Reloading worth it?

#51
Re: Reloading worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: timelinex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont reload, but here is food for thought.... You guys are counting how many rounds you need to break even with reloading equipment costs, but thats really a faulty premise. The only thing money is good for is buying stuff you need, so when your asking how much something costs, as long as you have the money, the most important cost is loss of value. For example, if you take your $100 and buy a block of gold with it, did you just spend money? You now have $100 dollars worth of gold, and really the same value in your possession. Sell that gold for $100 and your back to square one. Unfortunately most things lose value once used. BUT I have seen that in the shooting world, that loss is minimal. I've noticed shooting things never lose more than 25% of their new value.

SO, What you should be calculating is how long it will take to recoup diminished value. So if you spend $1000 on a reloading setup, and you see used ones easily sell for $800, then you should be calculating how many rounds you have to load to save $200. This is since you still have that $800, just in a different medium.

Clear as mud? figured I would throw that out there, and probably confuse half of you all. </div></div>

Thinking like an economist, I'm an econ major, I like that
grin.gif


thats exactly true, in econ you only want to recoop the "lost" value, the resale value isn't included in the recoop cost. I spent about $600 on my reloading setup and can probably resale $450 of it, more if I sell it separately. So the actual cost I have to make up before I actually start seeing savings is $150. That requires a whole lot less than 600 rounds to make up.
 
#52
Re: Reloading worth it?

I would have never considered buying a 338 Lapua if I didn't reload. Since I knew I could build the rounds at $2.25 each gave me the green light to spend $6500 on a rifle. So as everyone said "it saves per round, cost more as you go"
 
#53
Re: Reloading worth it?

I might be in the minority on this, but half the fun to me is reloading. I get to try different:
1. Powders. Burning at different rates.Using different amounts.
2. Bullets. Seating them different distances from the lands.
3. Cases, which have differing internal volume.
4. Primers, which all behave differently.
Or any combination of these. What fun! Then I get to test them for a level of accuracy at the range that I would never get out of store bought ammo. Oh, and it's less expensive too.
I'm just glad my time ain't worth much, otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford this much fun.
 
#54
Re: Reloading worth it?

It just better feeds the obsession. If you like better accuracy and to shoot more than do it. Don't be suprised if you eventually spend almost $1000 (or more) for all the gear. My advice is to get the good stuff and buy once. I reload for my AR and don't regret it at all. I used to just think rapid fire was fun but now given the effort each round takes, it makes me take my time with each shot, further practicing the fundamentals and thus becoming a better shooter.
 
#55
Re: Reloading worth it?

It really doesnt matter if you are shooting more. You are still getting more for less. If time is an issue, then having a hobby makes less sense.

Handloads can be custom taylored to suit your needs. For some, maybe the FGMM 168s dont seem to work too well, but a 208 AMAX in a hand load shoots bugholes. There are a lot more options available in actual bullet choices than what comes already loaded. If shooting a box of $15 soft points is all you want (because thats all you can find) then by all means.

I spent $200 on a Lymann Starter Kit 3 years ago. I probably have 2k rounds through it for my 30-06. For what I WANT to be able to shoot vs. what I have available to shoot, its better for me to reload. Plus, consider my options now. I am now set to load for .38/.357 and .223. Next is some dies in .40 and .45ACP. $30-45 for each set of dies and then its all back to just the components. You can keep the setup basic and it will still have good value. Whether I get another pistol or rifle, it all comes back to just dies, and components, and time.

Look at it like this. If I were to choose a load that mirrors something like the Hornady TAP or PD line, for my pistol (.45ACP); including the initial ($27) cost of the dies, I would be in at around $120 for everything, to do 100 rounds. It costs $16 a box for the 230gr +p TAP. I need 5 boxes to get 100 rounds.
Total cost? $80, seems like you got screwed, but you only need to purchase the dies once. A one time price difference of $40 dollars is acceptable, considering now for the next 100 I can re-use my brass, I am not gonna blow through 1lb of powder on 100 rounds, in fact you could probably get 1k rounds out of a pond of powder. So primers bullets and brass are all I need, if I want virgin brass. Not to mention you usually buy primers in a 1000ct as well. So now I have powder and primers to do the same thing 9 more times. What would 900 more rounds cost me? About $430 for brass n bullets. How about 900 more factory loads? How about $720. So now I am at a price diff of $290. That pays for my starter kit AND the dies, and that is just one specific caliber.

The prices are just rounded numbers I got straight from Midway. No sales, no deals, just what you would pay off the shelf. You might be able to get loaded ammo elsewhere cheap, but thats IF they have it in stock, IF you can find the deal, and the same rules apply to loading components.

Does this mean I will shoot more? No. Broke is broke. Something I have been for the last year. Simple fact is, if you cant afford ammo one way, you probably cant afford it the other. But if I am spending it, I will be going the most cost effective route. Plus, its almost theraputic, for me at least.
 
#56
Re: Reloading worth it?

Different rifles call for different approaches.

I get a lot of fun out of shooting my SKS, but it isn't the kind of rifle that's going to respond in a stellar manner to load development.

It will shoot handloads at about a 2MOA accuracy level at best, and hardly much worse with East European Berdan FMJ. So I'm thinking handloading for it would be an unnecessary expenditure of time and effort, and it's still at least as expensive doing that as it is to just buy the Berdan stuff in bulk.

I was going to handload for my Savage Scout in the same 7.62x39 chambering, but after a couple of hundred rounds, it's tightened up adequately to hit the 10"-12" 250yd gong with nearly boring consistency, and does it about the same, including POI, with whatever I've fed it. Not much point handloading there, either.

My Garand shows a justifiable accuracy improvement with handloads, and it's also a way of ensuring the best longevity for the essentially irreplaceable OpRod.

I have a Stag Super Varminter on order. Depending on its performance with Hornady Steelcase Match 75gr, and TulAmmo 75gr; I may elect to go with factory steel case ammo, because the prices for those selections are within reason. It may may even end up never seeing a brass casing.

Several of my bolt guns perform outstandingly with handloads, but also do well with premium factory loads, like Hornady Superformance and Custom hunting loads. For hunting, I'll use the factory stuff, and for other applications, I'll stick with the handloads.

My .223 700 VLS is getting to the point where the barrel may no longer be up to match shooting standards, but it's still well inside the limits for hunting 'Chucks. I would say that over its lifetime, it's only seen factory loads around 5-10% of the time, and that was mostly for breaking in new shooters.

I will probably never feel comfortable letting other shooters use my rifles with my own (or any other) handloads for potential liability reasons.

My shotguns perform well enough with a wide variety of reasonably affordable factory fodder that on that basis, the investment in a shotgin handloading facility just isn't very compelling.

If I ever get off my butt and take on the LR Slugging challenge that's currently brewing around here, that may change. I have a legacy 12ga press gathering dust, but my approach will almost certainly be limited to 20ga.

My 30BR match gun is a handloads-only proposition.

My 260 Savage Predator Hunter is the same way. I just don't like what commercial .260 Rem offerings are currently available. If Fed came out with a .260 142SMK Gold Medal Match product line, I'd be paying rapt attention. Oops!

Greg
 
#57
Re: Reloading worth it?

I always get amused by people coming to a shooter's site and the reloading forum to ask "is reloading worth it?" What do they expect, that we would advise them to take up golf instead? (Come to think of it, given the question, perhaps that WOULD be best. ??)
 
#58
Re: Reloading worth it?

From my perspective, reloading has paid for it self. I would not have built my 6.5x47 if I didn't reload. I refuse to pay $70 for 20 rounds of anything I'm going to the range and shooting a lot of. So in very little time, my set up paid for itself when shooting that caliber. Even factoring in the brass costs, I saved over $1 a round on the first shot through the brass. The next reloads are going to be saving over $2 a round.

When considering 308, .223, and handgun ammo. I can load more precise ammo for 1/3 the cost. I'm looking to get into casting for my handguns so my costs will go down even more. But everyone is right. You save 1/2 the cost but just shoot 2x as much. I will take that trade off anyday.
 
#59
Re: Reloading worth it?

Simple answer: Nope
Smartass answer: The last thing we need is more people buying primers by the case who don't shoot 500rds a year. Take up another hobby.
Really smartass answer: You'll put your eye out!!

(These were all actually smartassed answers)

If you buy every gadget, that every internet commando on the reloading forum suggests to you, then absolutely, no it is not worth it. I have tallied up suggestions I have seen given to new guys that went well over most working stiff budgets. It is worth it, if you start simple and thrifty, and learn to crawl before you walk. Expensive tools and gadgets do not make you a better handloader.

It sounds like you want to feed a round muncher. You will be one hell of a long time paying for a progressive, + you gotta have the Giraud...and the SS media cleaning...and $400 here and $200 there...and on and on and on.

If all you want to do is see how fast you can empty a magazine and make a Youtube video then buy your ammo.
If you want to load some good ammo to see if your accuracy improves then buy a reasonable priced single stage press and just the basics, no fancy assed cleaners and tumblers, trimmers with automatic tissue dispensers, concentricity guages, meplat trimmers and unformers, etc etc ad nauseum.
Try it simple and see if you like it then add a piece here and there.
 
#60
Re: Reloading worth it?

Ancient history: I used to buy Hodgdons powder in 1# cardboard containers for $1.95 and just about any local sporting goods store carried it. When Sierra was local, I could buy seconds for 10 cents on the dollar. Times change; also known in some circles as progress.

If the price for components keeps going up and somebody else is getting rich off the totally unjustified hazmat fees, then we might be better off buying gold, or at least cheap imported ammo and deluding ourselves about it's accuracy.

In the mean time, I will try and convince myself that what I am reading here is truth; handloading saves me scads of money. Such a pile of money that I can now afford that vacation in St Barts I always wanted.
BB
 
#62
Re: Reloading worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Squid284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't be suprised if you eventually spend almost $1000 (or more) for all the gear.</div></div>

Don't ask how much my last press and die order was. The odd part is (not counting the only 20% depreciation), I'll have shot enough to pay for it by the end of the year. Even the set of dies that are still in the box for the rifle I haven't shot yet. It may not be saved money but it is volume of quality ammo. After I buy the new trimmer next year it'll take me another 6 months of shooting to pay off that purchase. Of course my press, that trimmer and the dies still in the box and the rifle I haven't shot yet will come out to play then meaning that my ammo will cost the price of components.

Maybe the best way to wrap this up is, "Rolling your own will allow you to shoot as much as you want, not see how good last weeks white box Wallychester shoots at 75 yards."
 
#63
Re: Reloading worth it?

My attitude is; don't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining. I gladly spend outrageous sums for superior ammunition, but I don't think I'm doing it to SAVE MONEY. Even more illogical is; now I can shoot 2X more, 4X more than before. I am not cursed with trigger happy fever. Now that I have it, might as well shoot it up? Whatever. St Barts? I will let you know. First, I need to shoot more, so that I can save more. BB
 
#64
Re: Reloading worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1SMALLJOHNSON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Round two:

Is reloading worth it?

Answer: It depends on who you are...

1- Match/accuracy shooter?
2- Amateur ballistician?
3- Strictly Economy shooter?
4- Volume shooter?

The match/accuracy shooter will virtually ALWAYS find that reloading pays off, and is a far better value than buying off the shelf.

The amateur ballistician will virtually ALWAYS find that reloading pays off, as he/she can tailor far easier the reloads than playing mexi-match with factory loads.

The strictly economy shooter will look for the cheapest/easiest solution to shooting only a few rounds. Likely, there's little/no value in reloading to this shooter.

The volume shooter will again look for best value. Sometimes they'll find it cheaper to shoot factory ammo, sometimes cheaper to shoot reloads. It all depends on the prices for the components, shipping/hazmat, travel time, inventory carrying costs, etcetera.

The above answers are why we all individually all have different answers to the question of reloading value.

Here's an example: 55 grain .223 was recently advertised at 5.99 per box of 20, major US manufacturer. That works out to $0.30/round.

If Joe A. Public wants to reload the same ammo, and this same guy doesn't live near a reloading distributor, then they're going to pay SOMEWHERE near the following:

$0.127/bullet
$0.10/powder
$0.03/primer
$0.01/lube, materials, etc.

Total: $0.27/round

Difference per 20 rounds is $0.60. That doesn't take into account brass, nor time, nor tooling.

Now, I grant you, $5.99/box of 20 is on the cheap side for factory ammo, but we all know that there are deals to be had.

Further, if you're looking into the price difference between match factory and match reload then the price per round factory versus reload will differ significantly (as in prior posts).

My statement stands, but I further wish to clarify: If you're looking for "commodity" ammo, it's hard to economically justify it. If you're a volume shooter wanting commodity ammo, it just might be best to shop around for the volume deals.

Then again, if you're anything like the rest of us on this site, we take great pride in our reloading. We know we can make superior ammo, and we'll do it day-in and day-out. Some of us like reloading so much that we'd go to the range for nothing more than the chance to pick up once-fired shells and generate our own brass!

My suggestion: Define what you want out of reloading, then caveat emptor. </div></div>

I don't reload .223. You said you worked it up for .45ACP. That was why I was curious.

You can save about $.40 a shot on 308, but the volume of bolt action 308 ammo shot doesn't really equate to volume of pistol ammo shot, so there is a lot more savings in pistol.

Savings for precision rifle is non-existent depending on how expensive one wants to get with equipment.
 
#65
Re: Reloading worth it?

I just wanna throw my $.02 in... I've been reloading on my own for only a couple years now. I honestly think that I'm saving money, or at least I will be in the long run... I bought a .338 LM and up here, factory match ammo is around $170CDN ($171.50USD) per 20. NOT EFFIN' CHEAP! I've got over 300 rounds through it already. That's $2550($2572). I know I haven't spent nearly that much on enough components to build 300 rounds. 300 of my reloads comes to $523ish. I'd say by then, most of my equipment is paid for... That's one out of 5 fireamrs I reload for.

But most of all, I do it because I enjoy it. I find it almost a form of meditation...
 
#66
Re: Reloading worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savings for precision rifle is non-existent depending on how expensive one wants to get with equipment.</div></div>

FINALLY! We agree on something!

That, and ultra stainless tumbling media. BB
 
#67
Re: Reloading worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP,
4. Your free time is NOT worth anything. </div></div>
farside_einstein-233x300.gif


My free time is negative money.
 
#68
Re: Reloading worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OP,
4. Your free time is NOT worth anything. </div></div>
farside_einstein-233x300.gif


My free time is negative money. </div></div>

If your free time is negative money, than why do you have any free time? Sure I can work out how much money I make a day considering I work my 8 hours a day at my salary. But in reality am I getting paid x$ an hour to play modern warfare or to watch porn? Probably not. In reality I get paid from the time I show up to work and I stop getting paid by the time I get off. Sure I tend to spend money on my time off, but that's why I work. Work to play and play to work right?

I have saved money considering my local gun shop sells 45 acp ammo for $20 a box of 50. I can reload 45 ammo for less than 1/3 that cost. My set up has paid for it self by now at least.
 
#69
Re: Reloading worth it?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Your free time is NOT worth anything. Let me repeat that YOUR FREE TIME IS NOT WORTH ANYTHING. To all those people here who say "my time is worth $X or $y/hr," I say Bullshit! Nobody will pay you to watch bachelorette, American Idol, play guitar hero, or do anything you feel is "worth your time". If you dint waste your time reloading, you'll find some other way to piss it away.</div></div>

This is the best quote I have seen on here in awhile! I also agree with the sentiment that you will shoot more when you start to reload. I like to think of it this way, the more I shoot the more I spread out the cost of the equipment per shot! </div></div>

I'm sorry, but that is the most ridiculous thing I've seen said ANYWHERE in a long time.

Maybe YOUR free time is worth nothing.

I've got a 3 year old little girl that demands every free minute I have outside of work. She is everything to me. If I'm going to take anything, I mean ANYTHING at all away from her to participate in anything shooting related.....it will be actually pulling the trigger.

My priority is my family. I don't have fuck off time. If I take some time away from her, I'm gonna be shooting, not wasting time pressing ammo. I'll pay someone else right now to do e boring time consuming stuff.

When she's a little older...maybe then I'll start reloading.
 
#70
Re: Reloading worth it?

Unless you pop on a progressive, I wouldn't bother loading 5.56 unless you're doing it for a bolt gun. There is a lot of cheap 5.56 you can purchase for blasting away in an AR platform.

Loading the 308 is quite another thing. Yes, you will save money but the real benefit is custom loading for your rifle only. Handloading will take the accuracy that your rifle is capable of to a completely different level that you will ONLY achieve if you custom load for it ( and you learn how ).

Handloading rifle ammo is a labor of love and it takes time to do it correctly... all the brass prep involved to do it correctly is time consuming and, there's no way around that unless you spend some dollars.

You can do it with a hand trimmer etc. but, that just keeps you at the bench a lot longer than at the range.

If your question is reserved for .223 and .308 and money savings, you can save money on the 308 for sure... forget with the .223 it is just too time consuming for blasting ammo when there isn't much savings there.

I load .223 but, I do it on a progressive press dropping ball powder and rapid trimming the cases during the sizing operation with a case feeder so, I can do a couple of thousand in a day but, that set up is not a cheap one or one for a beginner to attempt, IMHO.

So to load .223, you polish the cases, lube them and drop them into the case feeder, run them through the sizer/trimmer, take them out, put them back into the polisher to tumble the lube off them, change out the toolhead, adjust the powder drop, set up seating depth etc.... load up the primer tubes, put the brass back into the case feeder after cleaning the lube out of it and then start loading.... Even doing it with the right set up takes quite a bit of time and effort...

Consider, I've seen 5.56 blasting ammo and the gun shows for a little less than 200.00 / thousand.... when you have brass, you can only load for about .17 / round or 170.00 / thousand.

Of course, this would be better quality ammo but, consider without a rapid trimmer, you'd spend weeks reloading 1000 rounds and you'd be pretty tired of trimming brass one at a time on a hand trimmer.
 
#71
Re: Reloading worth it?

Simply put.

It is time vs. money. If you shoot a lot and have the time reload both calibers.

Some people, such as myself, consider reloading a part of shooting-it's the best way to find the best accuracy in your rifle(s).

I wouldn't say I save money reloading, I can just justify putting more rounds down range.

It's also easier to to justify to the wife.
 
#72
Re: Reloading worth it?

My free time is not worthless, my free time is PRICELESS, I think you may have mixed up those terms.


Just get it all like Johnny. That is the way I have over the years. I have gotten some real steals on used equipment.

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#73
Re: Reloading worth it?

You gentlemen are arguing about something called "marginal utility" as it relates to your use of your time, and each one of you will value their "next" unit of free time differently. <span style="font-weight: bold">There is no answer to the question</span>, the answer is as individual as all of us are.

We all have different needs and wants.

We all have a different scale of value for those individual needs and wants; IOW, we rank them differently.

Murray Rothbard, <span style="text-decoration: underline">Man, Economy and State</span>:

<span style="font-style: italic">"It is important to realize that there is never any possibility of measuring increases or decreases in happiness of satisfaction. Not only is it impossible to <span style="text-decoration: underline">measure</span> or compare changes in the satisfaction of different people; it is not possible to measure changes in the happiness of an individual person. There is no fixed objective measuring unit in the field of human valuation."</span>

As for myself, I reload because I love to, and because it enables me to produce higher quality ammo for target purposes. I find it relaxing and satisfying. I got started reloading because it was cheaper (my dad already had equipment), and then kept on reloading when I started shooting pistol competitively. The quantities of .45ACP ammo I expended were prodigious.

I love tinkering. Reloading greatly increases the satisfaction I experience from the shooting sports.

Reloading and shooting a ton of .45 in my early years greatly helped me understand what a trigger feels like and how to use one. Shooting a lot of .22 pistol (one with a good trigger) can do the same thing. The trigger finger and pistol are unforgiving, especially when one shoots "conventional pistol" one handed. The trigger finger must learn to do its thing completely independently of everything else that is going on; it must impart no movement to the weapon. I learned this by shooting .45 pistol, and I'd not have learned it had I not reloaded.

YMMV.

Yes, I am one of those awful libertarians who've read Rothbard.
 
#74
Re: Reloading worth it?

Long ago I sat through an economics lecture and saw a plot a how much would you pay for a coke if you were dying of thirst, how much for the second, etc. until the price was negative.
That must have been "Marginal Utility".

That must be the downward slope of personal demand vs quantity.

In 2004 when Midsouth had various Hornady blem bullets for 7 cents per bullet delivered, I went into hoarding mode. UPS limited shipments to 80 pounds per box. I found out how shallow my marginal utility curve was for reloading.
 
#75
Re: Reloading worth it?

That should be a given. If you shoot, you should reload. My personal involvement is predator hunting, and I know thousands of hardcore predator hunters personally. I am always surprised when I find someone that doesn't handload. The idea of buying twenty at a time, different lot numbers, seems at odds with precision shooting. And, that's what predator hunting is, at this level; precision shooting with very expensive gear. To my way of thinking, it cannot be done using factory ammunition, or it is, (at least) a severe handicap.

So, my situation does not involve banging away at gongs and expending thousands of rounds doing it. But, I must hit what I aim at or I am wasting my time. This is why I never entered into handloading with the idea of saving money. In fact, it costs me quite a bit more to handload than it would to buy factory ammunition.

Yes, some handgun cartridges are economical to reload but I don't do a great deal of that stuff, just dink around, whereas I'm dead serious about rifle handloading.

This is the problem. Everybody has different motivation and different behavior, different disciplines, likes and dislikes. And, I guess they save money by handloading. But, I do not. I do it because I enjoy it. Like somebody said previously, like Zen, or as I claim, it's good therapy. I like working with my hands and producing a superior product.

I don't understand the high volume banging away at paper, but, it's a big tent. BB
 
#77
Well I started this thread last YEAR and followed a lot of this advise!
I did not start to reload and bought factory
Shot it all up ;now my Question Again
Isnreloading worth it
So Funny to look back a year at what guys where posting as prices for
5.56
223
308
338
Boy what a year does to those prices!!!!
Thank you
John
 
#78
Let's do some math (yay!)



Assumptions: Pre-panic prices (I hope they come back some day!), brass factory ammo bought initially (see explanation below)



For 223, the min things I can think of to buy:

Hornady LNL press = $350 (you have to consider that 500 free bullet deal!)
.223 shell plate for the press = $35
Dies = $40

Ancillary items required:

Tumbler = $85
rotary media separator (huge time saver!) = $35
corncob, case lube, polish = $30ish
decent scale = $60
case gauge = $30
WFT case trimmer = $70
bullet puller = $25

All this is $760



You can add more $ for more quality in some areas, and even subtract some! And here's an idea, SHARING things with friends, like case trimmers, bullet puller etc, saves $ even further, but for the math part let's assume the full value here.


Now on to components

8lb of H335 powder = $152 (at my local place) ---> $0.065 / rnd (24gr charge weight)
1,000 primers = $28 (at my local place) ----> $0.028 / rnd
2,000 Hornady 55gr FMJ = $175 (at my local place, powder valley) ----> $0.0875 / rnd

Let's NOT include the per round price of brass, since we are talking about RE-loading (this precludes that you have brass that you kept from factory rounds, which cost you nothing to RE-load, but maybe $0.15 / rnd to buy from people once fired, but if we factor this price we are talking about LOADING and RE-loading not just RE-loading). So if you are comparing the costs of a reloader to that of a guy who buys factory and trashes his brass, then it doesn't enter into the equation.



So at $0.18 / rnd, compared to say $0.38 / rnd (for factory stuff) -----> $0.20 savings / rnd -----> $200 savings per 1,000rnds


Don't bother comparing any of this with Wolf, Tula or Brown Bear ammo prices. This would be an apples to oranges comparison. They use cheap junk powder, cheap primers, low labor costs, and un-reloadable cases. That said, there is still savings available as presented. And there is still more savings available by using elusive surplus powder, cheaper armscor bullets, and wolf primers.



This is just for 223. For pistol, you REALLY don't worry about the cost of the brass. And just tack on an extra $80 for shell plate and dies, and you'd end up with savings varying from $100-$300 / 1,000rnds

As our resident economists and accountants have pointed out, the savings are really higher since the only money you truly loose is based on the total depreciation of your equipment, not the full $760.


As for the argument of adding the time spent into the equation, is time = money? At one point in my life I was presented with the opportunity to work UNLIMITED overtime as an engineer (we were paid for OT plus extra). It made no sense economically for me to spend my time doing ANYthing else than work. I should have paid people to mow my lawn for me, heck, even to do all house chores. I could never justify time spent reloading compared to my job, especially comparing mowing my lawn to my job. But I preferred to leave my job after a reasonable amount of time and do all those things myself, party because I like mowing my own lawn, and I HATED the idea of being at work FOREVER. lol.


So is it a cost saver? YES!
Is it a value saver? Depends on you!
 
#79
Im new to reloading. So far my answer is no. Its too expensive to get going, a lot of work to prep rifle rounds, and components are a fucking rat race to find right now. Im really thinking of selling all my shit.
 
#80
Ok, I'm going to attempt to give you the most unbiased answers I possibly can.

My costs to load 100 rounds of:

.40 S&W FMJ: $15.90
9mm FMJ: $11.90
Both of those calibers are using brass I picked up at the range, whether mine or someone elses.

.223 MATCH GRADE (69gr Sierra MatchKing): $31 (using brass purchased at $235/2k pieces, assuming 6 reloads per piece)
.308 COMPETITION GRADE (185gr Berger Hybrid): $65 (using brass once-fired by me from factory ammo - price will go up when I start buying virgin brass)


If you can purchase 100 rounds of any of the above, at that grade, for the same or less money, then no, you won't save money by reloading. Even at the prices of yesteryear, Remington UMC Megapacks of .40 S&W were $70/250 rounds. That works out to $28/100 for what most consider to be mediocre ammo. I "save" $12.10 per hundred.

As for equipment: Granted, I went all out, and I'm not going to list everything I bought here because it would make me ill. To pull the handle on my first .40 round, I was $1200 in. To begin reloading for 9mm was another $225. To begin reloading for .223 was $500. To being reloading for .308 it was $550. Those are all just rough numbers, but figure I'm somewhere in the neighborhood of $2500 or so - IN GEAR. So, how long will it take to "pay off" my gear? Take my prices above, and compare them to what you can purchase comparable factory ammo for. Figure out the cost difference, and that will tell you how many rounds I would have to reload to "pay it off". That will also depend on how much you actually SHOOT.

I'm not that worried about it. It's fun.

The big thing, for me, is that I'm very happy I reload. I hear lots of my friends bitching about how they can't go to the range. Me? I'm able to shoot and not worry. It just kind of happens that way. When you get into reloading, you want to pay the lowest cost possible for components, so you end up buying in bulk. Bullets by (at least) the 1000, powder 8 pounds at a time, primers 10k at a time.. Keeps your per-bang prices low, but also allows you to have a "stock" of items to weather times such as these.

I plan to begin reloading .45 ACP in the next month or two. Equipment cost will be $225 or so, and it will cost me about $17.70 per hundred using 230gr FMJ.

Is it worth it? I've given you the info. Only you can decide if it's worth it - TO YOU. To me? It's invaluable. And, it's a great winter hobby.
 
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#81
JackLuLu you live on Long Island. Having recently purchased a LMT and a DPMS indicates you have plenty of operating revenue. (well my bad, cannot read dates)

Hook up with someone who reloads there on the island and see if it's for you. Easy way to do it is to go to your favorite gun shop, get to know them and then get some introductions.

I see you already bought a bunch of factory ammo. If it's not for you, buy enough ammo to get you through the craziness, then buy a pallet or two of each caliber you shoot, store it and shoot like a m'effer.
 
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#82
I got into reloading a year ago.
I'd been saving my brass since I started shooting, around 4 years ago.
As a result I had quite a bit of brass to use when I finally bought equipment.
I am still finding all the components I need and more at non-gouge pricing. I have to check vendors every day or 2 to find what I need in stock.
Primers and powder are harder to find, though, and prices have gone up 10%, at least for all the stuff I use.


One thing's for DAMN sure;
All of my shooting friends are limiting their range time because of ammo cost and availability.
I'm sitting on thousands of rounds of ammo for everything I shoot, and I still have lots of components.
Still, I keep my eyes peeled for more.

I'm going shooting in the AM (first time in weeks due to work overload) and you can bet I will pickup whatever range brass is worth picking up.

Joe
 
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#83
Thanks guys
I am going to pass on reloading brass for now
I do load a great deal of 28 gauge, my wife and young son Love to shoot that gauge so we eat up ammo
I do enjoy shooting my rifles and have just gotten in to pistols (Boy 1911s was not an addiction that I needed :)
But for now I will hold brass and just buy factory
Most of my ammo is prpurchased from the boys out at Southwest Ammo ( they load it better than I can shoot it, but I try to make them proud )
Thank you all again
Have a great weekend
John
 
#84
Yes


It is worth it for for: convenience, quality, better understanding of shooting.

convenience - when I want more rounds in a particular caliber I simply load them up. The lower cost allows me to stack'm deep, so the latest hysteria has had no impact on me.

Quality - much better consistency than all but the best match ammo.

Better understanding - I have a much better understanding of what matters and what does not in regard to loading match grade ammo.
 
#85
if you wanted to save money you wouldnt have goten into this hobby...

yes reloading can save a ton if you can get a deal on components... which your more likley to rope a techno collored unicorn right now... if you got into it 5 years ago and stocked up youd be glad you did.
 
#87
Also have an econ degree(chef by trade though). I started reloading when Southwest ammo's prices went up. Loved the stuff, but I am cheap. Now I shoot 3-4 times as much because I like reloading as much as I like shooting. So we can look at added value of the enjoyment of reloading, plus the savings on individual rounds, plus the investment in equipment that doesn't depreciate much. PLUS I actually can make better ammo than southwest, nothing against them, but I(my rifle) like different bullets. Now, some people look at this shortage as a bad thing, I just look at it as a challenge. I get to figure out how to make great ammo out of different stuff. Note: I only reload and shoot 308 win.
 
#88
I can reload for cheap ammo, or quality ammo. Occasionally the components on sale line up so that I actually end up with cheaper high quality ammo. The advantage for me is buying components when they are on sale, and saving them up until I can get all the ones I need, then I load up a batch of cheap, high quality ammo.

Because manufacturers can buy in huge quantities, they can often get components so much cheaper than I can, that it is cost neutral buying ready made ammo.

The above info is for rifle ammo. I can almost always reload 45acp hardball cheaper than I can buy it. I would get brass free at training courses where it would get tossed unless I took it. I don't teach any more, so those days are gone, but I still have enough pistol brass to last for quite a while. 9mm is almost always cheaper to buy if you just want something like aluminum cased Blazer, or something like egyptian ball.

All this of course does not take into account the cost of the tooling necessary to make safe, accurate ammo.
 
#89
Reloading is a magnificent obsession. Glad I learned how about 30 years ago. Still learning too..Yes I saved money but more important I loaded rounds exactly the way I wanted them. While others were crying about an ammo shortage, I just kept on shooting.

Go ahead and take the plunge!
 
#90
luvtolean said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Robot Doc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your talking to the wife........ Saving money absolutely!! The rest of us that know better.... shoot 4X as much. LOL! </div></div>

"Honey, what are these charges to someone named Doug Giraud in Texas?"

"Savin' money babe."

grin.gif
Click to expand...

Yeah, they should understand this. After all, my wife tells me how much she saved by buying something on sale. I see it as she spent money---but I'm smart enough to say, "Cool," and then remember this logic when I need to justify my "savings" in a purchase of ammo etc.... :D
 
#92
Lofty said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DamnYuppie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tx_Flyboy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Your free time is NOT worth anything. Let me repeat that YOUR FREE TIME IS NOT WORTH ANYTHING. To all those people here who say "my time is worth $X or $y/hr," I say Bullshit! Nobody will pay you to watch bachelorette, American Idol, play guitar hero, or do anything you feel is "worth your time". If you dint waste your time reloading, you'll find some other way to piss it away.</div></div>

This is the best quote I have seen on here in awhile! I also agree with the sentiment that you will shoot more when you start to reload. I like to think of it this way, the more I shoot the more I spread out the cost of the equipment per shot! </div></div>

I'm sorry, but that is the most ridiculous thing I've seen said ANYWHERE in a long time.

Maybe YOUR free time is worth nothing.

I've got a 3 year old little girl that demands every free minute I have outside of work. She is everything to me. If I'm going to take anything, I mean ANYTHING at all away from her to participate in anything shooting related.....it will be actually pulling the trigger.

My priority is my family. I don't have fuck off time. If I take some time away from her, I'm gonna be shooting, not wasting time pressing ammo. I'll pay someone else right now to do e boring time consuming stuff.

When she's a little older...maybe then I'll start reloading.
Click to expand...

Okay, but you wasted all this time to read this thread and to post into it.....you could have loaded 20 rounds in that time!
 
#95
reloading a year ago was just because it was part of the whole shooting thing. .223 worked out to about 23cents a round. now? have you priced even "cheap" ammo. .22 is now selling for what you could buy 5.56 for last year.
sure will be glad when the DHS and hoarders get their fill.
 
#100
If you're looking to "Save Money" by reloading your own ammo, you'll be pretty disappointed initially.

However, if you're interested in achieving the maximum accuracy potential for your given firearm, you'll be quite satisfied. As you can probably guess, reloading is a nice mix of science, art, and persistence. There's real satisfaction that comes from working up a load for a rifle that previously shot around 1.0-MOA (or worse) with factory ammo, and is now drilling ragged holes less than 0.5-MOA,... even 0.25-MOA,... with your handloads.

Once you start reloading, doing some research, and playing with various components, it's easy to get hooked on quality i.e. the best bullets, the best brass, the best dies,...etc. which isn't exactly helping you achieve that 'net savings' you initially thought you'd garner. Now that you have the ability to use 'anything' you want for your reloads, see their effects on your accuracy, and tweak them infinitely to suit your rifle, you'll end up buying the "good stuff" for your reloads,... I certainly do,... I figure if I've going to invest my money and more importantly, my time to reload my ammo,... it better damn well be the best shooting stuff ever!

Like you, I got into reloading mostly to save money and partially to tailor more accurate ammunition for my rifles,... but now I'm hooked on achieving the highest level of accuracy and could care less about the cost. It's a great hobby and you'll learn a ton,... but don't think it's going to save you money. I guess if you follow timelinex's logic, you could recoup the majority of your investment in money when you sell your reloading setup, but that supposes that you'll be able to sell it all,... doubtful, but possible,... and if you're going to get that anal, you'd will need to account for your investment in time as well,... which can be considerable,... but it is enjoyable.

Also, another side-benefit to reloading that I didn't anticipate is the great people you'll meet. Sure, there are some idiots, there always are, but the majority of folks reloading are great and you'll learn a lot just conversing with them at the range. If you do end up liking reloading and want to pursue achieving the highest level of accuracy out of your rifle, go to a benchrest match and talk to the shooters, see how they lovingly prep their brass, and ask how they work up a load,... I learned the most by entering several benchrest matches with my factory rifle (this group allowed factory rifles to shoot along in a different class),... I then purchased a really nice benchrest gun (6ppc, BAT action, Bartlien barrel, Jewel Trigger,...etc. the who shabang),... I've since sold it as I wasn't cut out for benchrest (not enough action), but it sure was a great learning experience that I use in reloading for my other rifles. Just a thought.

Ry
 
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