Redding Die inconsistent seating depth

[Airw4ves]

So Im brand new to reloading and went ahead and started working up a load for my 6.5x47L rifle. Went through all the steps with the help of the articles here and youtube, and ended up at the bullet seating stage. Now Im using Lapua Brass, Barnes 140gr Matchburner Bullets, Redding Competition Dies (FL and Bullet Seater), Hornady Lock n Load Bushings, and a RCBS Rockchucker Press (Old version).

When I went to seat my bullets I kept getting variations, with the widest spread being as much as 0.01 difference. Went ahead and FL sized all my cases (0 firings)(figured it was worth a shot), and sorted my bullets. This helped bring it down to 0.004-0.005 variations but Im still not happy with that. I resorted to backing out and slowly adjusting for every single round, which got me the seating depth I wanted in order to head to the range but feel that something must be up that I need to fix. Not to mention it took forever to do.
Ive sorted bullets, adjusted the die to have very small gap between ram and die, cleaned out the die, made sure I was using equal force on ram, Double checked neck tension, and still get the swings. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Also, the die appears to be marking the bullets and it feels almost as if I have to pull the bullet out of the stem once seated. Not a ton of force but it certainly does need a tap to pop it free.

And one last thing, what is the acceptable amount of variation for field/comp use?
Thanks!

 

[Airw4ves]

[No message]

 

[digrazir]

It looks to me like either you are trying to load a compressed load or you have too much neck tension. As far as the ring mark on the bullet, it won't hurt anything, just go ahead and shoot it. Ray

 

[vh20]

How are you measuring length? Are you measuring base-to-ogive, or overall length? Also, I'm not familiar with that bullet, but if it is an ELD design, Redding makes a seating stem with a different shape for those.

 

[Airw4ves]

Powder charges are from 35-38gr in .3 incriments, so shouldnt be a compressed load. And Im measuring from base to ogive with a Hornady comparator.

 

[wilson1911]

You need to buy an expander to use first. Fresh brass out of the box will have really small necks. This makes your neck tension about 3.5 thou. Using the expander, it leaves you with about 1 thou neck tension, which will be enough, or you can resize them if you want. I use a 288 bushing on factory brass.

You have the love ring on your bullet, as well as deformation, which is caused by too much neck tension. I seat bullets with an arbor press/wilson seater and could not even manage to seat any at all without expanding first. I got exactly whats in your pic out of the box. Make sure you chamfer also.

You also need to measure CBTO, not COAL<----this gives you variations always.

As stated above, go ahead and shoot them.

 

[Airw4ves]

Would the VLD stem or a Sinclair Mandrel offer much help? Or do I just use the expander ball that came with then FL Sizing die.
Im currently using a .288 bushing in my sizing die

 

[spife7980]

Shake your bullets to ensure that you arent compressed. Thats the easiest method available lol. You can hear the powder shake.

Im seeing that lapua is reportedly .013 thick. (.013*2)+.264=.290-.002=.288 so your outside bushing is good provided your brass is actually that thickness. If its thicker than it will be adding however much thicker to your inside dimension and thats a possible source of the excessive tension which is a possible source of the run out.

I dont think that the vld stem will solve it as you have a perfect ring around the entire bullet. If the bullet was bottoming out in the stem then you wouldnt have perfect contact the whole way around by my figuring.

A mandrel will be a good idea but personally I would try it with the expander ball installed since you already have it. Measure the outside diameter of the new brass if you have any left and then measure those you have already done with the bushing before seating the bullet. Finally measure them with the expander installed. You neck tension issue should manifest itself there in those measurements.

 

[Sheldon N]

One big factor is that factory fresh brass is much more "grippy" on the bullet than brass that's once fired with a bit of carbon left in the neck. This is true even if your neck tension dimensions are not excessive. I personally don't consider brass really ready to do serious work with until it's once fired and run through my normal loading process. It should shoot fine as factory out of the box, but I like to do final load workup and testing under the same conditions it will be experiencing the rest of its lifespan.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't do anything other than shoot the brass and maybe do some preliminary load development to see what has potential. Then once its fired do your sizing etc and you'll see much easier seating force due to both less neck tension (dimension) and less bullet grip (carbon providing some lubrication for the bullet).

If you want to try to make the current bullets more consistent on seating depth, only thoughts I'd have would be to make sure you seat the bullet in one smooth and relatively quick motion. If you let the bullet go slow and "stop/stick/start" you'll see a lot more variation regardless of the amount of force you apply on the handle. Only part that really matters in my experience is how hard you hit the endpoint for cam over, but that's only good for a couple thou of variation from what I've seen. Other thing you could do is take the seating die apart and use a q-tip chucked in a drill with some metal polish to help clean up the inside of the seating stem and knock the sharp edges off. That should help mitigate both the bullet sticking in the seating die and marks on the bullet.

 

[Airw4ves]

Thanks for all the great info! I knew Id find it here.
Once my local dealer restocks the sinclair manrel I'll be picking up one of those, but for mean time I'll give that expander ball a try. Hope to get a rough range with these rounds then can fine tune with the once fired brass.
Thanks again everyone!