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relative newb just starting to shoot off of bags. What are the basics?
- Thread starter AR Jon
- Start date
if I didnt have some stuff figured out after 53 years i think id go ahead and jump in the river with a rock around my neck
Your saint is a battle rifle. Get it an EOTech and run cqb drills with it timing yourself. For this stuff save and get a Tikka and swfa SS and get some Lr training with it. Also the online training here to help you get the fundamentals down as well as math concepts you will need to record and use your data for the rifle.
thats more or less exactly what i have planned, Lord Willing. Maybe different brands but same concept
sooo many good choices out there
Top 25 Sharp-Shooting 6.5 Creedmoor Rifles (2023)
Choices abound when it comes to top 6.5 Creedmoor rifles. Here are some of the best to get the red-hot round dead on target.
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With standard handguards your point of aim changes when you put the rifle on the rest and any downward pressure makes it worse, to help with the trigger you can try the JP yellow spring kit, it will reduce the pull and should still function reliably it is about 15.00, then you really need a free floating hand guard. This should help the mechanical accuracy, others have made good suggestions on training and practice
back to my ghetto local range today. A bit harder for me to set up on it because its downhill so I need to jack the rear bag up about 2ish inches. Ended up using a pile of 2x4s that people shoot off of. Not ideal.
In the end it was pissing me off because due to the setup and the angle of the B5 stock etc, the rear bag protrudes out somewhat from the back of the stock. So as I setup and load into the stock....yep, you guessed it, the chest/shoulder push the bag and the bag scoots forward and slides down the angled stock.
cest la vie
1st target was so so and I was trying this and that. 2nd target got a little better
25 yds standing behind the bench etc
Pretty sure that bottom right diamond is right at 2MOA. Others getting better too except im not sure what happened on the upper right diamond lol
Then i decided to improvise some and shoot off the bench without bags etc. I rested the grip on the bench and had the left hand and elbow setup some kind of way. i forget. I shot at a bare spot on someones leftover target at 50 yds. 10 shots. At first i thought I must have missed 2 but then i see I got 2 holes with 2 shots each etc. Good fun.
In the end it was pissing me off because due to the setup and the angle of the B5 stock etc, the rear bag protrudes out somewhat from the back of the stock. So as I setup and load into the stock....yep, you guessed it, the chest/shoulder push the bag and the bag scoots forward and slides down the angled stock.
cest la vie
1st target was so so and I was trying this and that. 2nd target got a little better
25 yds standing behind the bench etc
Pretty sure that bottom right diamond is right at 2MOA. Others getting better too except im not sure what happened on the upper right diamond lol
Then i decided to improvise some and shoot off the bench without bags etc. I rested the grip on the bench and had the left hand and elbow setup some kind of way. i forget. I shot at a bare spot on someones leftover target at 50 yds. 10 shots. At first i thought I must have missed 2 but then i see I got 2 holes with 2 shots each etc. Good fun.
Dont worry much about where the bullets land right now. Focus on squeezing all the way through the trigger with a blank mind and zero anticipation or reaction. That rifle prob won't ever shoot great groups but that doesn't matter right now. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire, then shoot a few rounds. Do that a lot, focusing on mindset and watching it all happen. Then you can grab a tikka or something cheap that will be accurate and see how much you have learned.
I might disagree somewhat with my wise colleagues here (take what they say to heart--get a class--best investment) about rifle accuracy
Your rifle CAN shoot "good" groups--around 2 MOA at 100 yards if you do your part. It wont win any precision competitions, but its nothing to snear at either. Most people can't hit the broad side of a barn. Yes around here 2MOA is total crap. But its relative--a stock AR is not a precision rifle. Still goes bang
Not to start a "im better so na na na" but your groups posted above are what I can get at 100 with both open sights and a red dot (aimpoint) from the bench. (16 in, no free float--crappy reman ammo 55gr SP, no bipod). And trust me, I am in no way a "good" shooter. Your rifle isn't the problem (yet).
ARs (before this stupid ammo shortage) are a great way to some cheap rounds down range and practice.
Your biggest bang for your buck equipment wise will to be to upgrade the trigger. Its a super easy job. Those stupid lawyer triggers force you to apply so much force to the gun that unless you are a master, you will move the gun.
Get behind your rifle and just practice the good fundamentals--listen to Frank's podcast I think episode 30 ish. Ton of great info in there.
Take a class.
Take a class.
Take a class.
Best investment you'll make
Your rifle CAN shoot "good" groups--around 2 MOA at 100 yards if you do your part. It wont win any precision competitions, but its nothing to snear at either. Most people can't hit the broad side of a barn. Yes around here 2MOA is total crap. But its relative--a stock AR is not a precision rifle. Still goes bang
Not to start a "im better so na na na" but your groups posted above are what I can get at 100 with both open sights and a red dot (aimpoint) from the bench. (16 in, no free float--crappy reman ammo 55gr SP, no bipod). And trust me, I am in no way a "good" shooter. Your rifle isn't the problem (yet).
ARs (before this stupid ammo shortage) are a great way to some cheap rounds down range and practice.
Your biggest bang for your buck equipment wise will to be to upgrade the trigger. Its a super easy job. Those stupid lawyer triggers force you to apply so much force to the gun that unless you are a master, you will move the gun.
Get behind your rifle and just practice the good fundamentals--listen to Frank's podcast I think episode 30 ish. Ton of great info in there.
Take a class.
Take a class.
Take a class.
Best investment you'll make
2 MOA might not be much to brag about.....but 2 MOA when owning and shooting rifles for less than 3 weeks? lol
I have a trigger and free float handguard etc on the way whenever Optics planet decides to finally fill the order
I saw in another post where u said:
so essentially the rifle is barely sitting on top of the bags with hardly any down pressure?
this has been part of my confusion since I am shooting these particular targets with 3 different levels of diamonds. At only 25 yds, the rear of the rifle has to move up and down a bit for the different levels of the diamonds.
ATM I only have these basic bags:
AFAIK that rear bag isnt made to be "squeezable" to adjust the height. Obviously I could be wrong lol.
So the method I used today was to line up the shot with the grip giving backpressure thru the stock to the shoulder etc...but with the elevation somewhat low and then with the off hand id push down on the stock and hold steady like that for the shot.
I guess it is what it is until I get the equipment learning curve sorted out.
So am i to understand that essentially one has to get bags of the correct height to more or less fit the shot and then the rear bag is squeezable for the micro adjustments?? (with very little or no downpressure on the rifle)?
so essentially the rifle is barely sitting on top of the bags with hardly any down pressure?
this has been part of my confusion since I am shooting these particular targets with 3 different levels of diamonds. At only 25 yds, the rear of the rifle has to move up and down a bit for the different levels of the diamonds.
ATM I only have these basic bags:
AFAIK that rear bag isnt made to be "squeezable" to adjust the height. Obviously I could be wrong lol.
So the method I used today was to line up the shot with the grip giving backpressure thru the stock to the shoulder etc...but with the elevation somewhat low and then with the off hand id push down on the stock and hold steady like that for the shot.
I guess it is what it is until I get the equipment learning curve sorted out.
So am i to understand that essentially one has to get bags of the correct height to more or less fit the shot and then the rear bag is squeezable for the micro adjustments?? (with very little or no downpressure on the rifle)?
i'd get a bipod right away so you can ditch the front bag and not have to hike up the rear bag.
dry fire a lot, focus on the process. proper trigger control doesn't require a light trigger, just a predictable one.
i'd almost suggest practicing with a crappy trigger for a while
i say this because i had an advantage when i started shooting rifles because i had almost 30 years behind a P226 with a 10lb DA pull.
dry fire a lot, focus on the process. proper trigger control doesn't require a light trigger, just a predictable one.
i'd almost suggest practicing with a crappy trigger for a while
i say this because i had an advantage when i started shooting rifles because i had almost 30 years behind a P226 with a 10lb DA pull.
i'd get a bipod right away so you can ditch the front bag and not have to hike up the rear bag.
dry fire a lot, focus on the process. proper trigger control doesn't require a light trigger, just a predictable one.
i'd almost suggest practicing with a crappy trigger for a while
i say this because i had an advantage when i started shooting rifles because i had almost 30 years behind a P226 with a 10lb DA pull.
I dont think the trigger would give me much trouble if I could sort of the bag/support issues. Does feel like im pulling forever though lol
I was going to try a few shots today standing with it shouldered. I didnt even bother lol. Looking thru the scope, the rifle was all over the place and that was WITHOUT pulling on the 8-9lbs trigger
yeah I deffo want a bipod but again it takes so much time to research this and that.
Is a basic Magpul Mlok worth starting out with to get my feet wet?
lol, bipods can be a thread on its own, but yes that magpul bipod will work just fine.
Ya... this ^^^ . You just need something to get you started. It will work fine for learning how to build a better position... espeically with a light AR
Heres a good video on body position and "building the bridge" .... The bipod and the body are the anchor points, the rifle and shoulder are the bridge. The rear bad is there to just help steady everything and make very minor changes. The goal is to lock this all in and the crosshairs are naturally pointing at the target. Minor corrections are made, breathing is normalized, and the trigger is slowly squeezed.
This is all much harder to do with the rifle you have. Its lightweight and has a rough trigger. The trigger you bought and that Magpul bipod should help alot in helping you build a better position...
amazing vid. Just happened to see that guy in a competition vid this morning. Serendipity.
Answered several questions I had. Gonna have to watch it over and over and let things sink in.
Side note: Went to a couple local gun shops hoping to find an Mlok bipod. I didnt have much hope lol. The local Dunhams had some off brand picatinny stuff but that would mean id have to add a rail onto my mlok and I dont want to get too clunky.
So I decided to go by my main gun shop though I knew they didnt have any bipods. I get in there and hang out for a while. Lo and behold i see a bipod. its a magpul. its mlok. lol
So I bought it and talked dude into installing it for me.
I went to the range. Im not even going to get into it....ive bellyached enough already. Deffo was worse so far than sandbags. Obviously I have to learn to use it
That vid will help me get started
yeah that vid helped a lot. Quite a bit more sub 2 MOA stuff today and a few sub 1.5
I worked out a pretty cool system for shooting 100 rds of ammo. The corner of each diamond gets 4 shots then the center gets 4 shots. thats a box of 20. 5 diamonds per target = 100 rds. A nice practice amount
Thats the system I used on target 2 below. Its actually pretty cool because I put up 2 targets when I got to the range but i didnt have to change them every time the range went cold like I have done before.
I worked out a pretty cool system for shooting 100 rds of ammo. The corner of each diamond gets 4 shots then the center gets 4 shots. thats a box of 20. 5 diamonds per target = 100 rds. A nice practice amount
Thats the system I used on target 2 below. Its actually pretty cool because I put up 2 targets when I got to the range but i didnt have to change them every time the range went cold like I have done before.
Attachments
the maddening part is when u put 3 on the same spot but then of course the 4th just HAS to be off. So much goes into it. I think if I ever get around to shooting prone it will help. The way I shot today was to lay my upperbody across the bench so it approximated about the top 25% of a prone setup lol. Then I had to spread my legs way out to get low enough etc etc. One of the challenges was holding the position for 4 shots. usually it be 3 and then u had to reset.
Maddening.
Maddening.
Attachments
the hard part at first can be recognizing when you did everything right, or knowing when you didn't.
slow down. follow through.
yeah I could feel when it felt really in the groove but as i said, the position wasnt that comfortable to hold
lower body position along these lines hehe
trust me, im super slow lol. Load 4 rounds. shoot em. load 4 more. shoot em etc. no rush
on the 1 range there is no R.O. and usually its empty or maybe 1 other person so I could go prone there if I can find the space. The shooting positions are covered and there is maybe 3 feet between the benches (concrete/cinder block etc). So that will be a case of just experimenting and finding a spot. It may still be awkward because its a downhill shot off of flat or maybe slightly uphill ground. So im pretty sure the rear of the rifle will still have to be jacked up some
Lord Willing i'll try some prone there this Tuesday
The other range has a rule "shoot only from designated benches"...so I doubt prone will work.
Im looking at joining a private club where I know a guy and they have more ranges etc and id assume there will be more prone possibilities there.
Its a process. 1 month ago I didnt have a rifle. 2 weeks ago I didnt have bags. 3 days ago I didnt have a bipod.
Going prone is the next step
finally shot 100 rds from prone position. Laying on 2 yoga pads lol. I guess I can say its all a learning curve
Groups of 4 at 25 yds. A few groups right at 1MOA. Several under 2MOA. LOTS of inconsistency, which I guess is to be expected when doing something for the first time. Still occasionally getting some decent sized muzzle jump to the left. Again I guess this is to be expected because I am trying slightly different methods on different shots
There was some "give up" due to frustration and fatigue on the last groups...the big center diamond.
Issues as I see it. (ignoring store bought ammo etc)
1) "Slop" in the AR makes it a bit hard to get a natural point of aim as I understand the term
2) The 2 hands can be in conflict. I think this is also related to #1. Any slight change in pressure by either hand will move the crosshair and then its just some matter of muscle tension holding the position etc.
3) inability to load the bipod. I had it on slick concrete yesterday so I was having to use the hands to pull the stock back into the shoulder etc. Best groups were achieved by using mainly the left hand to pull it back while the right hand barely did any work. Im pretty sure thats not how a pro would approach it but who knows
4) as mentioned before. The B5 stock doesnt seem to be made to shoot off of bags and the caldwell bags were probably not money well spent. cest la vie
I'll keep working
Groups of 4 at 25 yds. A few groups right at 1MOA. Several under 2MOA. LOTS of inconsistency, which I guess is to be expected when doing something for the first time. Still occasionally getting some decent sized muzzle jump to the left. Again I guess this is to be expected because I am trying slightly different methods on different shots
There was some "give up" due to frustration and fatigue on the last groups...the big center diamond.
Issues as I see it. (ignoring store bought ammo etc)
1) "Slop" in the AR makes it a bit hard to get a natural point of aim as I understand the term
2) The 2 hands can be in conflict. I think this is also related to #1. Any slight change in pressure by either hand will move the crosshair and then its just some matter of muscle tension holding the position etc.
3) inability to load the bipod. I had it on slick concrete yesterday so I was having to use the hands to pull the stock back into the shoulder etc. Best groups were achieved by using mainly the left hand to pull it back while the right hand barely did any work. Im pretty sure thats not how a pro would approach it but who knows
4) as mentioned before. The B5 stock doesnt seem to be made to shoot off of bags and the caldwell bags were probably not money well spent. cest la vie
I'll keep working
Couple of things.... stop trying to load the bipod. That’s a junk phrase that leads to bad habits.
When you said best groups were from pulling the rifle into your shoulder..... now you’re on the right track. The only way to give therifle a consistent body to interact with is to be relaxed with the rifle pulled into your shoulder. You said left hand but I’m not sure what handed you are. Ideal is firing hand pulling STRAIGHT into a relaxed shoulder. If you are attached to the ground, not propped up on your elbows, and the rifle is being pulled straight into a relaxed shoulder, that IS your natural point of aim. Use that and adjust your body until you are on target. Then use the bag make the reticle be still, not to aim. Don’t cheat and pull left or right to get on target. Pull straight into a relaxed shoulder. That’s the only thing you’re allowed to do. If you aren’t on target, move your feet and hips.
