Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

[pacificnw]

I have a press on the way with no dies, because I could not figure out what to get. I've researched and read, and I still have many questions on the dies. I'll be reloading .308 for a gasgun, and have a 5 stage LNL AP coming. Perhaps I should have gotten a turret or single stage press for the .308 and just use the AP for 223 and 45. Maybe you can advise me about this and the die questions below?

I understand about measuring headspace, trimming COAL, and ogive seating depths. I'll be limited to magazine length, so I will likely be seated well off the lands and jumping into the rifling anyways, but I would like to improve the ammo I'm using, and will evebtually get a bolt gun, so I want to start practicing the right techniques.

My questions are only in regard to the following...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Depriming</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">Do I want to de-prime on a single stage before tumbling in SS media? What die? Lee?</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bumping Shoulder</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">This is where I get lost. Do I bump the shoulder with a body die, or while FL/neck sizing? Bump the shoulder .002"? Ok. How?</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Neck Sizing</span> - <span style="font-style: italic"> I guess I should have both neck and FL sizing dies on-hand, but unsure what to get. I've heard a Lee Collet Die is recommended when neck sizing only, and tends to work brass less than using a die that narrows the neck and then pulls the expander through the narrowed opening. Should I be using the Lee Collet or the a Bushing Neck Die. FWIW...I've heard for gasguns, that I should just FL size everytime. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">FL Sizing</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">I need FL Dies, even if necksizing most of the time. I've read alot and still not sure what to get for FL sizing. RCBS, Redding, Hornady, Forster. Should I still use the Lee or other die for decapping purposes, or get a decapping/sizing die.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Seating</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">RCBS/Redding/Forster w/ Mic Adjustment from what I understand.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Crimping</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">I don't think I need to crimp rifle cases, even for a semi. I've read the post on speeding up your .308 loading and gently removing the belled neck, but there was some debate on this.</span>

Even with the searching and reading I've done, I still have questions. I have read alot of different takes on this, and perhaps its because I've read articles from today, going back 5 years. Maybe the articles are out of date. It seems like wsith all of the reloaders, there should be a general consensus on what works/doesnn't, but I don't find the information I'm referencing to be so cut/dry. Hopefully I can get some help, as I have a LNL AP on the way, with no dies. I can always use the LNL for 5.56 and .45 reloading, and hoping to move forward. Maybe I should invest in a single stage or turret press, with some recommended dies? If so, help in the above mentioned areas would be appreciated.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacificnw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a press on the way with no dies, because I could not figure out what to get. I've researched and read, and I still have many questions on the dies. I'll be reloading .308 for a gasgun, and have a 5 stage LNL AP coming. Perhaps I should have gotten a turret or single stage press for the .308 and just use the AP for 223 and 45. Maybe you can advise me about this and the die questions below?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Depriming</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">Do I want to de-prime on a single stage before tumbling in SS media? What die? Lee?</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Bumping Shoulder</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">This is where I get lost. Do I bump the shoulder with a body die, or while FL/neck sizing? Bump the shoulder .002"? Ok. How?</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Neck Sizing</span> - <span style="font-style: italic"> I guess I should have both neck and FL sizing dies on-hand, but unsure what to get. I've heard a Lee Collet Die is recommended when neck sizing only, and tends to work brass less than using a die that narrows the neck and then pulls the expander through the narrowed opening. Should I be using the Lee Collet or the a Bushing Neck Die. FWIW...I've heard for gasguns, that I should just FL size everytime. </span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">FL Sizing</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">I need FL Dies, even if necksizing most of the time. I've read alot and still not sure what to get for FL sizing. RCBS, Redding, Hornady, Forster. Should I still use the Lee or other die for decapping purposes, or get a decapping/sizing die.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Seating</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">RCBS/Redding/Forster w/ Mic Adjustment from what I understand.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Crimping</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">I don't think I need to crimp rifle cases, even for a semi. I've read the post on speeding up your .308 loading and gently removing the belled neck, but there was some debate on this.</span>

Even with the searching and reading I've done, I still have questions. I have read alot of different takes on this, and perhaps its because I've read articles from today, going back 5 years. Maybe the articles are out of date. It seems like wsith all of the reloaders, there should be a general consensus on what works/doesnn't, but I don't find the information I'm referencing to be so cut/dry. Hopefully I can get some help, as I have a LNL AP on the way, with no dies. I can always use the LNL for 5.56 and .45 reloading, and hoping to move forward. Maybe I should invest in a single stage or turret press, with some recommended dies? If so, help in the above mentioned areas would be appreciated.

</div></div>

I started reloading on a Dillon 550b and I've still got all of my fingers and toes. I didn't even have the Infrawebz back then and taught myself by reading my Speer and Nosler manuals, multiple times and the reloading section in HANDGUNS magazine.

It will take you a bit longer to learn the basics, because you'll be dealing with multiple steps at once, but unless you're a dolt with an I.Q. south of 80, just take your time and keep reading the books, manuals and the reloading tutorials here and on AR15.com.

For casual gas gun 308 ammo, get a FL sizing die with a standard seater, if you're just going to be loading plinking ammo. I've got all brands, but I'm gravitating to Redding Bushing dies right now. Any of the big names will be fine.

I deprime on my Dillon after I clean all of my brass in the tumbler. This is also when I resize my cases, as I don't use a universal decapper. I'll then get the lube off and decide if I need to trim my cases and go that route. If I don't want to load right then and there, I have cases ready to go onto the next step.

What people don't realize is, is that people use the progressive presses mostly in single stage mode, or at least semi-single stage mode, when doing rifle cartridges.

You've got to lube/deprime/size and then you generally will stop and either wipe, or tumble off that lube.

You want to bump your shoulders back .001"-.003"ish, depending on your particular chamber and ease of chambering, you might want. Some of us don't feel the need to bump shoulders back every cycle, so we'll just squeeze that neck back down, to be able to grip the bullet. Some of us even use bushings to control this amount of 'squeeze'.

There's plenty of info here on this site about bushing FL sizers vs. STD FL sizers vs. Bushing Neck sizers vs. STD Neck Sizers, so I'll not go into it here.

Next, if you don't need to trim, or do any other case prep work, you'll want to prime the cases, charge the cases via your powder measure, or by hand and then seat the bullets. You would then crimp in a 'separate' station.

Many books will tell you to crimp for gas guns and many people will tell you that accuracy doesn't suffer when crimping. I personally started out crimping for my gas guns (HK,FAL,AR,AK) but don't do it too much any longer. If your die puts enough tension on a bullet, crimping is moot for the most part. Unless you chamber the same round over and over, you shouldn't get much setback, if at all, but this can be measured by you to give you an idea where your dies stand vis-a-vis neck tension.

Learn the basics first, practice your technique and refine your style. As an example, some people like to deprime first, dirty cases and all and they'll use a separate single stage press set up for this task. They'll then tumble the brass clean, or lube the cases up and resize them on their progressive press in a following step. Do you really want dirty brass going through your expensive sizing dies?

I clean first before touching the cases, because I don't like poking out media from the flash holes after they've been deprimmed, but then thrown into the tumbler. It's not worth the effort when doing big batches.

You might feel depriming first, makes more sense for you.

Also, if you know you don't have to trim your brass and you're just doing large batches of plinking ammo, you might use Hornady One Shot lube, which is inert and doesn't react with the powder/primers in a round, so you don't have to wipe it off, or tumble it off.

In this situation, you can run the progressive for rifle rounds, like you would a progressive press loading pistol ammo and get large batches done in one fell swoop.

Chris

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacificnw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Depriming</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Bumping Shoulder</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Neck Sizing</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">FL Sizing</span>
</div></div>
Get all the sizing done first--then throw the cases in the tumbler overnight for the fresh clean look of polished brass.

I use a universal decapping die for depriming, measure the cases before pushing the shoulder back with RCBS case mic, and size the neck in two steps with two different bushings.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Seating</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Crimping</span>
</div></div>
If you select your bushing correctly you will not need to crimp. Basically, you want 0.003 in neck tension and the bullet will not set back or ram forward in the semi-auto action cycle.

 

[pacificnw]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

I was hoping to use this .308 gasgun (LMT MWS) for hunting, and perhaps a DM role. I know I'm no DM, but I was hoping for an accurate semiauto platform. With Black Hills .308 Match, the majority of rounds are 1 MOA with some flyers. I was thinking I might be able to eliminate some of the flyers, and that is really all I'm hoping for. I don't expect to get sub MOA, I was just hoping to eliminate the flyers.

I know there is alot of info on The Hide in regard to bushing vs standard neck/FL sizing, but its all led me full circle, back to not knowing which I should choose. I'm confortable with the workflow processes you mention, specifically, lubing, tumbling, trimming etc. and my questions are only in regard to the dies.


<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">De-Priming:</span></span>
I am going to de-prime before tumbling, as the SS media doesn't tend to get caught in the flashholes or primer pockets. I just need to understand whether I should de-prime on a single stage press, and what die to use.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Shoulder Bump:</span></span>
True. True. I've also read that I may want to go an extra .001" for improved cycling in semiautos. Still not sure what die I should use. Perhaps I should use a die that only bumps the shoulder when I need it like a body die, and then use either a neck/FL die that doesn't touch the shoulder.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Seating:</span></span>
It sounds like either Redding or Forster is the way to go on this. I've heard Forster uses the Redding bushings in its die and the only improvement on the Redding is the ability to read the mic measurements.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Crimping:</span></span>
Sounds like I will not need to be crimping the .308 with the Redding or Forster Seating Die.

Sorry guys. I've been trying to read, learn as much as I can, but there seems to be considerable debate on this issue, and I don't have enough experience to choose on path or the other. I appreciate all the time you spent in responding Chris and encourage any others that might be inclined to offer an opinion. I will gladly repay the favor down the road, once I gain more experience.

 

[pacificnw]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

I'm thinking workflow will be something like this...

Depriming
Bumping Shoulder
Neck Sizing
FL Sizing
Tumble
Trim
Seat Primer
Powder Charge
Powder Check
Seat

If you're talking about the RCBS case mic here
http://www.realguns.com/archives/035.htm
I didn't realize you could use it to bump the shoulder.

Edit: Nevermind, about the case mic. Upon re-reading I see you use it only to measure.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Decapping</span> <span style="font-style: italic">- I think I will go with the Lee Universal Decapping on a Single Station to Deprime</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Shoulder Bump</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">Need Recommendation</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Neck Sizing (Bushing/Standard)</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">Need Recommendation</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">FL Sizing (Bushing/Standard)</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">Need Recommendation</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Seating</span> - <span style="font-style: italic">Redding or Forster w/ Mic Adjustment</span>

Sorry for the questions. I promise to giive back to the community.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacificnw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was hoping to use this .308 gasgun (LMT MWS) for hunting, and perhaps a DM role. I know I'm no DM, but I was hoping for an accurate semiauto platform. With Black Hills .308 Match, the majority of rounds are 1 MOA with some flyers. I was thinking I might be able to eliminate some of the flyers, and that is really all I'm hoping for. I don't expect to get sub MOA, I was just hoping to eliminate the flyers.

I know there is alot of info on The Hide in regard to bushing vs standard neck/FL sizing, but its all led me full circle, back to not knowing which I should choose. I'm confortable with the workflow processes you mention, specifically, lubing, tumbling, trimming etc. and my questions are only in regard to the dies.


<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">De-Priming:</span></span>
I am going to de-prime before tumbling, as the SS media doesn't tend to get caught in the flashholes or primer pockets. I just need to understand whether I should de-prime on a single stage press, and what die to use.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Shoulder Bump:</span></span>
True. True. I've also read that I may want to go an extra .001" for improved cycling in semiautos. Still not sure what die I should use. Perhaps I should use a die that only bumps the shoulder when I need it like a body die, and then use either a neck/FL die that doesn't touch the shoulder.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Seating:</span></span>
It sounds like either Redding or Forster is the way to go on this. I've heard Forster uses the Redding bushings in its die and the only improvement on the Redding is the ability to read the mic measurements.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Crimping:</span></span>
Sounds like I will not need to be crimping the .308 with the Redding or Forster Seating Die.

Sorry guys. I've been trying to read, learn as much as I can, but there seems to be considerable debate on this issue, and I don't have enough experience to choose on path or the other. I appreciate all the time you spent in responding Chris and encourage any others that might be inclined to offer an opinion. I will gladly repay the favor down the road, once I gain more experience. </div></div>

I clean first, not so much because my fired brass is dirty, but because I do look for range pickups and I'll throw those into the tumbler. I don't want to dick with punching corn or walnut out of exposed flash holes, so this brings me to point two.

I don't feel the need to use a wet cleaning process, either ultrasonic or SS media. I use good old corn or walnut with a bit of polish thrown in.

Right now, SS is the 'flavor of the month' and while it and U.S. cleaning do a good to great job, the traditional method works fine, as well. I'm not one that has to, or needs to clean his primer pockets out after every cycle, preferring to go 3 before I'll brush them clean, or just run the primer pocket uniformer again, doing both steps at once.

If you're anal about it and you want your brass looking 'brand new' for every cycle, then by all means, go the wet route, but be prepared to do extra work, which will require time and don't expect to load them up right after the cleaning process is complete.

As you get more involved in this, you'll start to realize that you're spending a lot of time doing bullshit work, when you could be either shooting, or actually loading more ammo.

You bump your shoulders with your FL sizing die, or a body die. You need tools to measure the shoulder bump, or you can fine tune the bump to your particular chamber/bolt dimensions, through trial and error and sizing in small increments at a time.

Seating dies don't use bushings. They use 40 tpi bolts. I have a Forster 338LM micro seater, a Redding 7mmRM comp seater and two Hornady Micro Seating stems for their 'inline' seating dies and they all work fine.

If you waved a magic wand and asked me to pick all my seaters, I'd take the Reddings just because...lol!

For crimping, you should buy a separate crimping die and do it in a separate station/step, so as not to run the risk of collapsing your shoulders. Also, if you decide to crimp, you must make sure all of your brass is trimmed to the same length.

Redding and Wilson bushings are interchangeable, I don't know if RCBS, Hornady, or Forster bushings are the same in dimension.

You seem like you need to get the basics down first and not worry about getting into the more esoteric tasks and tweaks.

Chris

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

A FLS die decaps, then sizes the body (to include the shoulder) and the neck all in one fell swoop. Standard two-die sets include just a FLS die and a bullet seating die. And that's all you need, provided you want to reload that way.

I start by decapping with a separate decapping die because I want to clean the primer pockets along with the rest of the brass before I do anything else. This is purely my preference and there's no need for a separate decapping die, provided you're willing to decap during the sizing step. I have done decapping just with a depapping pin and a hammer, no die needed.

I started with a standard 2-die set but switched to neck sizing with a Lee collet neck sizing die because it is about 90% as effective against runout as neck turning but is only 1% as much labor. It also works the brass much less than the neck sizing done by a FLS die with an expander ball, which extends brass life.

I had to buy a Redding body die because I still sometimes need to bump the shoulder. The Redding body die works the shoulder and body just like a FLS die, it just leaves the neck alone. So long as you body size every reload, this also is suitable for an autoloader.

I seat the bullet with a Lee dead length seating die, which is included in the set with their collet neck sizing die.

 

[pacificnw]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

Fred -

I also want to decap first. Do I understand that you:

Decap/FL Size w. no expander - (What Die)
Neck Sizing - Lee Collet Die
Shoulder Bumping - Redding Body Die
Seating - Lee Dead Length Seating Die

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

As someone who just started this a year ago, I'll make a recommendation - Get yourself a 2 die set of FL sizing/seater dies. I have RCBS, but I'm sure any will work for you. And start reloading by the manuals you have.

I say this because starting out it keeps things simple. And I know some people making/shooting some very sub-moa ammo using the same tools and process. Once you do this for a while, you can decide if you want to change how you do it. So far, I haven't found the need to change. I'm not saying I won't find that need tomorrow, I just haven't yet.

You can adjust a FL sizing die to only bump the shoulders the amount you want. Basically, you just don't screw it down so far and keep adjusting down till you get the bump you want. Plenty of detailed instructions in this forum.

I do like to decap before sizing. For me, it means when I'm sizing all the force on the ram is for sizing only. I'm not feeling any feedback from primers that are either loose or tight in the pockets. Lots of people just decap with the sizing die, and that's fine too. But for me starting out, the Lee universal decapping die was a minor investment that allowed me to learn more about my reloading process.

I also know guys that shoot sub-moa loading in progressive mode on a dillon 650, doing all steps in one pass on the press. And this is for .308 ammo.

Honestly, don't think yourself into a hole. Start simple. As you get comfortable with it, make changes where it makes sense.

Good luck.

 

[pacificnw]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

Thanks for all of the responses. I've got some dies on the way. I also ordered a single stage to refine my technique before moving a portion of the workflow to the LNL AP.

I ordered:

Lee Universal Decapper
Redding Comp Bushing Neck Sizer w/ 330-334 bushings
Redding Body Die
Redding Comp Deating Die
Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die

What would you recommend for a FL sizing die? That's really the only thing I didn't get. I was thinking the Redding Comp S Bushing FL Resizing Die, since I can use it with the same bushings from the neck die. Does anyone recommend a non-bushing FL sizer instead?

 

[pacificnw]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

I'm ready to pull the trigger on this, so I just ordered both FL sizers in bushing and standard. Hopefully I can find an application for both, and its not money wasted. I appreciate the hide's support on my journey. True professionals. Thank you.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacificnw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all of the responses. I've got some dies on the way. I also ordered a single stage to refine my technique before moving a portion of the workflow to the LNL AP.

I ordered:

Lee Universal Decapper
Redding Comp Bushing Neck Sizer w/ 330-334 bushings
Redding Body Die
Redding Comp Deating Die
Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die

What would you recommend for a FL sizing die? That's really the only thing I didn't get. I was thinking the Redding Comp S Bushing FL Resizing Die, since I can use it with the same bushings from the neck die. Does anyone recommend a non-bushing FL sizer instead?

</div></div>

Call them back up and get rid of the .330" bushing, as you won't use it.

Depending on your brass and your chamber, I'd go .339" or .340" (step down), .336" Lapua, .334" some Winchester/Federal and the .332" or .331" for some of the thinner Winchester you might encounter.

Chris

 

[pacificnw]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

Your comments are appreciated, but not sure what you mean by "step down". It sounds like I should order up some more bushings(335-340)? Is this what you are saying...

Bushing Size : Brass
--------------------
330 : N/A Bushing not Needed
331 : Thinner Winchester
332 : Thinner Winchester
333 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
334 : Winchester & Federal
335 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
336 : Lapua
337 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
338 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
339 : <span style="font-style: italic">Step Down?</span>
340 : <span style="font-style: italic">Step Down?</span>

Is it going to make sense to use the same bushings between the neck sizing and FL sizing dies, or once I figure out what size I'm going to be using, I should just order bushings for each? I just got the standard, but they have the titanium nitride bushings. Maybe I'd be better served with those?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacificnw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your comments are appreciated, but not sure what you mean by "step down". It sounds like I should order up some more bushings(335-340)? Is this what you are saying...

Bushing Size : Brass
--------------------
330 : N/A Bushing not Needed
331 : Thinner Winchester
332 : Thinner Winchester
333 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
334 : Winchester & Federal
335 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
336 : Lapua
337 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
338 : <span style="font-style: italic">N/A Bushing Needed?</span>
339 : <span style="font-style: italic">Step Down?</span>
340 : <span style="font-style: italic">Step Down?</span>

Is it going to make sense to use the same bushings between the neck sizing and FL sizing dies, or once I figure out what size I'm going to be using, I should just order bushings for each? I just got the standard, but they have the titanium nitride bushings. Maybe I'd be better served with those? </div></div>

When you squeeze the neck down more than a 'certain' amount, you lose what we call 'spring back'. This is the ability of soft brass to actually move back out a small amount, usually .001". So if you select a .336" bushing, you will size that down to a point and the brass will spring back yielding an O.D. of .336".

Unfortunately, if you attempt to size back down more than say .005" at a time (Redding throws out .007"-.008"), you will not get that spring back, so your .336" target point might be only .335", which isn't the end of the world, but most of us here will step down if we have to go more than than .005" amount.

The way we get around this is by using a intermediate 'step down' bushing, to do the total sizing in two, or even three moves. Take a fired case from your rifle, measure at the case mouth and see what you get. My Savage rifle blows out my necks to .343"-.344", so I use a .339" or a .340" (<.005" step) and then I'll use my final bushing.

Get the TiNi coated bushings as you won't have to lube the necks.

Get their .30 cal Carbide Sizing button, if you're going to be doing brass shot out of gas guns, which might have dinged in mouths, or stuff you find at the range. You don't have to lube the inside of the necks with carbide.

FL Bushing dies and Neck Bushing dies use the same bushings. Get the coated ones, as I said. It'll save you time for only a few more dollars.

Chris

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pacificnw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fred -

I also want to decap first. Do I understand that you:

Decap/FL Size w. no expander - (What Die)
Neck Sizing - Lee Collet Die
Shoulder Bumping - Redding Body Die
Seating - Lee Dead Length Seating Die
</div></div>
I don't use the FLS die any more.

The decapping die only decaps, no sizing. You can adjust the decapping rod in a FLS die to do the same thing but you have to take a little care in how high you raise the ram. But you can't decap .308 with a .243 FLS die so I bought a decapping die so I can do one-size-fits-all decapping with the other calibers I load.

Next I bump the shoulder (when needed) with a Redding body die. Then I neck size with the Lee Collet die.

 

[pacificnw]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

I appreciate all of the feedback. I'll get those .30 cal carbide sizing buttons and once I figure out what bushings I'll be using most of the time, I'll pony up for some coated ones that I can use w/out lube. Just to recap. This is what I ended up ordering and my proposed workflow. I know I bought more dies than I needed and perhaps made other mis-steps. I can take the criticism, and it might help others just starting out.

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">DIES:</span></span>
LEE UNIVERSAL DECAPPING DIE
LEE NECK COLLET DIE
REDDING FLS DIE *W/ CARBIDE SIZE BUTTON
REDDING TYPE S BUSHING FLS DIE *W/ CARBIDE SIZE BUTTON
REDDING COMP BUSHING NECK DIE *W/ COMP CARBIDE SIZE BUTTON
REDDING COMP SEATING DIE
REDDING BODY DIE
REDDING BUSHINGS 330-340

* NEED TO BUY

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">PROPOSED WORKFLOW:</span></span>
LNL AP STATION #1: DECAP - LEE UNIVERSAL DECAPPING DIE
LNL AP STATION #2: SIZING (WITH VIRGIN BRASS) - REDDING TYPE S BUSHING FLS DIE W/ CARBIDE SIZE BUTTON
LNL AP STATION #2: SIZING (WITH FIREFORMED BRASS) - REDDING COMP BUSHING NECK DIE W/ CARBIDE SIZE BUTTON
CRIMP REMOVAL, PRIMER POCKET UNIFORM, FLASH REAM

STAINLESS MEDIA TUMBLE & DRY
GIRAUD TRIM
DUMP BRASS IN LNL AP

LNL AP STATION #1: LEE NECK COLLET DIE
LNL AP STATION #2: POWDER CHARGE
LNL AP STATION #3: POWDER COP
LNL AP STATION #4: REDDING COMP SEATING DIE
LNL AP STATION #5: N/A

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">OBSERVATIONS:</span></span>
Feel free to add some of your own.

#1) I bought many dies I'm not using.
#2) Not sure if its ok to size and tumble, then come back to trim
#3) Didn't end up using the RCBS RC Supreme Single Stage I bought
#4) Seems like a shame to 3-way trim and then stack those shells atop one another in the feed tube.
#5) Maybe I should drop my own measured charge, rather than leave it to a powder throw

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

Are you aware that ALL sizing dies, be they Full Length, or Neck Only, deprime the spent primer?

Why would you want to decap a fired case, in a separate step, apart from decapping during the resizing proceess?

For the guy who stated that he likes to clean the primer pockets out first, there's nothing to say that you can't clean your pockets out after the resizing step, or even after you trim them.

Decapping on station one, without resizing, is only adding another step to the process and wasting time, movement and energy. That's why they built in a decapping stem, for all sizing dies, necks or FL, to cut down on work.

As for your other stuff, I've already said too much.

It's tough teaching somebody something that I've taken years to learn, in only a few posts on an internet bulletin board, sorry to say.

Good luck!

Chris

 

[Guest]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would you want to decap a fired case, in a separate step, apart from decapping during the resizing proceess?</div></div>

I decap everything separate with a lee tool,
(1) To keep the crap out of the press.
(2) Everything gets tumbled before resizing, and I want the pockets cleaned as well. Plus, all the necks get brushed clean before tumbling to remove any carbon that will cause run out.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would you want to decap a fired case, in a separate step, apart from decapping during the resizing proceess?</div></div>

I decap everything separate with a lee tool,
(1) To keep the crap out of the press.
(2) Everything gets tumbled before resizing, and I want the pockets cleaned as well. Plus, all the necks get brushed clean before tumbling to remove any carbon that will cause run out. </div></div>

I get a little debris in the press after depriming/sizing...say, 500 cases and I just blow it out with a couple of breaths. Unless you're using SS media, in a wet solution, you're not going to tumble the pockets clean, but that's your prerogative, I guess.

I brush my necks clean as well, I just do it after the cleaning/sizing process, like if I need to clean the pockets out, which I do every three cycles.

Decapping in a separate step, apart from resizing, is just another tedious step one has to do, I guess is my point to the other fellow.

It's really not needed and trust me, I'm trying to justify any reason to buy a 'universal decapping' die and single stage press, lol, but I can't.

Take care, Chris

 

[sniperaviator]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

I hope you have a LARGE reloading bench!
That is a LOT of complicated stuff to start with.

My suggestion. Fireform your brass by shooting factory ammo in your gun. Then just neck size and decap, primer pocket clean prime, powder, bullet seat. Learn how to do that with the simplist dies you have that do those jobs. Now go out and shoot. Repeat. You don't need to clean cases or trim cases at first. Stick with loads well under maximums. Stick with the listed OAL. OH, and get an inertia bullet puller so you can SAFELY take apart your mistakes. They happen, especially at first.

After you do the basic reloading, you are ready to tackle precision reloading and do all that other stuff.

 

[XTR]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

I'm noticing that my bench needs to be bigger, and that's w/o the Dillon that my father in law wants to send me for Christmas. I need a bigger workshop.

 

[MinorDamage]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm noticing that my bench needs to be bigger, and that's w/o the Dillon that my father in law wants to send me for Christmas. I need a bigger workshop. </div></div>

Tell your Father in law that my bench is big enough. Just have him ship it to my address.

Josh

 

[fastgixxerlv]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

Holy crap! There's so much more to reloading that I thought.

 

[colt933]

Re: Reloading .308 - Confused on Dies

Gas guns take a different/better technique than heavy bolt guns.

I bet your fliers are a result of inconsistent bipod pre-load or inconsistent shoulder pressure on the rifle.

I have bolt guns that will shoot to the same POI regardless of shoulder pressure/bipod pre-load. But my 18" Noveske N6 is a different animal altogether. I thought it was junk until I worked on improving my technique. Now I can shoot it sub-MOA - and the only difference is my technique.

I would start with a 2-die set for your auto loader and not complicate things so much at first. You will probably find that a 2-die set will load ammo as accurately as you can shoot it through your gas gun. I do like the Lee factory crimp die for auto loaders, so that could be a good addition to a 2-die set.

The complicated process using multiple sizing dies is mainly for bench rest or extreme long range in bolt guns. The improvements to be gained from these complex sizing procedures are quantifiable, but are small and incremental. You should be able to create ammo that is more accurate than factory loads with just a simple 2-die setup.