Recycling is it worth it?

[Shooter McGavin]

My wife is a big proponent of recycling. However, she read an article that has change hear mind. Some of the points she recalled to me were that it was an ineffective use of resources ( having a trash truck and recycling truck). We would know where everything is being store so that when and if we ran out of something we could recycle it more efficiently. When we recycle paper and plastic products we need chemicals to help break them down and these chemicals are bad for the environment. Would we ever run out of sand to make glass? What do you think?


Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Shooter

http://rumorsweretrue.wordpress.com/2007/01/18/recycling-is-garbage/

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I have an issue with our recycling here locally. Its a mandatory charge regardless to "rent" a recycling bin. In previous communities, recycling was free, since the recycler would more than make money for the cost of picking it up. Some local city council when they struck the deal musta got a nice little kick back.

Thus, everything goes in the garbage. When ever government forces you to do something rather than by choice, I'll be damned, and when they make money on top of that.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

Different communities have different programs. The ones with strict requirements on separation, cleaning, removing labels, clear bagging, etc. produce raw materials more likely to be purchased by manufacturing facilities.

In the case of many areas (like mine), everything is thrown together in a bin with food waste, garbage, cigarette butts, oil bottles, etc. This ends up in a heap and when no one bids on it, into the landfill.

In the case of glass and even metals, the impact is that less energy is required to re-manufacture vs. using new raw materials. It is often not the case of raw material alone. IMO the household collection aspect is key to providing material someone can actually recycle.

 

[ubet]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I dont recycle, I thinks its all bullshit. Then again, we reuse a lot of things like sandwich bags and plastic bottles (to a point). For the time it takes and the little money you get back from recycling its more beneficial to sit and pick my ass till it bleeds.

 

[BALLISTIC]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I don't recycle for money anymore because it is not worth my time, but I do put everything I can into our 'recycle' trash can.

 

[Dollman]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I never have recycled. I think it's a crock of shit and I'm not going to waste my time. I read somewhere that recycling items into new uses up much more energy. Bigger carbon foot print.

 

[M25BeastShooter]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

Funny all the hype over the money saved or made by the local to recycle trash cause its "good" for the environment and then what is left goes to the land fill. I personally know of several cities and municipalities that operated VERY profitable incinerators but the ECO-FREEKS decided that burning anything even with all the modern filters and scrubbers is SOOOO bad for mother earth that they shut them down ($00.0 income) and now all that energy is dumped into a landfill to ferment and cause future time bombs

The same SMART People that have caused the massive forest fires out west by stopping control burns and re-introducing wolves to decimate the Elk and deer population are still thinking this stuff up!!

 

[High Binder]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I partnered in an engineering research paper about this once and easily found that all the evidence shows that the cost of transport/cleaning/etc. far outweighs the benefit of recycling in all cases except metals. Paper products had the worst energy return on energy invested and plastic wasn't far behind. The only benefit plastics had was that they take forever to decompose when hidden from sunlight so recycling plastics is a good thing but is not cost effective at all. In fact and to that point all of recycling (save metals) is subsidized...

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I happen to be in the waste disposal/recycling industry, no I am not a trash man. Recycling or more accurately, reclaiming water is my business. I am in a position however to learn a lot through continuing education and personal study.
As a rule recycling metals is smart and profitable. Glass, as I have learned, is added in even in new manufacturing of glass from silica sand and other necessary components, due to the fact that it lowers the temp needed to melt the other components. Source for this info was on How It's Made on the Science channel. A very good source of information on a great many things.
Other things like most plastics and paper products are poor candidates for recycling depending on final use. I bought some fence posts once that were made from recycled plastic. They were not quite as useful as teats on a boar hog.
My educated opinion? Much of the recycling fascism in this country is hype and bad science. Most of the folks that are so rabid about bad science recycling are completely against good science recycling such as domestic sludge application on farm land(not row crops for human consumption) and wastewater effluent reuse on golf courses and lawn irrigation, a very highly regulated beneficial form of recycling.
I have a rare opportunity to be on the inside looking out and most rabid environmentalists want nothing more than to see a mass extinction of at least 6.5 billion people. They are for windmills until they start to build them. They are for solar power as long as it isn't in their back yard. They want the poop from their toilets to never reach the river but magically disapear. They want rivers so clean they won't support a decent fish population. Don't believe me? due to increasingly tighter regulations on wastewater plants some lakes rivers and streams are actually nutrient deficient. I have been openly accosted by these enviro nazis so I have some bit of hatred for these moronic jackasses.

 

[rpk762]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

In certain areas it is worth it. Where I live it is 8hrs on a truck to get to a area that can do anything with some of the stuff and much farther for other trash. So yes and no.

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I can't believe that nobody has posted this yet. Watch:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zzLebC0mjCQ"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zzLebC0mjCQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wS1dv3iat8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wS1dv3iat8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fvz-z7CvsYA"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Fvz-z7CvsYA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

Thomas Sowell has written countless columns on this subject as well as covering it in his books.

Basically, government is not supposed to be a money making enterprise. Money saving yes. Profit driven? No.

In any enterprise, when a revenue stream associated with a service presents itself, one must calculate all the cost before one can conclude that revenue stream is positive.

Given the shameless stupidity, cynicism and inbreeding of the media that is little more than a PR branch for left wing government, (As most urban areas are) it amounts to a complete absence of business like analysis of the actual costs of municipal recycling programs.

Add to this the generation of feel good slogans, the scavengers who raid the aluminum out of people's recycling bins every morning before they are picked up by the city, the trash all over the street everyday the city is supposed pick it up, ( blown, thrown or bounced by the very "Sanitation" workers responsible for picking it up,driving like maniacs in a fleet of specialized trucks that makes trash days sound like a truck depot in every neighborhood...) and you have a classic example of un-scrutinized Government Bullshit.

They can pass each of the previously unforeseen or ignored costs, as well as the losses, on to the customer and continue to run their mouths about how beneficial the programs are full in the knowledge that some dumbass at ACTION-NEWS, or the local paper, is bound to utter, "If it saves only one tree, (Otter, duck, Dolphin, Lesbian, whatever...) it's worth it..."

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

In my community, I can bring my trash to a central collection point and pay a certain price per bag to toss it into the compactor truck yourself. Last I heard, it was $8/bag, regardless of size/weight. They have sorting bins for various recycling materials, no charge. Or..., you can sign up with a carting firm for weekly pickup, with a separate bin for co-mingled recycling, costs run about $90 a quarter, and this is my method.

I have my doubts about the validity of recycling (and container deposits), but I still do my part; largely because I have so little choice anyway.

Greg

 

[Surffshr]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

When we were given the large, truck-emptied recycle bins they cut normal trash pick up in half. This made recycling essentially mandatory to keep from having an overflow of the regular can. I'm sure it is not cost effective, but I consider recycled goods (and landfills) a resource regardless. I like to think that technology will catch up and make both things viable energy sources. Besides, I can either recycle or have a pile of stinking trash waiting on the next pick up.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there are people, who like to tell other people, how to run their lives and this[recycling] is a great way to do it."
Daniel Benjamin
Professor, Clemson University </div></div>

Ain't that the mother fucking truth!!! Biggest problem we have in our country today.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

Used to be they paid us for recycling, now we pay rent on the bin, and we pay for it as part of the service.

MEANWHILE the companies doing it are making a mint off of us.

And, I read that there is more aluminum on this earth than any other substance, except water....in the form of boron (THink that is the mineral).

Anyway plastic - yeah, keep it out of the oceans...

I actually got paper bags the other day and thought how cool that was, because if they end up in the ocean they are gone in 3 days, not 3 centuries.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

A few points to consider:

A) keeping shit out of landfills which impacts ground water or produces toxic gases as it decomposes is a good thing.

B) the Penn and Teller vid was heavy on poking fun at urban dipshits and light on facts and figures. Here is one fact that I am surprised they missed - the crying Indian from the 1970s, was NOT an Indian.

C) some folks that question the worthiness of it all should tour (among other facilities): 1) a re-heat steel plant, 2) a paper plant - particularly newspaper, 3) a landfill, 4) a transfer station, 5) Goodwill Industries, 6) a rendering plant, 7) a waste water treatment plant - start asking about the financial side of things.

Hint - they ain't in business b/c they are loosing money.

Good luck

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

financially, right now, it probably isn't worth it - but that's not the point.

in the end you have only so much room to put so much waste, so if you don't cut down on the amount of waste, you'll run out of room to put it. recycling doesn't completely take this out of the picture but at least least reduces it until the next best thing or practical solution comes along.

plus there are the resources used to make new stuff, let's say plastic for example. less resources used to recycle already existing plastic.

in theory, companies using recycled plastic, paper, etc. suppossed to use less stuff to make new stuff, so it supposed to reduce manufacturing costs and produce a more affordable product. i don't ever think that happened, the company just keeps the profits. my big mac is still the same price, but now it's wrapped in "50% post consumer used" wrapper. where's the savings to the consumer?

using recycled plastic means less oil used to make new plastic, so why is oil still so high?

if reloading ammo reduces my cost of shooting, then why isn't recycling reducing my cost of living?

again, in the end it's not the financial side of things, but the ecological impacts - if we actually use recycling as intended, that's one less strip mine, one less clear cut forest, etc. etc.

i think it's where human greed, pompousness, and hipocracy meets recycling that causes the problem, and armorpl8chikn hit the nail on the head in his post above. everybody wants to save the world; until of course, it becomes inconvienant or non-profitable - and my great, great grandkids appreciate their morality.

if the science is good, recycling is worth it, no matter what the financial cost. they can always make more cash, they're not making more earth.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

When I first learned about the 'garbage barge' from NY and whatnot, that just goes out into the Atlantic and dumps it all, I just shook my head.

I figured then, won't be long before mankind has a "garbage shuttle", cause we used up all the room here.

Recycling, can be a benefit. As long as it is legit and feasible. The idea though, of washing/drying/ironing, and/or folding my garbage is eleventeen steps beyond, though.

 

[TN_Warrior808]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I know in Hawaii they have the 5 Cents per bottle to help recycle. Which is a good way for the state get more income. Not a lot of people are gonna recycle for 5 cents. However I know an old man that dumpster dives every weekend on base to get bottles and cans to earn money. So for someone like him he is making 100% profit off of lazy people who don't care about 5 cents.

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TN_Warrior808</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know in Hawaii they have the 5 Cents per bottle to help recycle. Which is a good way for the state get more income. Not a lot of people are gonna recycle for 5 cents. However I know an old man that dumpster dives every weekend on base to get bottles and cans to earn money. So for someone like him he is making 100% profit off of lazy people who don't care about 5 cents. </div></div>

Theres a retired burlington northern guy at elk camp who collects all the beer cans and recycles them.. Maeks some petty good douch too as he usually collects anywhere around 900-1500 coors light cans between 7 guys for a week

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

Penn & Teller call BULLSHIT on recycling, Part 1: <object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zzLebC0mjCQ"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zzLebC0mjCQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

Penn & Teller call BULLSHIT on recycling, Part 2:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wS1dv3iat8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wS1dv3iat8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Penn & Teller call BULLSHIT on recycling, Part 1: [video: youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzLebC0mjCQ[/video]

Penn & Teller call BULLSHIT on recycling, Part 2:
[video: youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wS1dv3iat8[/video] </div></div>

Psst ... part 3 is up here ...

 

[High Binder]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A) keeping shit out of landfills which impacts ground water or produces toxic gases as it decomposes is a good thing.</div></div>

Let's not forget to mention the gasses/chemicals emitted/used as they're recycled or carted around the nation... What type of gas would you're average plastic emit as it decomps?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B) the Penn and Teller vid was heavy on poking fun at urban dipshits and light on facts and figures. Here is one fact that I am surprised they missed - the crying Indian from the 1970s, was NOT an Indian.</div></div>

I suspect they omitted it because it's not important or relevant to the context of their show.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">start asking about the financial side of things. Hint - they ain't in business b/c they are loosing money.</div></div>

They are loosing money though. They're in business because they're heavily subsidized.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I have delt with dozens of private firms that receive no subsidies and which make quite a margin in the recycling industry.

With respect to landfills - radon is a very common gas. And then at the other end of the spectrum, methane is another gas that is produced in a land fill environment. Guess what? It is often reclaimed to provide a fuel source for fleet vehicles -> recycled. With respect to 'average plastic' - you should A) look into PVCs B) realize plastic off gases most when new and in use -'this is why new carpet or new cars smell - it is poison C) understand that a simple plastic bottle takes @ 500 yrs to decompose. Since those same plastic bottles / bags can be made into anything from fleece clothing to park benches - why wouldn't you re-use it?

Good luck

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

This is a sore subject for me, I work in the industry. But before I get to that. . . . . .
My city just recently started the recycling program, and my wife LOVES it! she thinks it is the greatest thing on earth. Before we had a can, she would drive our fucking GARBAGE 12 miles to recycle it. I was pissed, but she wouldn't listen to reason.
Having worked as a contractor inside the counties contracted waste facility, I've seen how they just sort the trash as it comes in, the trash trash is burnt, or buried, and the recyclable stuff is sent to another facility. So now that they have stooges like me to sort the waste for them, they must be makin big bucks, and whats more they charge everybody for the damn can.
Now back to the business side of it, I'm surprised at every turn in the recycling business. First of all, they get you coming and going, they charge the guy who generates the waste a fee to dispose of it, and then they end up selling it off to wherever they can get the most money.
The worst part is that the EPA and other regulators have made it so that commercial entities simply cannot afford to not recycle everything, and the stupidest things come through our warehouse to be burned, recycled or some other thing. I understand that we cant be dumping drums of Ethylene down the drain, but they have gone way beyond what I would call safe. Some of the very things you and I dump down the drain like Hydrogen peroxide mouth rinse, or even Drano, are packaged up in 20$ worth of shipping containers and then shipped across the country to be incinerated.
I am all for putting things in the right place, and recycling what we can without being unreasonable. But this is ridiculous sometimes, I have personally seen small businesses pay a dollar a foot for florescent
bulbs to be recycled, and then I hauled them from Kalispell MT to Phoenix Az. To be crushed, remove the small amount of mercury, then the glass and aluminum ends are sold as scrap to be remade into something else, usually to china.
The costs to companies, corporations, and government is just stupid large, every place I go has a person dedicated to collecting and designating waste and recyclables. The money and time spent, as well as the containers, and shipping cost's are tremendous. For example, a 4oz bottle of Sweet's? they would drum that up in a locking sealed 5 gallon bucket with a bag liner and then filled with an absorbent packing material such as vermiculite, label it as a corrosive ammonia solution, and ship it to an incinerator down in port arthur. And CFL's? oh what a waste of truck space!

Its a huge business, and everybody is doing quite well. Its hard not to when customers are forced basically to use your services

 

[High Binder]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have delt with dozens of private firms that receive no subsidies and which make quite a margin in the recycling industry. </div></div>

Perhaps in metals, rubber and maybe glass but I don't believe for a second paper and plastics garner any profit without subsidies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With respect to landfills - radon is a very common gas.</div></div>

Radon is a common gas that comes from the ground, not decomposing trash or recyclable materials. Radon emissions has to do with where the landfill is located not with what is put into the landfill (unless you're dumping radioactive materials in there).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And then at the other end of the spectrum, methane is another gas that is produced in a land fill environment. Guess what? It is often reclaimed to provide a fuel source for fleet vehicles -> recycled.</div></div>

Methane is from rotting bio-matter. Guess what, recyclables such as glass/plastic/rubber/etc. do not give off methane.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With respect to 'average plastic' - you should A) look into PVCs B) realize plastic off gases most when new and in use -'this is why new carpet or new cars smell - it is poison </div></div>

Yes they degas but like you said only when new, this is why the 'new car/carpet' smell goes away over a short period of time, it's a product of their manufacture regardless of being recycled or not. People tend not to throw away or recycle new items so... what gasses?


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> C) understand that a simple plastic bottle takes @ 500 yrs to decompose. Since those same plastic bottles / bags can be made into anything from fleece clothing to park benches - why wouldn't you re-use it?

Good luck
</div></div>

I agree it's a good idea to reuse plastics but my point was that it costs more to reuse plastic than it does to simply make new plastics.

Good luck

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

Again - I'd just strongly encourage people esp like you to visit some of these industries - it is nothing like you think.


Good luck

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

I think the one thing the video left out is, well hell it's 3 things:

A) Plastic is floating around the ocean and doesn't break up in water, it requires sunlight to break up - killing fish off with trash is not good for the environment.

B) Trees for paper, the answer is not to just grow more trees, yeah it may cost a bit but it still saves trees, which of course do generate oxygen for us to breath.

C) We should be using bamboo for paper, grows faster, produces more, and it also releases more 02 than any other plant species in the world...

I see their point but they limited their scope to money.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again - I'd just strongly encourage people esp like you to visit some of these industries - it is nothing like you think.</div></div>

Mo, if learning that radon and methane come from recyclable materials and that these industries are turning a non-subsidies based profit, is what you garner by visiting these 'industries' I think I'm better off sticking to my previous convictions.

On that note, I see that you're passionate about your position but the evidence you've cited is patently false, does that not make you question your beliefs about your information source if not the whole recycling 'industry' as a whole?

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

To all who are concerned about 'RADON', this is not a "decaying garbage" issue as seems to be perceived here. Radon is the byproduct gas of decaying radioactive materials.

As I have been taught, there is naturally occurring radioactive materials all over the earth's crust. Just some areas have higher concentrations of certain materials, ergo "rich" areas suitable for mining. But radiation (small amounts) occur practically everywhere, and it is the natural decay process that gives off Radon. As a gas, it will come up through the basement floor, and more specifically the cracks in the floor, and it will be 'contained' by the insulating properties as well as the 'vapour-barrier' properties built into our energy efficient homes.

If you have a Carbon-Monoxide (CO) detector, the proper placement of it, is the lowest point of the house. This is for initial detection. If you have a Radon detector (Rn), then the proper placement for this would be up around the top-floor ceiling. As this is where it will accumulate, and concentrate.

But the point of all this, is that Rn can be both detected AND gathered anywhere on the earth's crust. Just some GEOGRAPHICAL areas are more prone to its release, due to higher concentrations of other radioactive materials.

"Uranium City" Saskatchewan and it's surrounding area is bad for this. So's I've been told by a previous miner/inhabitant.

 

[kaput]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

Worth it? depends on all the specifics. Like others have pointed out, the effects of recycling for profit or environmental safeguarding have their limitations. I enjoy separating plastics, glass, metals, and other stuff from the food waste and "trash" just because its neater and doesn't add more weight to the weak plastic trash bags. Being a college student I already try to not spend as much as possible. Recycling or reclaiming are just little steps to make that easier.

Empty cereal boxes and pizza card-boards= targets.
glass jars and plastic containers= brass containers, parts separators, etc.

I've started collecting metals for scrapping. Got $6 for a 3/4 full quart size cottage cheese container of .22lr brass. If I hadn't had anything else I would have only made back my gas money.

Need a brass tumbler? just fill a 2liter with brass and media and chuck it in a drill.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter McGavin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you think?</div></div>

I think in your wife's situation the recycle trucks are going by whether she recycles or not, so she might as well recycle.

In my particular city, we get a tiny rebate (very tiny) for the value of the recyclables that reduces the cost of the trash bill. The rebate is negotiated every year based on the estimated market value of the recycled materials.

I have far more recyclables than trash, so without this system I would have to pay for a second trash can instead of getting paid for a recycle can. So clearly the recycling system here is to my advantage.

 

[Jim See]

Re: Recycling is it worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the one thing the video left out is, well hell it's 3 things:

A) Plastic is floating around the ocean and doesn't break up in water, it requires sunlight to break up - killing fish off with trash is not good for the environment.

B) Trees for paper, the answer is not to just grow more trees, yeah it may cost a bit but it still saves trees, which of course do generate oxygen for us to breath.

C) We should be using bamboo for paper, grows faster, produces more, and it also releases more 02 than any other plant species in the world...

I see their point but they limited their scope to money. </div></div>

I live in WI, what was a huge paper industry state, we have trees comming out our ass, falling over dead because they arn't worth shit anymore, and paper production is down more than 50% from 25 years ago. Fact is computer/email has eliminated a huge demand in the buisness world and personal life. Same reason the USPS is losing money, lack of mail volume. Mills are closing 1000 have been laid off. So they can take a government subsidized job sorting shit.

Recycling paper is a chemical process, cost to envirnment?
And the recycled pulp still has to be manf. into paper. Same as wood pulp. <span style="font-weight: bold">35 tons of pulp wood can be loaded and hauled to the mill in less than 1 hour, how long and how far does 35 tons of paper need to travel to be recycled??</span>

Plastic;

If you take a 24 pack of water bottles and compress them into a solid plastic block it would weight about 2 oz. what did that cost to cart around the country side to recycle. A god dam 8 ton truck hauling 1500 lbs of plastic shit burning enough oil to make 1500 lbs of plastic bottles.

This problem is easy to solve; <span style="font-weight: bold">Quit drinking water out of a fucking plastic bottle!!</span>