Red flags?

[trve]

Hey all,

I am in the market for a new rifle. Will be in 308 and almost entirely for target shooting. Ive narrowed it down to three options, all within a couple hundred of each other:

1. Bergara Premier HMR Pro
2. Sako S20 precision
3. Howa 1500 build (Timney trigger, KRG chassis, etc)

Before anyone rolls their eyes, this isnt a "help me pick," thread- I have a pretty good handle on each rifle's perks. What I want to know is if theres any downside I should be aware of- things like poor customer service from the company, a run of lemons (or poor quality control in general), their product not being what it used to be, etc. The kinds of things you wont hear about in reviews. Red flags that scream "stay away!" Cons I can weigh against each rifle's pros.

Id appreciate any wisdom you have to share!

EDIT: guess I also do have one rifle specific random question- cant find any info on replacing a Sako's barrel down the line. What are my options there?

 

[Action Guy]

I only have experience with the Sako S20 and the Bergara Premier (LRP 2.0). Of these two, the Bergara is the clear winner.

The Sako S20 is a terrible execution of what should be a good idea. The barrel is too thin for precision work and really barely able to squeak out MOA precision (for me anyway). The optical mount is terrible (interrupted or proprietary mount). Factory muzzle brake does very little in recoil reduction. The magazine is huge and the release is in front of the magazine. It is very long internally, but completely sucks otherwise. The precision stock was comfortable, but the rifle jumped aggressively off target no matter what I tried to stay on target. It became frustrating and miserable to shoot compared to other precision rifles I have. The modular thumb rest insert on the stock had a small crack. It came with lots of tools and stuff, but the manual covers every Sako ever made and is far too large. Positive: the action is very smooth and it cycles well. Definitely stay away from the Sako S20. There are so many better options in the market for the same money. It's sister, the Tikka T3X comes to mind.

Replace the S20 barrel? Replace the whole rifle. It's terrible.

 

[trve]

This is suuuuper helpful to know, thank you! Especially the bits about the controls. I am unlikely to be able to handle one, so those things are easy to overlook.

Appreciate you sharing!

 

[Sniperwannabee]

If you considered the sako why not a tikka? I would pick the tikka over all those you listed…by far

 

[trve]

Im aware of how this board feels about Tikkas. Im not interested in one right now, only whats on the list above. Thanks for your input though

 

[FuhQ]

Hey all,

I am in the market for a new rifle. Will be in 308 and almost entirely for target shooting. Ive narrowed it down to three options, all within a couple hundred of each other:

1. Bergara Premier HMR Pro
2. Sako S20 precision
3. Howa 1500 build (Timney trigger, KRG chassis, etc)

Before anyone rolls their eyes, this isnt a "help me pick," thread- I have a pretty good handle on each rifle's perks. What I want to know is if theres any downside I should be aware of- things like poor customer service from the company, a run of lemons (or poor quality control in general), their product not being what it used to be, etc. The kinds of things you wont hear about in reviews. Red flags that scream "stay away!" Cons I can weigh against each rifle's pros.

Id appreciate any wisdom you have to share!

EDIT: guess I also do have one rifle specific random question- cant find any info on replacing a Sako's barrel down the line. What are my options there?

Have you looked at the Remington 700 5R Milspec in .308 Win? It's the most accurate factory "out of the box" rifle I've ever shot. Simple trigger swap, retorque the action screws to 65 in-lbs. and you're in business.

 

[spife7980]

Im aware of how this board feels about Tikkas. Im not interested in one right now, only whats on the list above. Thanks for your input though

But why would you want any of the three you listed?

If it must be one of the three go with howa so you can replace everything but the action with a good part.

 

[beetroot]

Tikka in a KRG chassis.
I know every man and his dog has one but they flat out work.

Frank has said in his podcast the only factory rifles they consistently see that are without issues are the RPR and Tikkas.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Have you looked at the Remington 700 5R Milspec in .308 Win? It's the most accurate factory "out of the box" rifle I've ever shot. Simple trigger swap, retorque the action screws to 65 in-lbs. and you're in business.

You must have never shot a tikka

 

[trve]

Do people on this website make commission every time someone buys a Tikka or something?

 

[FuhQ]

You must have never shot a tikka

I have, and I also know they’re owned by Beretta, and that’s the worst CS in the industry. They think they or shit don’t stink. Which is why I refuse to buy one. And back when they first came out (2005/2006) I bought a Beretta eXtrema2 28” 12ga. with the KO system in Max4HD camo. Loved it. But it got stolen in 2008, and I never replaced it. But After dealing with their CS for other customers, I would never buy a Tikka. Swarovski is (used to be) the same way. Don’t know if they still are.

 

[Supersubes]

Do people on this website make commission every time someone buys a Tikka or something?

You could say the same thing for the same reason about the remington 700. It used to be the go to. Remington just spent too many years building mixed quality guns, and doesnt get the nod these days. Tikka took its spot.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I have, and I also know they’re owned by Beretta, and that’s the worst CS in the industry. They think they or shit don’t stink. Which is why I refuse to buy one. And back when they first came out (2005/2006) I bought a Beretta eXtrema2 28” 12ga. with the KO system in Max4HD camo. Loved it. But it got stolen in 2008, and I never replaced it. But After dealing with their CS for other customers, I would never buy a Tikka. Swarovski is (used to be) the same way. Don’t know if they still are.

How many Tikkas have you read about that needed to be returned?

Seriously, how many?

When put into perspective in regards to how many are out in the wild, I’m willing to bet that number is pretty damn low.

 

[FuhQ]

How many Tikkas have you read about that needed to be returned?

Seriously, how many?

When put into perspective in regards to how many are out in the wild, I’m willing to bet that number is pretty damn low.

Instant butthurt... Almost as bad as the Savage fanboys...

And the answer is quite a few, but not on this site, because of reasons just like your response...Really annoying fanboys being dicks when their favorite brand gets "attacked" by someone who has a bad experience. Honestly, what else is the internet for? You really only hear people bitch about stuff on the internet. On the internet, how many Remington 700's do you hear talked negatively about, compared to people talking about how good their's shoots? It's only folks bitching about Remington, and telling folks to "don't buy it, having it built will cost more than just buying ____________ brand..." Which, isn't exactly true, but that depends on how much your gunsmith charges you to do work. I've seen custom actions that still needed to face trued, because it's wasn't as square as it should have been for the price. But that's because nothing man-made is going to be perfect.

People use the internet as a tool to bitch...Rarely as a tool for positivity. Think about that, next time you get upset about someone saying your favorite brand isn't perfect...Because it's not.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I’ve owned one. Currently own none. It was a serious question, hence the word “seriously.”

 

[trve]

***TRIGGER WARNING: THIS POST DOES NOT END IN ME BUYING A TIKKA***

I think I am going with the Bergara Premier. Checks all my boxes now that I know about the issues with the Sako, and Im not really looking to do an expensive build at the moment. Id like to thank the one guy who actually answered my question.

 

[nn8734]

***TRIGGER WARNING: THIS POST DOES NOT END IN ME BUYING A TIKKA***

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Do people on this website make commission every time someone buys a Tikka or something?

Nah....it's The Hide and yer expected to go along to get along or *Yer Just Plain Stupid and Wrong!* Seriously, it's like going to Glock Talk and disrespecting a Glock (for any reason) you'll get a bunch who will just fuck with ya to get that satisfaction. Just roll with it - it's the Way The Hide works.

VooDoo

 

[SporterII]

I bought a new Howa in 308. Would not extract FGMM. Was told by the importer not to use Federal ammo. I called and also spoke with their gun smith. He told me he was busy fixing these “ by the pallet”. Pos with the worst customer service. My experience.
The 5R has been great. I have had several. A bargain.

 

[KnowNothing256]

I don’t have the HMR Pro, but I’ve modified my base HMR enough to basically end up there. As long as the barrel shoots, you’ll really like the gun. The Premier bolt is quite nice, the feel of the whole thing is good, the HMR stock is quality (esp if you clean up the contact surfaces), and of course Trigger Tech is a pleasure to operate.

It’s a bit of a pain if you want to swap the barrel, but not as much as it used to be. Buy with confidence, and pray the Premier barrel shoots.

 

[SporterII]

“What I want to know is if theres any downside I should be aware of- things like poor customer service from the company,”

You’re welcome.

 

[Lunar95]

Hey op, have you thought about a tikka? Maybe in 6.5?

 

[Keeper22]

I will give you some info from someone that has been selling guns for a while. I will give you what I know about what you asked and a few others for future reference should a question arise. We sell a lot of Bergara rifles and have had no need to deal with CS they have not had issues and the owners love them, in my opinion if someone wants an inexpensive rifle the CVA is the way to go, Bergara barrels, same quality build, they are sister companies. BTW a large ,majority of Browning rifles have Bergara barrels on them. Good luck on your choice.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I have, and I also know they’re owned by Beretta, and that’s the worst CS in the industry. They think they or shit don’t stink. Which is why I refuse to buy one. And back when they first came out (2005/2006) I bought a Beretta eXtrema2 28” 12ga. with the KO system in Max4HD camo. Loved it. But it got stolen in 2008, and I never replaced it. But After dealing with their CS for other customers, I would never buy a Tikka. Swarovski is (used to be) the same way. Don’t know if they still are.

I can tell you that unless you're buying a Remington from "new Remington" you won't have a warranty. Ask how I know about this. Want to buy a POS 700 5R?

 

[GIXXER2000]

Buy a used AI-AT and be done with it. That way you have all the options you could ask for. here is a posting in the

HD1911​

Excellent condition non-folding AI AT 6.5CM in Sage Green for sale. This has the small firing pin, as it was built in 2020. Has the High action rail. This has an AI North America WinTac Proof Research 24” 6.5CM 1:8” barrel, not the British AT barrel. I have only shot factory Hornady Match 147gr ELD through it but it shoots very well. 361rnds down the pipe.

Optic and mount not included, but we could work something out if you wanted them. Also, I have 4 - 200rnd sealed cases of Hornady Match 147gr ELD (all same lot #) available for sale to the buyer if interested. $400 SHIPPED & INSURED for each sealed 200rnd case.

$3,650 SHIPPED & INSURED to your CONUS FFL for the rifle only

 

[Keeper22]

I will second the Remington CS being crap in the past, had a customer buy a brand new high end (don't remember exact model) Mountain Rifle, it would not shoot any better than 4 moa with any ammo. Sent the gun back to Remington and they confirmed bad barrel, said the gun was a year old (it was sitting on our shelf) and they would not warranty it but would sell him a barrel for 700.00. It took us 4 months and threatening the rep group with never buying another product from them for them to pull strings and make it right. I hope it is better now time will tell.

 

[FuhQ]

I can tell you that unless you're buying a Remington from "new Remington" you won't have a warranty. Ask how I know about this. Want to buy a POS 700 5R?

“New Remington” 5R? How cheap?

 

[DangerRanger]

I can tell you that unless you're buying a Remington from "new Remington" you won't have a warranty. Ask how I know about this. Want to buy a POS 700 5R?

Let’s hear it baby shout it from the rooftops

 

[mheimer_45]

I bought a howa when they first came around. 308 24” heavy barrel. Bedded B&C stock was every bit a 4 moa gun. Didn’t like varget or XBR. Didn’t like SMK’s. It’s currently at the smith getting a Krieger installed after sitting in the safe for 10 years.

 

[trve]

Thanks for sharing your experiences everyone, even the Tikka fanbabies. Good to hear Bergara's are reliable! Sounds like ill be happy

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I bought a howa when they first came around. 308 24” heavy barrel. Bedded B&C stock was every bit a 4 moa gun. Didn’t like varget or XBR. Didn’t like SMK’s. It’s currently at the smith getting a Krieger installed after sitting in the safe for 10 years.

Maybe just move on

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Thanks for sharing your experiences everyone, even the Tikka fanbabies. Good to hear Bergara's are reliable! Sounds like ill be happy

 

[mheimer_45]

Naw it was the first gun I bought when I turned 18. Surprising enough I’ve got 3 other Howa’s and they all shoot.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Naw it was the first gun I bought when I turned 18. Surprising enough I’ve got 3 other Howa’s and they all shoot.

O ya then keep it! New barrel will most likely fix it

 

[blackblue]

Thanks for sharing your experiences everyone, even the Tikka fanbabies. Good to hear Bergara's are reliable! Sounds like ill be happy

Know nothing about the Sako and don't even own a Tikka anymore, had the Bergara in hand and have a couple Howa's, to me the tikka gets recomneded because is a nice smooth rifle and almost never hear of one that won't shoot. You one of those people that's asks for advice and when you get good advice you do everything you can to avoid it?

 

[DocRDS]

Hey all,

I am in the market for a new rifle. Will be in 308 and almost entirely for target shooting. Ive narrowed it down to three options, all within a couple hundred of each other:

1. Bergara Premier HMR Pro
2. Sako S20 precision
3. Howa 1500 build (Timney trigger, KRG chassis, etc)

Before anyone rolls their eyes, this isnt a "help me pick," thread- I have a pretty good handle on each rifle's perks. What I want to know is if theres any downside I should be aware of- things like poor customer service from the company, a run of lemons (or poor quality control in general), their product not being what it used to be, etc. The kinds of things you wont hear about in reviews. Red flags that scream "stay away!" Cons I can weigh against each rifle's pros.

Id appreciate any wisdom you have to share!

EDIT: guess I also do have one rifle specific random question- cant find any info on replacing a Sako's barrel down the line. What are my options there?

Late to the party.

2000 called and whats its caliber back! 6.5 Creed is the new 308 baby. I mean its guns so you know you will have one eventually....

 

[Fig]

I'm going to need a detailed mental health history before I can tell you if you'll be subject to the new Red Flag Laws.

 

[bravesirrobin]

Imo, all the options you've listed are all too expensive for factory rifles. You can get a custom rifle for just a little bit more. Have you considered rifles like the ARC Nucleus rifle, Badrock Southfork, MPA BA PMR, etc?

 

[DocRDS]

Imo, all the options you've listed are all too expensive for factory rifles. You can get a custom rifle for just a little bit more. Have you considered rifles like the ARC Nucleus rifle, Badrock Southfork, MPA BA PMR, etc?

Howa Build is on the cheap (as in money---not quality) side, but your advice is solid...for a little bit more thats a lot of gun.

 

[nksmfamjp]

In the end, I’d rather have the Howa build, I think.

 

[TheOtherAndrew]

My first rifle was a Tikka ctr 20" in 6.5. Dropped it in a KRG Bravo.

For a complete beginner, I couldn't be happier in its performance with factory ammo to ~1200yd.

[Price point/performance] of a Tikka/Bravo is best there is IMO.

RPR is also damn good and Id say even better if you want a rifle you will stick to for 5yrs (because of barrel change vs Tikka barrel change - the action is smaller dia. than most barrels available (<1.1" vs 1.2" so you either get a wonky look, have to do extra trimming to outside of barrel or action or have to wait 8mths for a specific cur rifled barrel at that diameter or smaller) and getting barrel off is harder than you'd think, but there is a company that specializes in Tikka rebarrels - with button rifled barrels.

Tikka Prefit Gun Barrel | Tikka T3 / T3X Pre Fit Barrels

Tikka T3 / T3x Prefit Gun Barrels The Tikka T3 action is one of the smoothest actions on the market and they are often very accurate rifles right out of the box. Our Tikka prefit barrels take your rifle to the next level. You have a choice of fixed and variable shoulder barrels, for those that...

preferredbarrelblanks.com

Dont know anything bout others though so is what it is - but can attest tikka are well built/issue free....even if CS in Finland sucks idk the situation where it'd be useful anyway. But I've been told Im kinda stupid before so....

 

[NewsShooter]

Hey all,

I am in the market for a new rifle. Will be in 308 and almost entirely for target shooting. Ive narrowed it down to three options, all within a couple hundred of each other:

1. Bergara Premier HMR Pro
2. Sako S20 precision
3. Howa 1500 build (Timney trigger, KRG chassis, etc)

Before anyone rolls their eyes, this isnt a "help me pick," thread- I have a pretty good handle on each rifle's perks. What I want to know is if theres any downside I should be aware of- things like poor customer service from the company, a run of lemons (or poor quality control in general), their product not being what it used to be, etc. The kinds of things you wont hear about in reviews. Red flags that scream "stay away!" Cons I can weigh against each rifle's pros.

Id appreciate any wisdom you have to share!

EDIT: guess I also do have one rifle specific random question- cant find any info on replacing a Sako's barrel down the line. What are my options there?

Why a .308 and how far are you shooting "targets"? If it's 600 and under I'd get a .223.