Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

G

gunsandcigars88

Private
Minuteman
Sep 28, 2009
21
0
35
TX
#1
Ok fellas, first off we will go over my gear. I am shotting a Remington 700 SPS Tactical. It has the stock 20" barrel on it, and I have outfitted it with a SS 16X scope on it. I know this is not top of the line equipment, but it is what was within my budget. I am looking to get as close to shooting 1,000 yards as possible. Since the rifle has a 1 in 9" twist barrel on it I am figuring that my max bullet weight is 75 grains (if I am wrong please correct me). From what I have read I am guessing I will need the Sierra Matchking or Hornady A-Max. As well I am planning on loading with Lapua brass.

I am confused on something though. I have not located any 22 claiber bullets from Hornady or Sierra that are .223 in the weights that I need. I did find them in .224 however. Is .224 what I am actually supposed to get? If not can you please provide me a link to the right bullet? As well I am open to any suggestions on other bullets, and brass. Also looking for suggestions on powder and Primers.
Thanks in advance for the help.
B
 
#3
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

I believe .223 bullets are only used for the .22 Hornet and that was an older one. These .223 bullets come in light weights.

Joe-n-TX is very right in urging you to get and read some reloading manuals because that information is VERY basic and it sounds like you should be reading a lot about reloading before starting.

But in direct answer to your questions, the .223 Remington (and just about any other .22 caliber centerfire) uses a bullet with a diameter of .224 inch.

The Hornady 75 gr A-Max may be too long to stabilize in your barrel, you will have to try it and see. if that doesn't work you may want to look at the 75gr Berger VLD, which should stabilize in you 1:9 barrel. Those are the only two bullets that even have a chance of arriving at the 1000 yard line supersonically, and with a 20 inch barrel, it will require a very hot load.

I use 80gr JLK VLD bullet in my 26 inch 1:7.7 twist and the load is quite warm.
 
#4
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

gunsandcigars:

1.) get this book;
HANDLOADING FOR COMPETITION, MAKING THE TARGET SMALLER,
by Glenn Zediker.

2.) try and hook up with a mentor who has some good experience shooting and loading.

3.) continue asking questions. You will go much faster achieving your goals.
 
#5
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

I couldn't get the berger 75 vld to shoot well out of my 700 5r. The hornady 75 bthp at a little over2900fps made it to 1000, but it wouldn't be my first choice because I can't read wind to save my life.

Read lots and start safe. Good luck.
 
#6
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

VLDs can be finicky to load well. For one thing, they like to be loaded into the lands.

There is a good reason you did not do well with the 75grBTHP, you would need to do more than read the wind, you would require a complete weather station plus radar guidance and tea leaves; that load is transonic at 1000 yards.
 
#8
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Well, I have been reloading pistol for several years. though I know that is a whole new story from rifle. Especially long range match grade rifle ammo. I have a mentor, but he loads rifle for hunting, and is not trying to shoot 1,000. I know that I should have a reloading book, just have never bought one. One of these days I am going to get one. I have a buddy (who is on here I just don't know hiw handle). That of course shoots long range, but he shoots a .308. I do not know anyone else that does this with a .223 around here.

What primer and powder should I go with?
B
 
#9
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Focus on 0 to 600 to start with it will be a big enough challenge in the wind.

Grab a sierra reloading manual, and i would get the book that Casey recommended also its good reading.

Primers, CCI, Winchester, Federal its really what ever is avalible in your area.

I don't think you'll have enough twist in your barrell to stabilize the 77gr Matchking.

I'd start with Varget powder.



 
#11
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Just for the record, the actual name of Zediker's book is "Handloading for competition, making the target BIGGER," but I appreciate Casey's humor.

I have sent many 75gr A-Maxes downrange at the 1000 yard LR-1 targets and later the LRFC. At the time I was using a 24 inch 1:8 barrel and my MV was above 2900FPS. My scores were nothing to write home about, especially with the FC. When the wind started, things could get out of hand quickly. One day when it got really cold in South Texas, the pits reported that my bullets were not supersonic and some of them were keyholing on target. By cold, I mean around 50 degrees.

The bullets were going transonic and some were even subsonic at the target and tumbling. That was the last time I shot these bullets.

Yes, they will make 1K, but they are unpredictable and at sea level, you need to have them going at 3000FPS or more for them to work decently at that range. At 600 yards, they are great but I gave up on them for any range as I standardized on 80gr JLKs for all match ranges and the scores increased accordingly, especially the LR scores.

The 77gr SMK is NOT a 1000 yard bullet; it is an excellent mag-length bullet, just not a 1K bullet.
 
#12
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

They actually held elevation at 1k really well. Not sure if that means that they were transonic or not, but they went where I sent them! (either left or right depending on how much the wind changed)

It was a great learning experience and I'm not trying to fool anyone or myself, I'm a beginner.
 
#13
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Elevation is not going to be much of an issue. Once you are dialed in and if you are a competent handloader or have premium factory ammo and you know how to hold, you should be able to hold elevation even if the bullet goes subsonic, provided it didn't get destabilized by the transonic event. Let's not forget the bullets are coming down fairly rapidly at that range.

The issue is the wind from 600 yards on, as the bullet slows down rapidly, it is spending more time in the wind and it is easily moved by the slightest breeze; these bullets are very light. As an example, just think of it as shooting a 22LR at 300 yards and you will get the idea.

In F-class, the targets hare very small, the X-ring is a 5 inch circle and the 10-ring is 10 inches. I have had numerous "what the heck was that" moments when I had a great hold, proper sight picture and the shot went in a totally unexpected location. With a facing or a rear wind, the bullet will do strange things also.

I was able to somewhat remedy the situation by using 80gr JLK VLD bullets, and pushing them hard, but there were still too many unexpected variations. I was able to reach NRA F-class LR SharpShooter with my AR and .223, but that was as far as I could get. So I switched to a long barreled .308 and I have bettered my scores every time I shot. My score last month was in Expert territory with one match in Master territory.

All this to say that at LR caliber and velocity matter. If you are going to shoot 1000 yards with a .223, you need a long fast twisted barrel (1:8) so that you can shoot the long 80gr JLK, SMK, Berger or A-Max bullet as fast as possible and hope for the best. Anything less than this and you are just shipping lead down range in a fairly expensive manner; it would be better if you just drove it there.
 
#14
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Thank you for the advice and humor!

I wish that the 700 5r came with a faster twist, but it shoots these ones pretty sweet. I messed with jamming and jumping the vlds... I have a 308, but I loaned it to my father in law so he could shoot with me. I really look forward to finding a good load for it too.
 
#16
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Nothing chambered in .223 Remington makes it to 1000 yards "easy."

I personally would look elsewhere. 1 in 9 is no good for heavy bullets.
 
#18
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

I can tell you for sure that a 1 in 9 will NOT stabilize a 80 grain V-max
laugh.gif
 
#19
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will clarify for the "internet police/guru's" it will make it with no danger of going trans-sonic until well past the paper! Assuming your not shooting on the surface of the sun or at mcmurdo station in the antartic. </div></div>

The 77gr SMK needs to come out of the barrel at 3200FPS in order to reach 1000 yards (barely) supersonic at sea level at 70 degrees Farenheit. Going up 1000 feet in elevation will not help you much, it requires 3100FPS.

I think that 3100-3200FPS is a little difficult to reach in a .223 Remington.

I should add that barely supersonic is not the goal for 1000 yard accuracy, you want to be a few hundred FPS above Mach 1.
 
#20
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards







i think the 77 is to heavy to stabilize to 1k in a 1-9 20 ". your best bet may be the berger 70 gr . i would also recomend h 4895 powder , it seems to give very good accurace and velocity when your trying to max out the 223 .
my 1st lr rifle was a 223 with 18.5 in barrel but the barrel was 1-8 twist it shot the 75 a max very well , 1000 yds. was possible but very tough . my advice keep doing research . keep shooting . i learn something new everytime i shoot lr.
adam







<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 77 smk with re-15 will make it to 1000yds easy out of a 1-9 twist </div></div>
 
#21
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Well i am not as smart as a computer program giving you these numbers, however i have layed on the 1000yd line and shot with a 22" rock barrel with 77mk and 26 grains of r-15 and not keyholed a single one on 80 degree days as well as pulled targets for my buddy using my rifle and ammo, but i am sure those quick load programs are smarter then me
what do i know
 
#22
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well i am not as smart as a computer program giving you these numbers, however i have layed on the 1000yd line and shot with a 22" rock barrel with 77mk and 26 grains of r-15 and not keyholed a single one on 80 degree days as well as pulled targets for my buddy using my rifle and ammo, but i am sure those quick load programs are smarter then me
what do i know </div></div>

Just because they did not keyhole does not mean they were supersonic. They vast majority of bullets will not destabilize when they go transonic and continue on the target at subsonic speed point on. In a 22 inch barrel with 26gr or R-15, the MV was probably around 2750FPS, let's make it 2800FPS because it's you and for an 80 degree day, the bullet was going transonic at about 850 yards. Give or take.
 
#24
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7.62willdo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sweet i will just sell my chrono and ask you when i try a new charge weight, i assure you i am getting faster then that, but again if your computer program says that, it must know more then me and my chrono and REAL LIFE EXP. </div></div>

I think I reviewed all your posts on this thread and I did not see where you mentioned a muzzle velocity for your load out of your rifle. In fact I believe this is the first time you even mentioned a "chrono".

So, you are getting faster than 3100 FPS?
 
#26
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

It seems some people seem to think that if a bullet goes subsonic it will immediately destabilize and fall to the ground. That's just not the case. In fact most bullets will simply continue on course, point on, and will hit the target without any issue.

Some people also seem to be insulted by the very idea that their load is not supersonic at the target, they need to get over it. It does make the job in the pits more difficult because there is no supersonic crack to detect, but the bullet will still go through the paper or hit the steel or whatever.

On the other hand one should also be aware that some bullets do not enjoy the transonic passage, and one notable example of that is the 168gr SMK , which is much more liable to be upset in that area. There are other bullets that will have that issue, but the 77gr SMK is not one of them and neither is the 75gr A-Max, in my experience.

The issue is that if your bullet is subsonic, it has taken quite a bit of time to get to the target and in windy conditions these bullets will be blown around for a longer period which makes them more difficult to control among other things.
 
#27
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

Experienced the 168smk going transonic at 1k myself. Very frustrating, one day with low pressure everything is fine, pressure rises, bullets fall out of the sky.I think you are correct SIG685. Some bullets go transonic and continue the same path without tumbling. There is an article on longrangehunting.com titled shooting the .223 1 mile that discusses this.
 
#28
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VLDs can be finicky to load well. For one thing, they like to be loaded into the lands.

There is a good reason you did not do well with the 75grBTHP, you would need to do more than read the wind, you would require a complete weather station plus radar guidance and tea leaves; that load is transonic at 1000 yards. </div></div>

Berger recently published information that says to jump VLDs, starting at .040" off the lands and working BACK from there, in order to achieve accuracy with them. A total reversal on their (and others) previously held position on the subject.

Regarding your 9 twist barrel there are three commonly available bullets that right on the box say they work with 9 twist barrels (yellow box is 75 VLD). If money and less fiddling are considerations, I'd run the AMAX at about 20 thou off the lands and push them pretty hard with Varget, N140, RL15, or H4895. As said above, the 75 BTHP (same ballistics 77 SMK) our .mil rates out to a maximum of 700 meters/770 yards so they won't make the trip very well to 1k.

Good luck and have fun with your rig to 1k! My fast twist 223 bolt gun is being built now.
 
#29
Re: Reloading for .223 for 1,000 yards

I have not read that one. The one that I read from Berger is found on their front page at www.bergerbullet.com and it talks about a band of .030-.040 wide as a sweet spot and to find out which one works well for your target rifle, you should

"Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds"

And:

"Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds"

 
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