Training Courses Recommended precision courses?

frost1235

frost1235

Sergeant of the Hide
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Nov 3, 2018
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Where it snows
#1
With all the classes in the US, what would be the most recommended long range/precision courses?

Off of my research, I've seen that the Sig Academy has decent selection, but how the range is set up there, it seems like it would just be prone/bench shooting.

I've heard of the SAAM precision school and how it's pretty focused to hunting is a pretty good course to take, but are there any other courses that have a focus on positional long range shooting?
 
#9
I'm in the lower New England area, but I'd rather go somewhere that is known and specializes in training long range. Hence was why I brought up SAAM; apparently they have tons of difference ranges to set up scenarios and reiterate points.
 
#11
SAAM is hunter training and really stripped down... I have been to FTW a few times and its designed for the hunter with a lot of old school teaching that has since been replaced by more modern techniques.

They still talk in clicks and break things down for the big dollar hunter who just wants to spend money, knowing these guys will forget everything taught the day after they leave.
 
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#13
Lowlight said:
SAAM is hunter training and really stripped down... I have been to FTW a few times and its designed for the hunter with a lot of old school teaching that has since been replaced by more modern techniques.

They still talk in clicks and break things down for the big dollar hunter who just wants to spend money, knowing these guys will forget everything taught the day after they leave.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was looking for!
So that leaves:
K&M
Gunwerks
Mile High training
Rifles Only

My main focus isn't hunting but something similar to PRS/versatility. I've studied a ton of information from millet, PR blog, here, and youtube and it gets confusing. I don't know if you guys have done multiple courses, competitions, or just military training, but my end goal would be to get to the point where I can go unknown distance, range a target, and be able to make an accurate hit regardless of conditions.

I'd like training on:
1.) Positional shooting, as well as prone/bench
2.) Windcalling/Mirage
3.) Range estimation
4.) Being a spotter
5.) Reloading precision match rounds (If possible?)

So with this in mind, which of these schools would have the most value in relation to what I'd be looking for?



But thanks to everyone for chiming in!!! Greatly appreciated!
 
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#15
My son and I took a class with Brian Whalen and his firm Colorado Precision Rifle. He has classes here in CO and I think in NM too, associated with JP. He is an outstanding instructor. Really patient and relatable instructor. Learned a lot, even in his basic class.

1.) Positional shooting, as well as prone/bench
2.) Windcalling/Mirage
3.) Range estimation
4.) Being a spotter
5.) Reloading precision match rounds (If possible?)
Click to expand...

Brian's class covers the first four very well, even use of a sling. The 5th he talks about if you are interested in. Like I said in another post, I first met Brian almost 10 years ago when he took pity on a few of use shooting handguns down at PWSA. He was working out some kinks before a deployment and spent some time in an impromptu handgun clinic. Nice teaching style- and a really distinctive voice. I just knew him as 'Brian'. Heard him on one of the snipers pod casts and was like "I know that voice". He impressed me enough with his demeanor years ago, I signed up for one of his classes and wasn't disappointed at all. He has his SF background along a lot of shooting sports experience.
 
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#18
hey ....................get a clue here..............nobady gonna train you to bea sniper..........you go to these things to find out what works and what don't.....at the end, guess what...you do pretty well at knocking down a deer or elk or hog or...at distance ....not too much more....the revolution will not be televised ...yhe revolution will be live....
 
#20
BOLTRIPPER said:
hey ....................get a clue here..............nobady gonna train you to bea sniper..........you go to these things to find out what works and what don't.....at the end, guess what...you do pretty well at knocking down a deer or elk or hog or...at distance ....not too much more....the revolution will not be televised ...yhe revolution will be live....
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who gets a WTF feeling over this?
 
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#23
I understood completely what he is saying and he is right ...

He is saying you want the best marksmanship training you can get and the rest will fall into place. Many range advertise specific training but it is all wrapped up in the fundamentals. You can try to cheat them, buy them, shortcut them, but in the end, it's the foundation for all great shooting.

Boltripper knows the score, been around a block or two
 
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#27
frost1235 said:
Exactly what I was looking for!
So that leaves:
K&M
Gunwerks
Mile High training
Rifles Only

My main focus isn't hunting but something similar to PRS/versatility. I've studied a ton of information from millet, PR blog, here, and youtube and it gets confusing. I don't know if you guys have done multiple courses, competitions, or just military training, but my end goal would be to get to the point where I can go unknown distance, range a target, and be able to make an accurate hit regardless of conditions.

I'd like training on:
1.) Positional shooting, as well as prone/bench
2.) Windcalling/Mirage
3.) Range estimation
4.) Being a spotter
5.) Reloading precision match rounds (If possible?)

So with this in mind, which of these schools would have the most value in relation to what I'd be looking for?



But thanks to everyone for chiming in!!! Greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...


I took a two day intro course at CORE (https://www.coreshooting.com/) and it was a good course. Instructors were Brian Morgan & Ryan Castle. I wrote a review on here somewhere. I'd recommend them. I guess if I could do it all over again I'd prefer a three day course out west somewhere and one that covered and had the time to cover, more on wind reading and mirage, and a slightly smaller class size. But I would go and take another course with them in the future.

They also do reloading classes. Maybe you could get them to schedule the course book ended together with the rifle class.
 
#28
frost1235 said:
I'm in the lower New England area, but I'd rather go somewhere that is known and specializes in training long range. Hence was why I brought up SAAM; apparently they have tons of difference ranges to set up scenarios and reiterate points.
Click to expand...

Sig Academy has some good instructors, Epping New Hampshire/Southern New Hampshire.

They have a few PSR classes.

I'll be shooting there Saturday "Reach for 1000" not so much instruction but good fro getting dope and experiencing 1000 yards.


Edit add.......Saw that you looked up Sig. Yes most of the shooting is belly based but you will get to call wind, get some fundamentals and touch upon ranging etc. While in class they spend a bit of time on ballistics and try to impart a journeymans knowledge of what happens as you pull the trigger.

Its a good place to crawl before you walk before you run.
 
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#29
TJC said:
Rifles Only for PR 1-2. Jacob really focuses on the fundamentals and once you’ve done that course head to K&M for Shannon’s course to really focus on how to apply those fundamentals in the PRS game.

They are both great schools and great teachers. If you can only afford one...you are in the wrong sport ?
Click to expand...

It's not so much an issue of affording the schools, it's the problem of too many schools to the point that some might not have the most up to date information, or one school's focus is totally out of scope. I guess that is the best way to put it; firm foundations for precision rifle. I'll be honest and tell you that the fact I can't even tell you fundamentals I'm lacking when it comes to long range shooting should be a flag on how lost I am.

No disrespect, but if I wanted to go and play sniper, I'd buy the game series. I've seen the indoc for 0317 and read the reqs and pubs for sniping.
Fuck. Dat. Noise. It's bad enough that I couldn't play Halo or Guitar Hero because I would ALWAYS have an insatiable urge to move, never mind stalking and concealment while carrying my own shit next to my food.
I did enough during the time I was in; my focus now is actually ENJOYING marksmanship. constantly improving my skills, and someday passing my knowledge onto my kids.


Nonetheless, thank you everyone for the contributions! Looking forward to good news and knowledge to spread! I've contacted K&M, and will do the same for Rifles only. After that, I'll save up and try to go to another course every other year to keep the knowledge incoming.
 
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#31
frost1235 said:
I'll be honest and tell you that the fact I can't even tell you fundamentals I'm lacking when it comes to long range shooting should be a flag on how lost I am.
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and pay for the online training here. That will get you started down the path on the fundamentals before you show up to your class.
 
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#33
BOLTRIPPER said:
hey ....................get a clue here..............nobady gonna train you to bea sniper..........you go to these things to find out what works and what don't.....at the end, guess what...you do pretty well at knocking down a deer or elk or hog or...at distance ....not too much more....the revolution will not be televised ...yhe revolution will be live....
Click to expand...
The OP has said nothing of the sort.
 
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#34
Long Range 338 said:
Do yourself a favor and pay for the online training here. That will get you started down the path on the fundamentals before you show up to your class.
Click to expand...

I haven't made use of the Sniper's Hide courses, but if they are like the rest of the website, it's probably a good product. I second this guy. Show up with some fundamentals under your belt. You'll get more out of the course.

It's the same reason you pick up your house before a cleaner comes, or you stretch out before going to the chiropractor. Good luck in your journey!
 
#36
BOLTRIPPER said:
hey ....................get a clue here..............nobady gonna train you to bea sniper..........you go to these things to find out what works and what don't.....at the end, guess what...you do pretty well at knocking down a deer or elk or hog or...at distance ....not too much more....the revolution will not be televised ...yhe revolution will be live....
Click to expand...

Mr. Scott-Heron did have a valid point, one that should be heeded lately.

As to courses, I liked NRA's Whittington in Raton. Mainly for the range. Instructor was good. Hills and canyons. Nothing flat. Wind seemed to come from anywhere and then change.

Also liked Precision Applications. Mainly for the instructor. Range was good. Flat but good incorporation of natural obstacles and structures into the exercises. His fun night contest will open your eyes.

Looking forward to trying Mile High.

Shooting is a perishable skill and you can't learn the basics to many times. Have fun.

Thank you,
MrSmith
 
#38
frost1235 said:
With all the classes in the US, what would be the most recommended long range/precision courses?
Click to expand...

Take a look at CORE Shooting Solutions in Baker, FL
https://www.coreshooting.com/collections/courses

They have an excellent Intro course and Advanced course.

Instructors are top shelf. They are very current on equipment usage, Kestrel and other ballistic solvers (They hand out loaner Kestrels and tutor their use to attendees that do not have one). Unlike instructors at many other facilities, the CORE instructors remain current by competing in national level competitions and many times moving through continuing education themselves with instructor development courses from time to time.

I get what is being said about attending course that is longer than 2 days., but my opinion is that you should get a solid Intro course then break off and digest. Regardless of the course or the number of days, a good instructor will be aware of not only principles of learning curves but also the forgetting curves while tailoring their P.O.I. accordingly.

You are still learning and evolving after training (if you are truly trying to be a student of the art). Then schedule and Intermediate or Advanced course. Then rinse and repeat with a different range and instructor cadre every other year to stay in the groove.

In my opinion, I would concentrate on the "precision" part of things and work toward solid fundamentals and learning how to build functional, sustainable off-belly positions. Too many people get wrapped around 1K and Coriolis when they cannot even perform consistently inside 300.

Tons of good instruction out there and tons of bad instruction out there.
Good luck with you development.

./
 
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#39
I am fortunate to live 1.5 hrs from K&M, but I did see quite a few guys that flew in and brought their firearms.

Might want to ship ammo beforehand. Not sure, but I thought there was an issue flying with that much ammo. 500 rounds will certainly push over standard weight limits anyways.
 
#40
nexusfire said:
Do you guys ship your rifles and ammo or take then on the plane? I saw that rifles only course requires 500 rounds.
Click to expand...
Might also want to check with them if that is anywhere near a realistic number that you will shoot. Some of these companies from what I've seen really like to inflate the count in the course description. Was looking at a two day pistol class the other day and the description said 1500 rounds. Give me a break.
 
#41
From my vantage when leaning something new that requires as much hands on expierence as shooting, Getting multiple classes from someone locally may be more beneficial then traveling and going all out for one class...assuming the teach good fundamentals
 
#44
frost1235 said:
I'm in the lower New England area, but I'd rather go somewhere that is known and specializes in training long range. Hence was why I brought up SAAM; apparently they have tons of difference ranges to set up scenarios and reiterate points.
Click to expand...
we'll be opening our training facility in dalton NH in spring 2019, hoping to take Precision in New England to the next level.
 
#48
I've trained with a few different instructors and precision rifle facilities, and for a first time course I don't think you can pick a better choice then Rifles Only PR1&2 course.
 
#50
I am a hunter that had a goal of being able to humanely shoot big game out to 600 and if wind was cooperative maybe 800 yards. Hunts are expensive, and that may be a guys only shot opportunity. If that’s what your dealt, it would be wise to be prepared.

Fritz at Mile High took my M70 270 win Classic action and built me a rifle capable to reach my goal. It was built for the Berger 170 EOL. Thank you, Berger for building that bullet! Yes, it is 1:8 and has the ft lbs to take elk out a bit over 800 with 1500 ft lbs. If you want to bring your 270 win up to LR capability, you should talk to Mile High! I wish more bullet makers would get on that caliber for all the thousands of 270 guys out there and build some LR cartridges. That’s another discussion!

I took level 1 classes with Brian at JP Blue Steel Ranch in NM and with Frank Galli (and Mike Menchaca) at the Mile High Shooting Accessories private range in Fort Morgan CO. You can’t go wrong with either of these courses. Both instructors are exceptionally knowledgeable and experienced trainers. You will come away from either course with a very good understanding of the Fundamentals of Marksmanship. At BSR we shot out to 1000 yards, and at FM we shot out to 1425. Both ranges have targets further out if that’s your goal. When it came time to shoot my elk this year at 424 yards, I was well prepared.

BSR has multiple ranges including shooting off a Rim into a canyon, which I found to be quite helpful for my hunting applications. After shooting with Brian, I purchased a Leica 2700B rangefinder and Kestrel 5700 Elite with Applied Ballistics. I also purchased a NF ATACR 4-16 with a Tremor3 reticle and worked with Brian to understand how to use it. Mike Menchaca at Mile High explained the Tremor3 to me, and then Brian worked with me on shooting with it. I’m a have to do it to figure it out kind of guy. Then when I shot at Frank’s class we trued our DOPE in our Kestrels out to 1000 yards, which was extremely useful on my elk hunt. My elevation data was spot on thanks to Frank.

Both Brian and Frank worked on fundamentals, which I will continue to develop. Both ranges provided ample opportunities to shoot in wind. My next challenge will be to work with these guys on reading and gaining more experience shooting in wind. For me personally, I don’t think a guy can ever get too much experience understanding and shooting wind.
 
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