Sidearms & Scatterguns Regular guy CC pistol help.

D

Dirtdigger

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 9, 2011
92
1
40
South Dakota
#1
First let me say i'm not a pistol guy at all, so this is why i'm asking you guys that carry.

My dad is looking for a CC pistol to wear while he works. He is opening a business that is in a "not so nice" part of a "not so nice" town.

He is taking a CC class to get his permit but other than that has no experience with a handgun. Being a farm boy he and i have been around guns forever, just not pistols.

He is opening a meat shop so it is physical work and needs to be comfortable to wear. I don't know anything but i'm assuming nothing is comfortable all day. He is a "big boy" if that matters as far as holsters go.

I'm thinking an auto of some kind, i'm not a revolver guy at all. I don't know which caliber is best, to me 45acp would be a no brainer for knock down, but is recoil on a smaller handgun a problem?

I know I've asked alot but if someone could at least throw me in a direction to start looking that would be great. I'm doing the research on this for him, and I will probably as a gift buy him the pistol. I just want to make sure he is getting something practical, nice, and above all else reliable.

Since we don't get to hang out as much as we used to, i'm thinking of making us both take a defensive hand gun class together to get us both used to pistols and make us competent and not a liability. Anything good in the midwest as far as courses go? SD or NB preferably.

Thanks guys, have at it.
 
#2
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

Any pistol your are comfortable with works. I love a .45. Recently picked up a Springfield XDs and really like it. Recoil is very mild. Being in the meat shop your Dad could easily carry whatever he wants under an apron and keep it hidden. You have to figure out what you like. 1911 single action, new style double action only auto's like my XDs, Glocks. They are all good just purchase a high quality gun and learn to shoot it well. The more rounds fired the better you should feel with it. Caliber is like car color, find one you like then get really good with it. The more you shoot them the better they get and the better you get using it
 
#3
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

Go to a few stores and hold/feel a bunch. Buy what you like. Practice.
It's his store so from a pocket .380 to a Deagle .50 or shotgun to AR.
Whatever he wants and wherever he wants to put it.
 
#4
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

Maybe find a range that lets you rent pistols and see what he likes. +1 on the defensive course or just practicing a lot in general. A lot of guys can shoot pistols well static on a range with the pistol already drawn, but that's not realistic. My father in law shoots nice groups on the range, but once he starts punching out from his chest or drawing from the holster they start looking more like he's doing a shotgun qual. He's also a bigger guy and prefers outside the waistband holsters (OWB) to inside the waistband (IWB) if that helps.
 
#5
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

Ruger has a great lineup of concealed and non concealed light, small firearms. They have all received great reviews from many different sources. Give 'em a look. Light and small firearms that are great for all day carry, gotta have it available if you intend to use it rather that it sitting in a safe. And considering he is starting from scratch, its training and putting rounds down range that will win the day. The groups will tighten up with the training and shooting. Yes, .45acp is a great round but there are others. Not to start a caliber war but with modern ammunition designed for self defense there are many choices out there. .38+P, 9mm with or without (P+), .357mag all are choices. Bottom line. Find a firearm that is tolerable, then train and shoot rounds.
My 2cents, hope it helps and good luck.
 
#6
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

It comes down to how your pistol skills are. Small guns are harder to master and personally I wouldnt carry anything I am not capable of mastering. If you are recoil sensitive then get something in a smaller caliber. Hits are what matter. Nothing wrong with packing a .22 if thats what you are confisent with. Get something you are excited to shoot. If you dont want to shoot it you wont train with it. I prefer a 1911 but durring the summer I wear a ruger lc9. The LC9 is actually kinda fun to shoot so I practice often with it. Its slim and light, one of the few guns I like in a IWB. Glock 19 is a great gun all around and not bad to carry. Shop around but make sure its something you would like to shoot. Number one reason to own any gun is because you like it.
 
#7
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

My carry guns keep getting smaller and smaller. I find that comfort is number one. If I can't comfortably carry it, I won't.

Find the smallest gun you can confidently shoot and buy a good holster. GOOD holster.

I learned about holsters the hard way. I didn't want to spend money on a good one so I bought a bunch of cheap ones I never use because they suck. Then I did what I should have done from the beginning.
 
#8
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

I see this more as a home defense scenario then I would see it as CC. With that said, I think you could get away with having a bigger handgun on hand and maybe even having a shotgun/rifle hidden. Just as everyone else has said already, see what you and your dad will like best. From there, practice practice practice. From that you'll also find out what features you won't/will like in a gun. Imo, the lowest caliber I would go with is 9mm.
 
#9
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

AFTER you take your courses , get exp, find out what your confident with. Then practice carring concealed around the house.

When youve got it all down, youll know what works for you.

Revolvers are the most reliable, I always look at safeties, long trigger pulls, and ability to have a holster with a trigger lock (such as a serpa) if hard labor is conducted I sweat guard it and leave my chamber (semi auto) empty.
My carry depends on location, weather and danger. Ruger LCP or bond arms for summer lieasure carry, snub nose for inclamite weather or dirty enviroment . Cold weather or near known danger kimber 45, glock 22
 
#10
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

i might catch some heat on this, but revolvers are great for new pistol guys. some do not think they are sexy enough, slim enough, or just not into them. that is ok, but in the hands of a new pistol shooter, saftey and reliability are great. there are no clips to change, slides to jam, stove pipes and double feeds do not exist for a revolver.
Look a couple good Double action revolvers (Ruger LCR, SW jframes or bodyguards are popular and solid). there are small, hold 5 shots on average, and can loaded and carried with out worry. if needed you remove the weapon, aim, and squeeze.
NOTE: a good holser is critical to comfort and securing the weapon.
 
#11
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

For an older guy that's not been around many handguns, I agree with the revolver. Lots of good ones in any size/weight you like.

A smith 442 or 642 in 38+p is a pretty well rounded simple choice for nearly anyone.
 
#12
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

A few basic things to think about before going and feeling up a few, because that is going to be a big thing (controls etc).

1. If it's too big, you probably won't carry it
2. Go in knowing you aren't looking for a big range gun.
3. You have to be able to access and manipulate fast and accurately
4. Shot placement is the most important, not caliber
5. If you are going to defend yourself and others and not harm innocent by-standers, practice, practice, practice.
6. A revolver will always be more reliable than an auto. The magazine and moving slide are the weak links.
7. Less is more in my book for a CCW. Draw, aim, press.

That being said.. I vote for a 9mm over .45 with well placed shots. More rounds is always better, just in case and less recoil for faster follow-ups. Usually less weight and with the technology of today's ammo, the 9mm JHPs do quite well. You can't beat a good .38 revolver either.
 
#13
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

Hey Digger,

One thing that is to your benefit, you're not afraid to ask questions and seek input. Too many "guys" think shooting is a man-inherited right from what I've seen!
confused.gif


I agree with the revolver idea mentioned above! They are pretty intuitive, can be found relatively inexpensive. My opinion, stick with Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Colt- if you can afford one! As for autos, waaaaaay too many choices but get something that is comfortable to hold AND to wear. Another poster before me mentioned to not skimp on the holster - VERY VERY TRUE!!! Think of the firearm, holster, belt, pants as a SYSTEM, not pieces and parts that get hodged-podged together.

Commit to practicing!!! A LOT!! especially at first!! Get comfortable with muzzle blast, recoil, sight alignment, sight picture, manipulation of different features of the pistol, etc. I'd really REALLY hate to read about someone's firearm being used against them because a malfunction that could be quickly corrected wasn't. ya know what I mean?

Try out others that people have, borrow/rent if you can.

Best of luck!

-G45
 
#15
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

1: I would find a range gun shop that has a range and lets you rent their guns first.

2: Then plan on spending a Saturday afternoon there.

A: First, take your time, find a employee who is knowledgeable, and willing to spend all the time in the world with your dad, and your dad only.
B: Start checking out guns and getting a feel for them. Dry fire them, see how they point, see how they feel in your hand ect... Take note, if one feels good in your hand and it is something he likes take note of it and put it on the "rent" list. This process could take a few hours, hopefully it does.

3: Every gun he felt comfortable with, rent them, buy a lot of ammo and head to the range, heck, it might even be worth seeing if someone is available to give him pointers on shooting. From there keep narowing it down til you find the one or two he is the most comfortable with.




I went through all this about 2 years ago. Being a farm kid I knew my way around long guns, but not handguns. I decided to get my CCW and get a handgun. I went to our LGS with a good friend who knew his way around handguns and did alot of shooting. He was a huge asset.

Now right now I am going through your stage with my wife. She has never been into shooting, but is now interested in getting her CCW and getting a handgun. We are in the process of figuring out what gun will best fit her.



If it matters, I will share my experience on what I went through 2 years ago.

I went to our gun store and found a very helpful employee. We started checking stuff out, I was in there for about 5 hours if I remember right. I handled everything they had. I was set on 45, I knew I could handle it, so thats what I was looking at. Over the counter I really liked the XCM, M&P, Glock 36 and Glock 30. I rented them all with alot of ammo.
I remember I was in love with the XDM. If you asked me before the range, I would have walked out with the Springfield.

Off to the range. I loaded everything up, my buddy gave me pointers, after going through the paces, I realized I couldnt shoot the XDM... It didnt do it for me one bit, it didnt point right, didnt shoot right for me....
The G36, if was just to small for me, I couldnt manage the recoil with such a small grip (I have large hands)

All said and done, the M&P 45 seemed to fit me the best. So home I went to do some research on it to find out if there was any reliability issues with it.

I ended up buying it.

On a side note, I realized I had a huge love for the 1911's too...


A few things to consider. My biggest issue with the M&P 45 was the holster availability. There are holsters galore for the 9&40, not so much the 45. I like to try my holsters on to find "the one" So by getting a "oddball" gun you wont have that choice. You will have to end up ordering a holster to find one you like. I have way more holsters for my M&P in my drawer from trial and error vs my 1911. My 1911 I knew what holsters I liked when I left the store.

Also, dont be set on one particular carttrage. As it has been said, "a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45" that actually says alot. With todays bullets a 9mm can do a lot of dammage.

Hope that helps.
 
#16
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

I can't disagree with anything stated. I don't think, though, that it matters "revolver -vs- auto". I think an intelligent guy that works with his hands all day every day can practice and be very competent with revolver, a 1911, or a plastic auto.

I'd take him to a large gun store and see if he prefers one over the others.

I'd consider:
Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 special
Ruger SP101 in .357
a 3" 1911 in 45 acp
a compact Glock/Springfield/etc in 45 acp.

I do tend to err on the side of big and heavy, but I sure wouldn't feel like he made a mistake with a 9mm or a 40 either.

Funny, it comes down to, "buy something and practice a lot."
 
#18
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

no matter your choice in weapon, practice and training are the best thing you can do for your and others saftey.

Welcome to the world of CCW.
 
#20
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

Don't buy a gun for him. Buy a gun WITH him. Give him some advice and let him shoot a few and pick one that feels good.

I wouldn't carry a revolver but thats just me. Mainly it boils down to capacity. You also don't need a .45 unless you just want one. Again with me its a capacity issue. todays 9mm carry ammo will perform well. I did some water jug testing the other day and the 9mm mushroomed to within a couple thousandths of an inch of the 45.

I carry a Glock 19 Appendix position in the waistband. I can carry all day and do manual labor and sit in a car etc. and its comfortable as hell for me and conceals well. I drove out to AZ a couple months ago with no problems. I forget its there. A gentleman of girth probably wouldn't agree.
 
#21
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

Tackleberry was the very first responder to the OP's question.........

Tackleberry says "1911 single action, new style double action only auto's like my XDs, Glocks"

This is where you lose me Tackleberry. Do you know what "double action" means? The mere mention of the word "only" in the above quote contradicts your reference of a Glock and or an XD being "double action".

To my knowledge neither Glock or SA's XDs are double action. They are very much single action firearms. Plus, if you carry with a round in the chamber you ARE cocked and locked without a safety switch.
 
#22
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tackleberry was the very first responder to the OP's question.........

Tackleberry says "1911 single action, new style double action only auto's like my XDs, Glocks"

This is where you lose me Tackleberry. Do you know what "double action" means? The mere mention of the word "only" in the above quote contradicts your reference of a Glock and or an XD being "double action".

To my knowledge neither Glock or SA's XDs are double action. They are very much single action firearms. Plus, if you carry with a round in the chamber you ARE cocked and locked without a safety switch. </div></div>

Do *you* know what DA is??

Glocks are a kind of hybrid, but are more DA than SA...

When sitting in the holster, the striker spring is partially tensioned. The first stage of the trigger fully tensions it, stage 2 releases it. A shot fired from the trigger reset is fired SA, but removing your finger from the trigger uncocks the striker.

XDs, however, are indeed single action.
 
#23
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nothing wrong with packing a .22 if thats what you are confisent with.</div></div>

You had me up to this point... 22LR is not a good defensive round. This is coming from someone who thinks the caliber debates are overdone.

I love shooting 22. I have a couple of Ruger Mk II's and I don't have a couple of anything in my arsenal. A couple of 22LR's center mass likely won't stop anyone and they might just tick someone off.

I agree with everything else you wrote, but let's take the 22 off the table right now. It is comfortable and easy to shoot for a reason.
 
#24
Re: Regular guy CC pistol help.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skep_tic1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tackleberry was the very first responder to the OP's question.........

Tackleberry says "1911 single action, new style double action only auto's like my XDs, Glocks"

This is where you lose me Tackleberry. Do you know what "double action" means? The mere mention of the word "only" in the above quote contradicts your reference of a Glock and or an XD being "double action".

To my knowledge neither Glock or SA's XDs are double action. They are very much single action firearms. Plus, if you carry with a round in the chamber you ARE cocked and locked without a safety switch. </div></div>

Do *you* know what DA is??

Glocks are a kind of hybrid, but are more DA than SA...

When sitting in the holster, the striker spring is partially tensioned. The first stage of the trigger fully tensions it, stage 2 releases it. A shot fired from the trigger reset is fired SA, but removing your finger from the trigger uncocks the striker.

XDs, however, are indeed single action.</div></div>

Thank you. I was hoping to reply to that yesterday, but never got a chance.

To the OP: There's no perfect answer. Have him try as many handguns as you can get your hands on...I'd be surprised if he doesn't gravitate to one in particular. I'm pretty impressed with the XDs I handled yesterday and think it would be a good option, but there are lots of good options. Stick with something compact, but not a pocket gun if he's willing to carry something a little bigger. As a Very general rule, the bigger the handgun the easier it will be to shoot. This will equate to more enjoyment at the range; improved proficiency, and, therefore, increased likelihood of success use of the weapon should it ever be needed.

-The Kid.
 
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