QuikClot® adsorbent hemostatic agent speeds coagulation & rapidly stops blood loss: Z-Medica Corporation

These are just a few that make kits for what you may need. Just make sure you add the training to the annual plan. It sounds as though you may go for long periods of time without injury so the need may not be as apparent as it should be. When things do go south, fingers will be pointed at everyone trying to CYA and explain why this type of equipment was not on hand and why the training had never been done. Sounds like you are headed in the right direction but keep up the training as I have seen many departments get involved only to give up after a year or two of no incidents and eventually you will have a number of people on the unit that have no idea what to do with their medical supplies.

Tracheotomies and decompressions are not something you want to fool with unless you really know what you are doing and for the average responder, these procedures should not be attempted unless you know how to mitigate the issues when the procedure does not go according to plan. bleeding and basic airway should be sufficient for what you need.

 

[Kamkaze]

Not to hijack as I think this is on topic, the owner of this site is a former 18D and offers a ton of options from individual stuff up to full kits for large teams, they also offer LE/MIL discounts and are a good resource for good training classes and so forth.

https://www.tacmedsolutions.com

 

[Hairball]

tacmed has a lot of specialized gear but their med supplies are way over priced for Internet sales. As an example, tacmed sells quikclot combat gauze for 46.68 or you can go over to amazon and pick it up for 26.49 If you need ready made kits and don't want to take the time to put them together they have many options but purchasing regular line items can be found for much less if you look around.

 

[plong]

Let me first say: Absolutely nothing wrong with asking this question here; I've found there is a wealth of information and experience here on the 'Hide! Case in point allot of what was posted above.

My three favorite sources for med gear, pretty much in order:

1. Chinook (link posted above)

1-A. Rescue Essentials: Rescue Essentials, your Single Source Solution for Tactical EMS supplies and kits

2. North American Rescue: North American Rescue - Home IMHO they have the best PPE nitrile gloves I'v found.

I tend to avoid TacMed, their prices just haven't ever been very good when I've been shopping...

FWIW: I've learned you can do much better on total cost by buying individual items and avoiding "Kits" regardless of where you shop. That said, and most importantly: Get Trained (if you aren't already; I'm not assuming you aren't... ). I've intentionally omitted a list of FAK contents for a reason: what you put in your kit will be totally dependent upon your training and proficiency. Example: I have allot of aid training, I was a Red Cross certified instructor at one point (although I've since allowed that certification to lapse ) but I am not trained for the use of an airway, just never received that training (yet...), therefore I don't have one in any of my kits. YMMV!

Also check out the Zombie Squad (I know... I know...) First Aid Forum, there's a wealth of good first aid and first aid supplies information there!

 

[Landon]

Call these guys and talk to them. I knew nothing about what to buy and they were very helpful and did not try to up sell me.

Austere Provisions Company

They have kits available, they can build kits and they can give you a lot of good guidance. They recommended a kit for me which I later had reviewed by my aunt who is a nurse in a fairly busy trauma center. She said that the gear was on point and the combat gauzes and compression bandages were the latest and greatest.

They were also helpful in keeping me organized and making purchasing resupplies easy and fast.

 

[JohnnyC]

The Dark Angel Medical kits seem to be pretty popular, although they aren't the cheapest.

Dark Angel Kits

 

[medicjim]

operator blow out kit...

you'll need to spend a couple minutes on google so I am not accused of pushing any particular brand. Enter the following test in the search box, then order the item which best fits your budget and tac-guccy tolerance level.

"trauma dressing 12 30".... suggest you look for one in a plastic wrap so that it tolerates a wet pouch...packaging can double as your occlusive dressing...price should be about $2 US

"touniquet windlass" ... pick one...all the hype about metal is overblown, most of the plastic ones are plenty tough.... if you have a decent command of high angle rescue, I could even teach you how to tie a special knot which will convert a small length of static kernmantle into a perfectly good TQ... for about $ 0.15

"freezer bag 12"" ... be generous, buy the whole team each a bag.

OK, now do me a favor.... take the $3 it really costs to create a blow out kit and spend it... now put the rest of the $200 you were willing to spend onto the table... put half into your pocket and send the other half to me so I can buy ammo to go shooting <BG>...

regards
Jim

 

[evilcoon]

Check out this link below for some kits that might be of interest. Have sold quite a few to LEO for duty purposes...

Delta Outdoorsman (Powered by CubeCart)

I can also build one for you to your specs. Also, knowing a make/model pouch you'd prefer would be helpful, as I know you want one that will accomodate the contents AND hold up.

Best of luck!
Ceylon
deltaoutdoorsman.com

+1 Great dealer on the forums!

 

[Stand.Deliver.]

As a quick note, I've actually seen the plastic windlass on a TQ snap on a upper femoral hemorrhage. So yeah, get whichever one you want...

 

[Slapchop]

if you have a decent command of high angle rescue, I could even teach you how to tie a special knot which will convert a small length of static kernmantle into a perfectly good TQ... for about $ 0.15<bg>

ummm would that happen be the "Double Fisherman's Knot" you're talking about? I agree, it's great for making tourniquets and Prusik loops but you would need something way smaller than the standard half inch kernmantle. For what you're talking about I'd use either 6 mil (or smaller) accessory cord or 550 cord. The figure 8 bend or water knot would also work but don't look as clean as the double fisherman's knot.

See what you've done Jim? You made me go off on a high angle diatribe lol.

</bg>

 

[Graham]

I have a first-gen kit and I like it:
About the Product

 

[medicjim]

See what you've done Jim? You made me go off on a high angle diatribe lol.

</bg>

I use a Purcell, often used to tie a four point horizontal stokes rig, or an adjusting ascending step.... basically a prusik knot looped back on the standing part of the rope it's tied from. 6mm would be plenty strong, but might dig in making it hard to manage...

 

[jwms]

liked the comment about tampons. started by the French in the 3 musketeers days for musket ball wounds. didn't penetrate like a .223/5.56. carry OBs as a brand. not many think about them. old post but info is info!!!

 

[acudaowner]

here is a pouch , and it even comes with free food attachments if it only had a lavatory and a air conditioning it would be pretty pimped out but the onboard boxing coach is hard to beat . on a side not it does taste exactly like McDonald's in the mid 80's