"Red Flag" thoughts...

[Bdevr]

This red flag law b.s is coming. We all know it. And we all know it is unconstitutional garbage, no need to rehash that.

So as of now, a family member, neighbor, asshole from the coffee shop, etc can tell the Gestapo that you seem like a threat to others and BOOM! Your god given rights are revoked.
So how far of a stretch is it for that to turn to "read something, say something" if your online posts scare some dumb sheep?

For example: We have trolls on this site. How long until the president is set (or mechanism is created) For said troll to drop a dime on Army Jerry? Most of us are not tech savvy enough that big brother couldn't find us in a heartbeat. That kind of stuff already happens with Facebook and other social media sites, so how long before it comes to forums such as This?

I know it sounds a bit tin-foil hat, but looking at how things are progressing in this country, nothing would surprise me.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I went to a town hall on the proposed Utah law. It can only be a parent, step parent, child or step child or someone who is living with the person and has been for at least 6 months. Not any joe blow on the street.
There were about 90 people there, about 85 werr against it. I am opposed on principle/consitution. I do see what they are trying to do, just dont agree with the method.

 

[Bender]

It’s the camels nose under the tent. It needs squashed ASAP.

 

[XLR308]

Who is to say that every LEO or public official can't be flooded with the same shit and have it turned against them ?
Just a phone call away.

 

[Mwalex]

A red flag law is a hunting license for legal gun owners.

 

[Alphatreedog]

I went to a town hall on the proposed Utah law. It can only be a parent, step parent, child or step child or someone who is living with the person and has been for at least 6 months. Not any joe blow on the street.
There were about 90 people there, about 85 werr against it. I am opposed on principle/consitution. I do see what they are trying to do, just dont agree with the method.

Do you know how many kids will falsely accuse a family member because they didn't get their way on something .

 

[GUN NUT in IA]

Who is to say that every LEO or public official can't be flooded with the same shit and have it turned against them ?
Just a phone call away.

Are those the same "LEOs" and "public officials" that the law doesn't apply to anyway?

(National CCW for retired police officers, professional courtesy, body guards with automatic weapons in Washington, D.C, administrative leave as opposed to posting bail, etc)

 

[deltawiskey]

This red flag law b.s is coming. We all know it. And we all know it is unconstitutional garbage, no need to rehash that.

So as of now, a family member, neighbor, asshole from the coffee shop, etc can tell the Gestapo that you seem like a threat to others and BOOM! Your god given rights are revoked.
So how far of a stretch is it for that to turn to "read something, say something" if your online posts scare some dumb sheep?

For example: We have trolls on this site. How long until the president is set (or mechanism is created) For said troll to drop a dime on Army Jerry? Most of us are not tech savvy enough that big brother couldn't find us in a heartbeat. That kind of stuff already happens with Facebook and other social media sites, so how long before it comes to forums such as This?

I know it sounds a bit tin-foil hat, but looking at how things are progressing in this country, nothing would surprise me.

Not tin-foil hat at all!! Some states are already trying to require 2-3 years of your social media and internet search history.
DW

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Not tin-foil hat at all!! Some states are already trying to require 2-3 years of your social media and internet search history.
DW

Every tic in those states has something to hide, could be that info/photos needs to be made public. You can't fight a fire this large by pissing on it. Bring in that, which kills fires. If it does not stop soon forces will be brought to bear, that will kill it one way or the other.

 

[JFComfort]

The tinfoil hat folks have been the only ones getting it right lately.

 

[Fig]

That depends. There are as many conspiracy theories on the left as there are in the right.

 

[JFComfort]

That depends. There are as many conspiracy theories on the left as there are in the right.

Probably more truth to both sides than we will likely ever know.

 

[davsco]

i just don't get why it has to be guns and only guns. if someone is such a threat to themselves or others, why aren't they (and not just one method of doing damage) put away until the threat subsides?

 

[diverdon]

I went to a town hall on the proposed Utah law. It can only be a parent, step parent, child or step child or someone who is living with the person and has been for at least 6 months. Not any joe blow on the street.
There were about 90 people there, about 85 werr against it. I am opposed on principle/consitution. I do see what they are trying to do, just dont agree with the method.

Next year they will amend it to include teachers, school staff, doctors and nurses. The following year cops, coworkers, employers, associates, clerks and Walmart shoppers.

 

[308220]

I went to a town hall on the proposed Utah law. It can only be a parent, step parent, child or step child or someone who is living with the person and has been for at least 6 months. Not any joe blow on the street.
There were about 90 people there, about 85 werr against it. I am opposed on principle/consitution. I do see what they are trying to do, just dont agree with the method.

Roughly 4% in favor. But it seems the "vast majority" are for it! Again, that ghost "majority" nobody ever sees.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Next year they will amend it to include teachers, school staff, doctors and nurses. The following year cops, coworkers, employers, associates, clerks and Walmart shoppers.

Now that I could believe!!

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

It's about guns because all of this legislation is about making very wealthy and powerful people omnipotent. And to do that/get that they have to liquidate anyone who has less than they have and that means everyone.

And they can't liquidate We the People if we are armed. So, step one of the "Final Solution" to liquidate We the People is to disarm US so we have no recourse - the only reason to disarm a free man is to make a slave of him.

It's not who wants to disarm US, it's *why* they want US disarmed that is making me very jittery. once we are disarmed we all know what comes next.

Right?

VooDoo

 

[Unknown]

States such as Utah can make as many qualifiers about whose complaint can initiate a "red flag" seizure, but all the qualifiers won't get around the pesky constitutional provision about people having a right to due process regarding seizure of property.

Even if the state initiates some kind of hearing prior to the seizure of someone's firearms, they would still be stuck with having to provide some sort of "just compensation" for the seized property. I completely understand why someone who had their firearms, or other property seized would want to receive a fair value for that property.

What makes the red flag laws even more ironic, is that would put all the anti-firearms states in the position of being gun dealers, because eventually, they would have to begin selling the seized firearms in order to pay for all the seizures. One $100 High point pistol isn't a big deal, but if the state had to begin repaying people for collections containing $100,000 worth of firearms, those states would eventually have to start paying for them. And all those anti-gun citizens would eventually realize that it was their actions that caused their state to become a firearms dealing state.

 

[Erno86]

My boss said...that when I go to the range "You might as well have a bullseye painted on you're back."

 

[Blue Sky Country]

While I "see" the original intent of the thinking behind "red flag" laws, what I KNOW is that it will be exploited, abused and employed as a weapon in personal and family vendettas. This is called thinking realistically, and I hope the makers and endorsers of this law knew the implications of what they were doing. Perhaps it was their intent all the way.

Pandora's box has now been opened, on a scale that has not been seen since the late medieval Inquisition. Before this, arguments within families and social circles are normal and usually resolved or left alone. Now, if someone has a disagreement with another, and one person is willing to take things to whole new levels, this just gives them a potential weapon to ruin others.

To put it in simple terms, July 4th and Labor Day family barbecues are going to take an interesting turn, and I do not mean in a good way either. The entire structure of family and relations between family members, will be turned upside down now, by paranoia and distrust.

I am a realist. 100%. And I see nothing good that can come from this.

 

[Rthur]

I went to a town hall on the proposed Utah law. It can only be a parent, step parent, child or step child or someone who is living with the person and has been for at least 6 months. Not any joe blow on the street.
There were about 90 people there, about 85 werr against it. I am opposed on principle/consitution. I do see what they are trying to do, just dont agree with the method.

Due Process...
I foresee abuse of this idea to the nth degree.
Orders of protection in regular channels are handed out like candy at a parade if you are female.
This needs to be smashed all to hell by the SCOTUS yesterday.

R

 

[Carlos Danger]

As much as my concern with the broad range of potential "accusers" my larger concern is with the "deciders" who would judge the situation, or look at your internet social profile, and determine what is considered a "threat" in their mind (or lack thereof). Post a statement of hatred for anti 2A legislation, a seething displeasure for someone creating a sanctuary city for illegals, or anything along those lines "oh, this is a hate filled and potentially dangerous person. They must be disarmed completely and immediately".

How many of you have posted on here, or other sites, anything but hugs, kisses, and teddy bears for every single human being on the planet?

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

One would think that the ACLU would be all over this.
Yeah their not really about actual civil liberties.

 

[Bdevr]

As much as my concern with the broad range of potential "accusers" my larger concern is with the "deciders" who would judge the situation, or look at your internet social profile, and determine what is considered a "threat" in their mind (or lack thereof). Post a statement of hatred for anti 2A legislation, a seething displeasure for someone creating a sanctuary city for illegals, or anything along those lines "oh, this is a hate filled and potentially dangerous person. They must be disarmed completely and immediately".

How many of you have posted on here, or other sites, anything but hugs, kisses, and teddy bears for every single human being on the planet?

Exactly! It won't be long before someone tries it. When it comes to liberals, they only concern themselves with the law when they are trying to impose them on others (us). They are morally and intellectually superior, so can can ignore/alter laws whenever they see fit. Just because a busy-body dogooder has no standing to call the feds to take your guns, that won't stop them from trying.

 

[2ndamendfan]

As much as my concern with the broad range of potential "accusers" my larger concern is with the "deciders" who would judge the situation, or look at your internet social profile, and determine what is considered a "threat" in their mind (or lack thereof).

Okay, I am going to stick my neck out and make a confession. I went to the town hall with an open mind. I was against red flag laws, from the point of confiscation.
When you see that the Stoneman-Douglas shooter had something like 43 interactions with police/school administrators. The thought obviously comes to mind, well why did they do nothing. Much like when a person gets their 10th DUI after killing an innocent family. I think that is human reaction.
In the town hall we all agreed that we all have a gut wrenching reactions to situations as mass casualty events. Same with everyone here. We are all in shock.
Before the town hall I understood the idea behind red flag laws but not their implementation.
Well that is where shit gets ugly.
So as someone stated above, it might only be family now, but if it doesn't work out like they like I can see it being expanded to almost anyone in your life.
But the big one was "the judge".
I can not remember the term but a judge only has to be 50.00001% convinced you pose a threat and not give your guns back (remember they have already taken them). Those pushing for the law agree that you have actually not done anything wrong YET!! So you are not charged with a crime, this is all before you have been charged or convicted of anything.
It was said that "probable cause" that a LEO can use should be about 75-80% sure of a crime and "beyond a reasonable doubt" is 99.9999%.
So obviously 50.00001% is pretty fucking low, all while having no criminal charges brought up.
For me personally that is really where I quit listening to the "pro red flag" side.
I agree with @Rthur, courts should throw these out.
Again I get feeling the need to find a solution, but disagree on this approach.
You could tell the lady that worked for "suicide prevention" was getting pissed/frustrated.
She had a look of contempt on her face that said " come on people, we are talking lives and you are upset over property".

 

[Alphatreedog]

One would think that the ACLU would be all over this.
Yeah their not really about actual civil liberties.

Believe it or not I was at a IIA zeminar today . One of the things that I learned was that the ACLU finds Red Flag Laws a violation of Constulitional Rights . Pittsburgh Pa. is going full libtard withtis crap . Before I spell out what they're doing I would like to qualify it with the fact that Pa. has a Pre emption law . It is illegal for any municipality or city to pass firearms legislation . Firearms legislation is the reaponsibilty of the State . Further the Pittsburgh has been advised , counseled and notified that their actions are illegal . In fact their actions are a First Degree Misdemeanor puniahable by five years in prison as a violation of the Law of Pre emption , Oppressive Power statute , violation of Constitutional Rights and Violation of State Constitution . Further the Pa. Supreme court had previously handed down a decision stating the previous .
Pittsburgh is proposing and c9nspiring to pass a very comprehensive Assault Weapons ban and Extreme Risk Protection Law/ Red Flag Law .
Focusing on the Extreme Risk Protection Law the most disturbing part is that the
NRA supports Red Flag Laws . You read that right . The NRA not only supports Red Flag Laws but purports that it's membership overwhelmingly supports these " common sense measures ".
Under Pittsburgh's ERP Law criteria for firearms confiscation include ;
Purchase of a firearm . If you have purchased a firearm within 189 days of claim it is a qualifier . So if you buy a firearm you are guilty .
Animal abuse . One of the qualifiers for animal abuse is hunting . ( As God Is my witness )
As for the NRA I sat and watched thevideo that the NRA produced in support of Extreme Risk Orders . The seminar was put on by Firearms Owners Against Crime .
One of the speakers was a IIA lawyer who specializes in Pa. Pre-emption and IIA Law . It was a real eye opener . If you are a Pa. resident there is a IIA rally May 6th in Harrisburg at the Captital Bldg. In the Rotunda . You need to be there . According to the IIA lawyer the elected claim that they don't hear from the gun owners but the hear from the antis all the time . It's time to be heard . And please do not defend your absence with bravado of what you will do when the time comes or well nobody else shows up . You are needed there . Your kids , your friends , the State and the Country need you there . If you do not care about your Rights why should your elected ? If you took an Oath to defend the Constitution You need to be there .

 

[Dougie308]

I went to a town hall on the proposed Utah law. It can only be a parent, step parent, child or step child or someone who is living with the person and has been for at least 6 months. Not any joe blow on the street.
There were about 90 people there, about 85 werr against it. I am opposed on principle/consitution. I do see what they are trying to do, just dont agree with the method.

There are certainly people out there that have legal right to own a firearm that do not have the emotional or intellectual wherewithal to have one. However, I wouldn’t want to be the guy that drew the line.

 

[Inifinty]

I went to a town hall on the proposed Utah law. It can only be a parent, step parent, child or step child or someone who is living with the person and has been for at least 6 months. Not any joe blow on the street.
There were about 90 people there, about 85 werr against it. I am opposed on principle/consitution. I do see what they are trying to do, just dont agree with the method.

Elephant in the room no one on either side seems to be pointing out. And it really needs to be driven home.

If the person is a danger to themselves or others then why are they not taking the person into custody or psych hold for evaluation? Ok so they take the guns and drive away, now what's to stop the person from being a danger with a knife, bat, truck, poison, explosive, scissors, pencil, or any number of other things that the evil mind can think up to cause harm to others?

These laws aren't about stopping crime or helping victims.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

And in related news... the Aurora, Illinois shooter... was a convicted felon with a felony, and numerous domestic assault incidents and charges... who was issued a FID card in Illinois... after a failed background check. When a second background check showed this... they never revoked his if or his firearm.

This guy should have been arrested and charged with illegal possession the minute his background was known... but nope... crickets.

The post above stating that these people, if a threat to themselves and others, should be in custody is right on. If the bar is high enough to justify an4th Amendment seizure of property, the bar is high enough to remand to psychiatric observation or custody.

These laws are aimed at the law abiding... not the criminal and criminally insane.

As usual.

Sirhr

 

[Alphatreedog]

And in related news... the Aurora, Illinois shooter... was a convicted felon with a felony, and numerous domestic assault incidents and charges... who was issued a FID card in Illinois... after a failed background check. When a second background check showed this... they never revoked his if or his firearm.

This guy should have been arrested and charged with illegal possession the minute his background was known... but nope... crickets.

The post above stating that these people, if a threat to themselves and others, should be in custody is right on. If the bar is high enough to justify an4th Amendment seizure of property, the bar is high enough to remand to psychiatric observation or custody.

These laws are aimed at the law abiding... not the criminal and criminally insane.

As usual.

Sirhr

Allowed to happen to push an agenda .

 

[Rthur]

And in related news... the Aurora, Illinois shooter... was a convicted felon with a felony, and numerous domestic assault incidents and charges... who was issued a FID card in Illinois... after a failed background check. When a second background check showed this... they never revoked his if or his firearm.

This guy should have been arrested and charged with illegal possession the minute his background was known... but nope... crickets.

The post above stating that these people, if a threat to themselves and others, should be in custody is right on. If the bar is high enough to justify an4th Amendment seizure of property, the bar is high enough to remand to psychiatric observation or custody.

These laws are aimed at the law abiding... not the criminal and criminally insane.

As usual.

Sirhr

State Police issue the FOID cards.
I couldn't agree more with your assertion.

R

 

[Alphatreedog]

And in related news... the Aurora, Illinois shooter... was a convicted felon with a felony, and numerous domestic assault incidents and charges... who was issued a FID card in Illinois... after a failed background check. When a second background check showed this... they never revoked his if or his firearm.

This guy should have been arrested and charged with illegal possession the minute his background was known... but nope... crickets.

The post above stating that these people, if a threat to themselves and others, should be in custody is right on. If the bar is high enough to justify an4th Amendment seizure of property, the bar is high enough to remand to psychiatric observation or custody.

These laws are aimed at the law abiding... not the criminal and criminally insane.

As usual.

Sirhr

Same with Gabbi Gifford . It was allowed . I'll bet she didn't think that she would git some and that it would be her shinig moment

 

[Strykervet]

It's all bullshit. All of these laws are now. It's an inch a mile at this point. If we don't stop it, it'll never end.

We need mass disobedience. We need large numbers of people willing to give up a few weekends here and there and participate in a march with your weapons and illegal magazines, etc. No ammo, no shooting, no getting into arguments with assholes on the side, it does no good and looks bad.

Look at how gay marriage and marijuana got legalized and that's what we need to do.

 

[Rthur]

It's all bullshit. All of these laws are now. It's an inch a mile at this point. If we don't stop it, it'll never end.

We need mass disobedience. We need large numbers of people willing to give up a few weekends here and there and participate in a march with your weapons and illegal magazines, etc. No ammo, no shooting, no getting into arguments with assholes on the side, it does no good and looks bad.

Look at how gay marriage and marijuana got legalized and that's what we need to do.

You must remember that the full force of the complicit media were behind those ideas.
Although they are more of a minority than gun owners.
Removal of morality is a cornerstone to destroy a culture/society.

R

 

[Alphatreedog]

It's all bullshit. All of these laws are now. It's an inch a mile at this point. If we don't stop it, it'll never end.

We need mass disobedience. We need large numbers of people willing to give up a few weekends here and there and participate in a march with your weapons and illegal magazines, etc. No ammo, no shooting, no getting into arguments with assholes on the side, it does no good and looks bad.

Look at how gay marriage and marijuana got legalized and that's what we need to do.

Read my response in the Feinstein and Polosi thread . We juat need to be seen and heard . Don't need civil disobedience and fuck the media . Just need our elected to see and hear . We are not and have not done that . Please read the other thread .

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

One day there was a fire,... an unstoppable fire that consumed more than the intended target.

 

[Fig]

Look at how gay marriage and marijuana got legalized and that's what we need to do.

Hey man, I not gonna judge you, but if you want to get high and marry some dude there’s no “we”.

 

[Rthur]

Okay, I am going to stick my neck out and make a confession. I went to the town hall with an open mind. I was against red flag laws, from the point of confiscation.
When you see that the Stoneman-Douglas shooter had something like 43 interactions with police/school administrators. The thought obviously comes to mind, well why did they do nothing. Much like when a person gets their 10th DUI after killing an innocent family. I think that is human reaction.
In the town hall we all agreed that we all have a gut wrenching reactions to situations as mass casualty events. Same with everyone here. We are all in shock.
Before the town hall I understood the idea behind red flag laws but not their implementation.
Well that is where shit gets ugly.
So as someone stated above, it might only be family now, but if it doesn't work out like they like I can see it being expanded to almost anyone in your life.
But the big one was "the judge".
I can not remember the term but a judge only has to be 50.00001% convinced you pose a threat and not give your guns back (remember they have already taken them). Those pushing for the law agree that you have actually not done anything wrong YET!! So you are not charged with a crime, this is all before you have been charged or convicted of anything.
It was said that "probable cause" that a LEO can use should be about 75-80% sure of a crime and "beyond a reasonable doubt" is 99.9999%.
So obviously 50.00001% is pretty fucking low, all while having no criminal charges brought up.
For me personally that is really where I quit listening to the "pro red flag" side.
I agree with @Rthur, courts should throw these out.
Again I get feeling the need to find a solution, but disagree on this approach.
You could tell the lady that worked for "suicide prevention" was getting pissed/frustrated.
She had a look of contempt on her face that said " come on people, we are talking lives and you are upset over property".

The basis of your assertion is guilty until proven innocent.
As they vilify gunowners to find acceptance in these tactics.
I'll wager PTSD/Military training and experience will be forthcoming as a Red Flag direction.

R

 

[sirhrmechanic]

The basis of your assertion is guilty until proven innocent.
As they vilify gunowners to find acceptance in these tactics.
I'll wager PTSD/Military training and experience will be forthcoming as a Red Flag direction.

R

Along with opinions expressed on Social Media. As one law already requires. In... oh yeah... Illinois!

One's protected utterances under the First Amendment will be used to destroy one's Second and Fourth Amendment rights. But I am betting the ACLU will make a bit of noise and then be told by their mega-donors... shut up. These are not the droids you are looking for. Move along.

The strategy proposed by Bloomberg (and funded by him to the tune of a billion dollars... yes... a billion...) is death by 1000 cuts against gun owners. That's why he set up his fake grass-roots "Mothers Demand Action" and his other false flag safety groups. Common sense proposals, submitted by paid 'grassroots' activists in every town, county, city, state government in the country. Common sense, you know. Fur der Kinder.

These people are James Bond level villains... They don't live in hollowed-out caves. They live in Manhattan townhouses and Hollywood mansions. And every James Bond-evil Spectre/Schmert type for the last 55 years would have LOVED to have 1/10th the power they do. Yet, noone does anything about them.

Guess Sean Connary lost his mojo along with his hair.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[Rthur]

Along with opinions expressed on Social Media. As one law already requires. In... oh yeah... Illinois!

One's protected utterances under the First Amendment will be used to destroy one's Second and Fourth Amendment rights. But I am betting the ACLU will make a bit of noise and then be told by their mega-donors... shut up. These are not the droids you are looking for. Move along.

The strategy proposed by Bloomberg (and funded by him to the tune of a billion dollars... yes... a billion...) is death by 1000 cuts against gun owners. That's why he set up his fake grass-roots "Mothers Demand Action" and his other false flag safety groups. Common sense proposals, submitted by paid 'grassroots' activists in every town, county, city, state government in the country. Common sense, you know. Fur der Kinder.

These people are James Bond level villains... They don't live in hollowed-out caves. They live in Manhattan townhouses and Hollywood mansions. And every James Bond-evil Spectre/Schmert type for the last 55 years would have LOVED to have 1/10th the power they do. Yet, noone does anything about them.

Guess Sean Connary lost his mojo along with his hair.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Mike should lead by example.
Disarm all his security to show solidarity.
I know this will never happen as he thinks he is ordained by god to do the thinking for all the little people.
You reference to Spectre is interesting as I mentioned to my wife recently that the Bond villains were operating in plain sight.

R

 

[W54/XM-388]

The "Red Flag" laws are simply there to allow "anonymous" reports to be made so the local SS "just doing our duty & following orders" LE types can go in and rob or murder citizens.

It does NOTHING to address any real problems because the authorities REFUSE to follow up on real threats as evidenced in many of the recent mass shootings, the "authorities" had multiple reports of problems and multiple people calling in saying something was wrong and flatly refused to do anything. Then they are worse than useless like in FL when the actual shooting starts, they all sit around waiting and making sure it's a "safe space for the killer" till they are done and leave, then go point guns at all the survivors...

In that Pulse nightclub business, multiple FFLs were calling in warning that this guy is off his rocker... but "somebody" was very interested in letting it happen.

Then you look at really dirty situations like the stuff going on in Houston where we probably never will know on "who's behalf" the police lied and perjured themselves to get a warrant to burst in and execute some citizens.... Oh and then have a big press conference saying why we need more gun control because the local SS doesn't like the Jews shooting back when they come to eliminate them...

 

[LawnMM]

The idea is decent, but they'll never do it properly without abusing the law, people's rights, and with due process, it'll be abused and used to over reach so in summary... I vote no.

 

[GUN NUT in IA]

The idea is decent, but they'll never do it properly without abusing the law, people's rights, and with due process, it'll be abused and used to over reach so in summary... I vote no.

The bad part of it is - we don't get a vote.

 

[Blutroop]

Do

It's all bullshit. All of these laws are now. It's an inch a mile at this point. If we don't stop it, it'll never end.

We need mass disobedience. We need large numbers of people willing to give up a few weekends here and there and participate in a march with your weapons and illegal magazines, etc. No ammo, no shooting, no getting into arguments with assholes on the side, it does no good and looks bad.

Look at how gay marriage and marijuana got legalized and that's what we need to do.

DO NOT go to a march with assault weapons and illegal magazines without live rounds. You must be willing and ready to defend your rights, not just bluff. If they try and unlawfully arrest (unarm) or try and confiscate you must take action. I understand you don’t want any drunken Tom foolery, but do you really want to bring all those illegal mags right to them just to be forced at gunpoint to line up and turn em all in?

 

[Inifinty]

The bad part of it is - we don't get a vote.

People need to quit trying to play in the progressives pool.

These laws aren't even logical.

Look at the third trimester abortion arguments recently. They argue their desire to abort a full grown baby around a handful of of corner cases where the mother could legitimacy be in jeopardy. But then they write the law so a Dr. can kill a child for any medical reason they may see fit.

They think we are stupid. And honestly I know the good people in this country are smarter and if they would just face the fact that the progressive is skilled at twisting the truth, then maybe we could just walk away from their ideas and make some real steps towards solving problems with sound justice behind the solutions.

 

[Mwalex]

Due Process...
I foresee abuse of this idea to the nth degree.
Orders of protection in regular channels are handed out like candy at a parade if you are female.
This needs to be smashed all to hell by the SCOTUS yesterday.

R

I think we have to understand that "due process" is no longer black and white and is now a malleable term depending on the politics involved. The "no fly list" circumvented due process. All of the people being condemned when accused of sexual misconduct before being convicted circumvented due process. Look no further than the Duke lacrosse team. Look at the Kavanaugh debacle. "Due process" no longer applies to certain groups of people and gun owners is quickly becoming one of them.

 

[Blutroop]

Any time any organization does a “red flag grab” a local group must arm them self’s, post up outside the building of the offenders, and demand the return or disarmament of that constitution violating department. Hopefully when word gets round, numbers will swell. We need another incident like the bundy cattle episode.

 

[Inifinty]

I think we have to understand that "due process" is no longer black and white and is now a malleable term depending on the politics involved. The "no fly list" circumvented due process. All of the people being condemned when accused of sexual misconduct before being convicted circumvented due process. Look no further than the Duke lacrosse team. Look at the Kavanaugh debacle. "Due process" no longer applies to certain groups of people and gun owners is quickly becoming one of them.

Why do we no longer value our rights?

The gravy train must be a little too nice to disrupt.

 

[Mwalex]

Why do we no longer value our rights?

The gravy train must be a little too nice to disrupt.

I think the gravy train is part of it but I also think there is something of "about time they got theirs" involved also. Many of these no due process situations are also lose-lose for the accused. The harder the kids from Duke fought their accusation the more they piled on. If you fight against a sexual misconduct accusation it is never because you might be innocent. This is an effect of a social justice society. People are now guilty until proven innocent, unless they get shot in the process, then they are just plain guilty.