Reloading with the same weight bullet?

[fastnf]

I am shooting a savage 110 hs precision and have been using lapua brass with vn570 and scenar 300. I shot a whitetail deer at 700 yards twice and he walked off. I thought I ranged wrong and missed. Luckily I investigated the target location and found a blood trail. I knew that pass through would be an issue with a scenar, but I was really disappointed with 4 holes in the vitals area of a buck and have it walk off. Almost no expansion or breakup. I did find the deer 130 yards away dead, but with 2400 ft/lbs of energy available at 700 yards I need to develop a hunting round. Do I have to start completely over with development or can I expect a 300 grain hunting round to shoot similarly as the scenar with minor tweaks to bc, charge, and seating depth?

If so what is recommended in 300 grain for this gun?

Thanks. I am new to shooting and hunting and owe snipers hide for my first buck and success ar 700 yards. Just looking to make those hits count with more force.

 

[George63]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

the vitals area of a deer is about 8" or moa at 700 yds so not that realistic to expect 100% perfect hits in a hunting weight rifle under field conditions

the high BC/match projectiles that are most likely to give reliable consistency are not the same as those that are designed expressly to give reliable expansion(quick kill with less than ideal placement)

as far as a hunting projectile load it will almost always have a lower BC - so different trajectory

there is no real life solution that will do everything you want - personally I have nothing against long distance hunting within reason, but if you think you are not compromising hunting ethics to some degree you are really BS ing yourself

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Thanks george. I understand your points and the bc change. I was wanting to know about the physical gun and barrel reactions to an exact weight bullet. Thanks.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

It should be very close if you match bullet weight and shape within reason. Of course there is probably not an exact match for the Scenar but you should be able to get close enough.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

The standard rule is that if you change ANYTHING in the load recipie, you start over--that is start near min and work you way back up watching for pressure signs.

Also note: as the caliber gets bigger the consequences of doing it wromg magnify rapidly.

Given a load recipie that is nowhere near MAX, and all you ar changing is bullet, drop back 2% and work back up from there.

Different shank lengths and lead densities inside the bullte along with guilding brass thicknesses will change how pressure rises as the bullet engraves itself on the lands. These effects could increase or decrease pressure. So just be safe.

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

That's what I was hoping. I'll back off and work it back up. I'm at 91.5 grain of VN570 now and it slightly compresses when seating the bullet.

Any suggestions for consistent and high quality hunting bullets in a high BC? When I hit something I want it to know next time...

This is my third deer with this round and the first one that didn't just drop in its tracks, but this was at a further distance and velocity was down compared to the other two. That with the combined effect of not hitting any bones just didn't break up the bullet much, so not much damage at the terminal end.

I choose my situations when pulling the trigger. This is the first and only deer I shot this year. I had a clear shot, conditions were right and I put two in him before he moved. I have hits on steel out to 1000 yards (haven't tried further yet) and hit that on my first shot (some luck involved, but calculations were good)

My daughter dropped a buck in its tracks at 180 yards with a 22-250 with a 55 grain. We practice quite a bit so when we go hunting we don't just go shooting up everything in sight. When we get out the 22's she's a tough 10 year old for me to beat on paper.

This is only my second hunting season and first full year with a rifle and I love it and am learning more all the time thanks to you guys.

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Looks like the Nosler Accubonds and new ALR's may be my only choice in 300 grain.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastnf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> This is my third deer with this round and the first one that didn't just drop in its tracks, but this was at a further distance and velocity was down compared to the other two. </div></div>

A 338LM is capable of dropping any animal found in N Americal DRT up to 1000 yards if you hit it in the vital zone. Are you sure your first shot plugged him in the vitals?

That is, I don't think it was a loss in velocity that was responsible for the nonDRT result.

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Yes one shot was completely in the rib area. That shot passed in and out of the ribs without touching a bone and the exit wound was smaller than a quarter. The other shot passed through ribs farther back and exited behind the ribs in the gut area. The vital cavity was full of blood but I did not examine the organs. It was dark and I was in a hurry. The does that I shot around 300 yards had exit wounds about fist sized. Velocity was higher at impact.

 

[CanSniper]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Both the 300 SMK and Berger expand real nice.
But you will have to fine tune your load. I would back down for safety sake and work back up.

 

[CanSniper]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Here is what the Berger does (very graphic).
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=3704733

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

That's only from 100 yards at high speed and in the head. I had a 300 grain pass lengthwise through a doe at 350 yards. I have found that you need to be very sure of your background with these rifles.

I will have to do some research I guess.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastnf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like the Nosler Accubonds and new ALR's may be my only choice in 300 grain. </div></div>

This would be my choice. Use a bullet designed to expand for hunting. The new ALR looks like it would be a good bullet for your use. Just my .02¢.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Berger 300gn Elite Hunter might be what you are looking for.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

G1=.818 / G7=.419

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Thanks Huckleberry. I'll take a look at it. Those G#'s almost sound too good.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Load-wise, a different bullet is just that. Diameter variances, resistance to obturation, bearing lengths; these can all be different and they will definitely affect the pressure curve and bore transit time.

Assume some ballpark similarities; but best bet, start low and work up. Because of pressure curve variances, you may never be able to precisely match the trajectory curve, but you can get mighty close.

Greg

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

I'm not so worried about the trajectory curve as I can just run the calculator to figure that out pretty easy with enough data. However finding the load that doesn't upset the barrel and group placement seems to be the trick and costs a lot of money in bullets and powder. I guess more money spent on development is just the name of the game. I have a pretty decent long range round right now for target work. Guess I can try to find a good high speed lower weight load too for shorter range stuff and hunting. I don't need to be trying for live targets over 1000 yards anyway.

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Eh. Ballistics on light bullets just don't compare do they.

250's look pretty good.

 

[T J]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

If you're looking to stay with 300 grainers, I will have to point you at the SMK or or OTM. Both have accounted for literally TONS of big game animals over the years. IMHO, if you are talking Hunting only & staying inside 1000k yards, you are wasting your time with a 300 grain bullet. Drop & drift of 250 is going to be better. Again, running a hunting ONLY setup (hey, some of us do that), I would be looking at the 225 or 252 Cutting Edge Bullets. The 225 is a Lazer Beam to 1000k & the 252 will offer more oomph. They are expensive, which doesn't work for a one rifle for all scenario. In that case, the 250 Berger would be WELL worth looking at. If you're dead set on a 300, try the OTM first as the increase in BC is helpful.

 

[fastnf]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Thanks TJ. I have a tactical mil-mil scope so not every round I load has to be the same. Just thought it might make it easier and less expensive to develop a round that way. Inside a thousand you are right that a lighter bullet would have a flatter trajectory but is effected by wind more and has less impact force. However if my bullet does not expand then it doesn't transfer the force effectively. I'll have to look into your suggestion.

Thanks.

 

[esromvre]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

The Jackets on Scenars are to hard for a good soft tissue hit on deer Not enough impact to cause them to expand or distort. So you are left using the Vacume cavity to make the Kill when you dont hit any good solid bone.

A-Max works well for me in smaller calibers.

 

[phreakmode]

Re: Reloading with the same weight bullet?

Berger

300gr Hybrid for target
300gr Elite Hunter for animals