Advice needed......tired of grossly inaccurate $30-90 electronic scales!....Constantly moving zero... Gempro 250 was suggested to me, but is not available now....I can't spend $1500 on a deluxe laboratory scale... Any suggestions on a reasonably accurate scale in the $200-500 range? Thanks!
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Reloading Scales: What is an accurate, electronic scale?
- Thread starter jmcampbell1066
- Start date
A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48
ceproducts.shop
Enter code "Cambridge" at checkout.
If youre only going to spend up to 500 then get a charge master and save the rest. If you can drop 900 then the a7d fx120i with autothrow kit wold be awesome. Until you get tot that point I dont see much that tops a chargemaster
A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48ceproducts.shop
Enter code "Cambridge" at checkout.
Pretty much this.
Opinions will vary, but I started with just the balance and the Area419 powder cup. I was VERY happy with the results (SD & ES) and although not the fastest way to weight charges it wasn't too bad. Fast forward four months and I've added the Autotrickler with Area419 base and could not be happier with the gain in speed. I use both ball and extruded powders so the Autothrow upgrade is just not worth it for me as the Lee powder throw drum will leak ball powder.
The OP may prioritize charge weight accuracy over speed of dispensing, thus a chargemaster is not necessarily the best option for the money. YMMV
Just as another .02 deposit into this thread, I currently use a Chargemaster for my initial throw than do the final weight measurement with a Sartorius Entris64. Trickle up with an Omega trickler or pick out kernels with a pair of tweezers. It's not the fastest method for sure, but it's accurate to the kernel. If I had it to do all over again, I would just buy the A&D FX120i and full Area419 kit. Fast and accurate. Maybe not quite as accurate as the Sartorius, but I'm not sure that extra degree of accuracy actually matters. You can do great with just a Chargemaster. I had SD's <10 with a CM. I could hit targets just fine out to 1000 on a consistent basis. When you start to get really anal then the CM is questionable. Since I started checking charge weights with my Sartorius, I can see the "inaccuracy" of the Chargemaster. Now my SD is at 4.8. It's much more consistent load to load. Does it matter? Depends on your expectations. My order of progression would be:
Cheap beam or electronic scale
Chargemaster
A&D scale (hand throws and hand trickle)
A&D with AutoTrickler
A&D with full Area 419 Setup
Sartorius (hand throw)
Sartorius (Autotrickler)
Prometheus
Some of these steps give more speed, some more accuracy. Lots of people shoot just fine using only a Chargemaster. Honestly, it gets expensive in a hurry going past that point. Shooting for groups at 1000 on paper vs hitting a piece of steel in PRS are 2 different things. Not to downplay the importance of accuracy/consistency in PRS, but it's a little more forgiving, so you can perform at a higher level with a slightly lower level of both. I personally thing the A&D scale with the Autotrickler setup is a fantastic investment. It's fast and accurate. It's an investment you will not regret. If you can't afford the full setup, just get the scale. It will take you a bit more time, but the accuracy is the same.
Cheap beam or electronic scale
Chargemaster
A&D scale (hand throws and hand trickle)
A&D with AutoTrickler
A&D with full Area 419 Setup
Sartorius (hand throw)
Sartorius (Autotrickler)
Prometheus
Some of these steps give more speed, some more accuracy. Lots of people shoot just fine using only a Chargemaster. Honestly, it gets expensive in a hurry going past that point. Shooting for groups at 1000 on paper vs hitting a piece of steel in PRS are 2 different things. Not to downplay the importance of accuracy/consistency in PRS, but it's a little more forgiving, so you can perform at a higher level with a slightly lower level of both. I personally thing the A&D scale with the Autotrickler setup is a fantastic investment. It's fast and accurate. It's an investment you will not regret. If you can't afford the full setup, just get the scale. It will take you a bit more time, but the accuracy is the same.
I have all of the above options except the Prometheus, which in my opinion is now obsolete. You could literally run two (maybe even three) sartotius setups with full auto tricklers for less money than a Prometheus.
My advice is to start with the A&D scale, because it is fast, accurate, and you can always add auto trickler components later if you want to increase speed. If you start with a charge master, you could very easily decide that you want more accuracy, and then you have to buy the A&D and take a loss on the chargemaster.
I do prefer my Sartorius Entris 64 setup with the full autotrickler over the A&D setup. It is a more accurate scale and it performs great. The taller enclosure makes it easier to place and withdraw the scoop. But I do not see any difference down range and in fact I use both scales interchangeably. So I have to say I do not think the Entris is worth the extra cost. If I didn’t already have the Entris I would’ve just opted for another A&D. I believe Adam (maker of the auto trickler) agrees with me.
I have stated elsewhere on this forum that I am a big fan of the autotrickler. I actually designed my own autotrickiling system and was preparing to market it for sale, but Adam’s was just so much better than my invention that I abandoned the project. He provides great support and seems to be a genuinely nice guy in all my interactions with him.
So I think you can’t go wrong with the A&D, with a plan to upgrade to an auto trickler if you want to really cook with gas.
My advice is to start with the A&D scale, because it is fast, accurate, and you can always add auto trickler components later if you want to increase speed. If you start with a charge master, you could very easily decide that you want more accuracy, and then you have to buy the A&D and take a loss on the chargemaster.
I do prefer my Sartorius Entris 64 setup with the full autotrickler over the A&D setup. It is a more accurate scale and it performs great. The taller enclosure makes it easier to place and withdraw the scoop. But I do not see any difference down range and in fact I use both scales interchangeably. So I have to say I do not think the Entris is worth the extra cost. If I didn’t already have the Entris I would’ve just opted for another A&D. I believe Adam (maker of the auto trickler) agrees with me.
I have stated elsewhere on this forum that I am a big fan of the autotrickler. I actually designed my own autotrickiling system and was preparing to market it for sale, but Adam’s was just so much better than my invention that I abandoned the project. He provides great support and seems to be a genuinely nice guy in all my interactions with him.
So I think you can’t go wrong with the A&D, with a plan to upgrade to an auto trickler if you want to really cook with gas.
A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48ceproducts.shop
Enter code "Cambridge" at checkout.
Tried it and they wont ship to me in Kommiefornia? What stupid law did this dumb state come up with now that prevents me from buying a scale?
When evaluating scales, there is a divide that you should be aware of - two basic types.
- load cell or "strain gauge" <-- this is probably what you have now
- magnetic force restoration (MFR)
i bet if it was geared toward weighing our herbs you could buy it . . .
Unfortunately, if you buy the balance through AREA 419 it actually ships from Cambridge. It's in the very fine print towards the bottom of the page.
I'd call Cambridge and speak with Trevor to see if he can explain the issue shipping to Kommiefornia. I don't see anything listed on their website as to why.
Anyone try one of these the Frankford Arsenal Intellidropper? http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...-intellidropper-powder-scaledispenser-review/
great video on the difference between Strain vs Force Restoration scales. GemPros are great but they are still Strain gauge scales. Getting it to pick up a single kernel you have to pick up the pan, let the scale zero and set it back down. Some other factors often overlooked are room conditions, plastic trays/hoppers, static, phone/electronic interference, etc. Good scale in controlled conditions/environment will yield good results.
Depends on your expectations. Tighter sd means less vertical dispersion. If you are hitting 30% at a mile, tighter sd (Sartorius vs charge master) might get you to 50%. Does that matter? Depends on what makes you happy. You can be successful at 1000 or a mile with a charge master. A more accurate scale just increases your hit probability with a more consistent velocity. Shooting benchrest at 1000, it matters. Shooting steel for the fun of it, it probably isnt as important. It does not increase shooter skill or ability to read wind (environments) at long range. To me, that’s a much larger variable than velocity consistency.
I think the A&D FX 120 is a great scale and puts you in a range where powder charge accuracy really isn’t an question. A Sartorius is not necessary. If I had it to do again I would buy the fx120 with area419 kit rather than the Sartorius for the same $$. But I can weigh to less than a kernel of powder and know that if I have variation with my load it is not from powder charge weight, which means one less factor to worry about.
HI..Thaks for the info...Think I will start w the AD scale and trickle.....Thank you!
HI...I priced it...it was $750......w discount is it still $500 total? ThanksA&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48ceproducts.shop
Enter code "Cambridge" at checkout.
I believe it was $475 using the discount code "Cambridge" at checkout.
There are guys that have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on measuring equipment that is going to tell you that it matters. If you are getting single digit ES and SD numbers with a CM it's going to be hard to beat by any machine. Those scales that can measure within a hundred of a grain is a bit of overkill. A single kernal of H4350 weighs in more then a single hundreth of a grain. Plus you also have a lot of other factors in the ES and SD that almost no one talks about partially because they can't measure for it. Chamber temp, bearing length of the bullet, barrel bore condition, ammo age, neck tension, ect play more of a factor then a kernal of powder. Personally I run a CM and CM Lite, and with 2 machines using the same exact load, all my bolt gun ammo will shoot under 10 ES and 5 SD with ease. There was a video someone did a couple of months back if X powder machine would matter to that of the cheaper 2-300 dollar powder dispensers and to me it didn't matter.
A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48ceproducts.shop
Enter code "Cambridge" at checkout.
Ope, look at that. Looks like I'm ordering one for myself for that price.
I have a chatgemaster and a&d with auto trickler,I like em both but for my 6bra and 223s I always use chargemaster it’s very fast and throws R15 plenty fast with these two small volume cartridges.
Sartorius entris 64 is a more accurate scale compared to the 120i but the extra accuracy probably does not matter. I use them both interchangeably. I cross check my charges all the time and I never have to make any adjustments to a powder throw (like pulling a kernel out) after checking with the other scale. So I am able to use them both interchangeably, which means I always have a charge ready to go.
I do prefer the taller housing of the Entris, but for the money you can’t beat the A&D.
I do prefer the taller housing of the Entris, but for the money you can’t beat the A&D.
Thinking about getting a A&D but I have a question for those who may know. I read the manual & it says to serve it up somewhere that electric motors etc are not "near". Anyone able to define "near"?
What do you mean by more accurate? The A&D reads to .02 grains. Does the Sartorius go to .01 grain? Does that .01 grain make a difference and is it even adjustable with most powders weighing .02 grains per kernel?
Thanks!
Depends on the motor or battery. These are MFR scales, so anything that generates a magnetic field can throw the scale off. Hence why you don't set your cell phone next to your scale when loading. Hell, I don't even wear a battery powered watch when I drop charges (wouldn't matter, but I avoid on the off chance of anything interfering with the scale).
If i position the scale in front of my computer monitor and about 1 foot from the computer speakers is that except able or not a good idea to share my computer table?
I have no idea (speakers vary in size and power). Were it I, I'd have the scale located as far as possible from speakers. As to the monitor, LCD or CRT? (I know, these days everything is largely LCD). Doesn't matter I suppose; I'd still have the scale far away from any magnetic motor or power supply.
WOW! Killer deal! Wish I would have known about that 3 days ago!A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48ceproducts.shop
Enter code "Cambridge" at checkout.
I got mine here, for $597, with no code needed. I could have not paid shipping, either, but I opted for 2 day air:
https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/and-fx-120i.html
.02 grains of sensitivity is WAY more than any extruded powder reloader will EVER need. One way to make the A&D more accurate/precise is to throw charges in grams, as it goes out to .001g in resolution.
I just picked up the A&D and was prepaired to hand-throw/hand-trickle charges, until I saw this:
https://www.autotrickler.com/auto-trickler.html
Had to have it. Makes my Chargemaster all but useless...
Anyone know if there is an adapter made for other powder measures (like a Harrells or RCBS)? I'm just noodling over a ball powder I use in one cartridge that I'd like to run through the 120...
Is the deal on the A&d120i listed above something I need to jump on even though I have used my CM for years?
Don’t suppose there’s a way to let the CM throw and trickle charges and let the A&D do the weighing is there?
Don’t suppose there’s a way to let the CM throw and trickle charges and let the A&D do the weighing is there?
Some people have the CM do the bulk and then finish it off on the a&d, often those are people invested into multiple chargemasters already from what Ive gathered. But thats without using the autothrow system which is really what makes the a&d so popular. I think youd be faster using a separate powder drop and finish trickling on the a&d by hand than letting the single CM do it and then you finish trickling up a second time.
I don't believe there is a direct adapter, but you can just throw a charge directly from another powder measure into the cup, set it on the pan, and it will trickle up to your set weight.
It's a little ambiguous in Adam's video where he mentions that the balance needs to "rezero" before it starts trickling. Actually the balance only needs to get a stable reading before it will start trickling. That reading can be anything from 0.00gr to just shy of your desired charge weight.
I don't have the autothrow and just use a Lee measure for extruded and scoops for ball powder.
Sartorius 64-1s If you really want to know what you load is this is what you want. The FX-120i is ok but its not the scale the 64-1s is. I use mine with a power tickler for every thing from 30 carbine to 33xc.
It's also 2.5 times more expensive than the fx-120i. That's an expensive 1-2 more kernals of accuracy.
It all comes down to do you really need to be that accurate?? For me the answer is yes. I shoot 1000 yard matches and ELR so I want to know what my load is. I guess for most people the 120i is good enough but when you are shooting Cutting edge or Warner Flatline solids i need to know that all my loads are with in 1 kernel of my target weight.
That's fair, ELR is definitely a different animal versus shooting 1-3moa steel inside 1200 yards. I'd probably be weighing brass, turning necks and doing a whole bunch of other stuff I don't do now if I did anything more challenging.
To circle back to the OP you'll have to figure out what degree of accuracy and repeatability you have to have, then what degree you'd like to have. Hopefully your budget allows for the latter.
A rcbs 10-10 gave me SD's below 20 and was slow as hell, a chargemaster gave me SD's without fail below 10 but it over throws enough to piss me off and it's not exceptionally quick, I've switched to the A&D/auto trickler set up and while it wasn't absolutely needed it was wanted very badly. Less headache, faster loading, and I have confidence every batch I load is the same. For me there's just no return on my investment for one or two kernals more of accuracy.
I can see that. For the money the 10-10 is a very good scale. And yes ELR is all about removing as many variables as possible. I do weigh each bullet and group them...LOL
A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48ceproducts.shop
Enter code "Cambridge" at checkout.
Thanks dirthead1! I just ordered this and look forward to putting it to good use! Great deal! Thanks so much!
Jim
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