Rem 504 w/Lilja barrel..reprofile?

[R Moran]

This might belong in the gunsmithing section..

I've had a Remington 504 at a gunsmith now for a very long time. He supposedly had some personal/family issues to deal with..this has given me some time to rethink what I had originally wanted done.

I had originally wanted a custom inletted fiberglass stock, reprofile the heavy Lilja barrel,thread it, paint, etc. The Lilja displayed some reliability issues with various ammo, ie: failure to extract. The smith assured it could be fixed.

After a long wait, it would seem he's about to get started on it...I canceled the synthetic stock,and sent him a factory laminate target stock.
Now, I'm re-considering the re-profiling and threading. Partly just to speed the process and cut costs..my .22 was going to cost more then my 308..but, I've also read about tight spots in the bore, etc. and started to think the re-profiling might have an adverse effect on the barrel's accuracy. I'm probably crazy, but thought I would ask...that Lilja is f'in heavy..

Any other thoughts on the Remington 504? Theres a T on gunbroker I've been eyeing..

Right now my luck with .22's and gunsmiths has not been too good...I'm also having issues with a worked over 581..

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Bwana John]

I have a 504 with lijha SS 21" varmint weight barrel and EPS Match chamber.

I really like the wood stock's shape, size and feel, but as a hunting type stock, not as a "tactical" stock. (matches my Rem700 Mnt Rifle stock almost perfectly)

I like the varmint profile barrel, really balances well with the standard wood stock.

The trigger can be set to a VERY-VERY nice pull.

Bolt is attached to bolt body in a cheesy manner, I finally retapped set screw to larger size and epoxied handle to body.

Never had a problem with unfired rounds extracting.

Will not shoot consistent, there are "flyers" (for a match barrel) (for every 2-3 < dime sized 5 shot groups at 50 yds, you get one quarter sized group)

I have tried all kind of bedding options, and never lost the "flyer" syndrome.

If I had alot of money into it Id be bummed, but I bought if from someone else who decided to cut his losses (flyers).

I consider it a GREAT walking through the woods, squirrel hunting kind of rifle, and a not so great match rifle... But Im comparing it to Annies and 40Xs.

PS I sold off the standard profile OEM .22 LR barrel that came with it for $25 shipped if that lets you know what I think of the barrel it came with.

 

[R Moran]

Bwana,
A friend had the Lilja target taper on it, before I bought it from him and ordered the drop in Lilja, the heavier one, I forget the muzzle diameter, but it's close to an inch I think...I thought the target taper, about .650 at the muzzle, looked out of place in the target stock.
A little research turned up that extraction problems were not un heard of in the Lilja's, some of the extractor cut out's were a bit shallow I think. Remington told me to have a smith check for this.
I've also heard of the mysterious flyers and weak bolt handle juncture.

I wanted to use it as a sorta trainer, or precision plinker if you will.

I've got a Savage/Anschutz 64 and a Remington 540X for shooting groups, and some informal 50yd small bore shooting.

Last I talked to the smith, he said it should be done by the end of the month..or he's gonna start on it by then. He didn't seem to think that re-profiling the barrel would be a problem..I was looking at something similiar to a Rem Varmint contour.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[djdilliodon]

The 504's can be decent shooters with a lilja but the cz 455 and quad are better IMO. The failure to extract certain ammo is the cost of having a match chamber. Those eps match chambers are short and tight!

 

[Bwana John]

The 504's can be decent shooters with a lilja but the cz 455 and quad are better IMO. The failure to extract certain ammo is the cost of having a match chamber. Those eps match chambers are short and tight!

The stock shape, trigger, magazines, and safety on the 504 are superior to the CZ IMHO, but you usually dont need to buy a Lilja barrel to get the CZ to shoot well.

 

[Hammertime]

".my .22 was going to cost more then my 308.."



Ha! A rimfire costing more than my .308!! Who would do such a thing!!
Now that's funny! ( sarcasm, lots and lots of sarcasm )

 

[R Moran]

My friend who I bought it from, is fairly big into .22's, and used to shoot small bore silhouette...actually we're gonna hit a match this weeked I think.
He's had/has a lot of different .22's, from various Annies, Ruger, CZ, Rem581's, etc.

We've come to the conclusion that to get what we want, it's going to take a smith and some cash...a lot of cash.

I like the 504 for the things mentioned by bwana, but there are less options for it. The T model seems to get mixed reviews, with some shooting very good.
I like the 581 because they have locking lugs, basically a mini 788..but the mags suck.
The 77/22 didn't have a stock available that I liked w/o costing a fortune. And your limited on scope mounting options...but mags are flush and plentiful.

and on and on..

I've actually been considering binning the 504 & 581 projects and starting over with either an Annie, Sako or CZ and be done with it. But, sometime you spend to much money to easily turn your back on them....kinda like strippers..

Bob

ETA:
Hammertime,
I hear ya, and agree...22's and air-rifles are no less deserving of the best as any other gun..but..precision/long range shooting is not my primary focus with firearms. I like shooting tight groups when I can, and believe in being a well rounded shooter, so I have some basic stuff, and will try to get into a vaportrail class with another buddy of mine, my primary focus has always been carbines and pistols...it's what I use at work and shoot the most.
It's hard to justify over 2K w/o scope on a gun you might not shoot that much.

Bob

 

[djdilliodon]

The stock shape, trigger, magazines, and safety on the 504 are superior to the CZ IMHO, but you usually dont need to buy a Lilja barrel to get the CZ to shoot well.

The stock and trigger on the cz can be changed to almost anyone's liking. The safety I can't argue that one . The mags I never use as I use single shot adapters personally.

 

[justin amateur]

The Reminton 504 has an American style stock.
That slim shape has an adverse effect on accuracy due to recoil flex.
Even after pillaring and bedding the action, stock flex will cause
flyers and cause you to wonder where you're going wrong.
Before blaming the barrel for the strays, prove it.
Fabricate a barrel block and test the barrel and action
outside the stock to determine what's causing the problem.
After proving it wasn't my Lilja barrel that was throwing strays,
I was able to focus my attention on other possible solutions.
An article on old school hunting rifles with the same symptoms
recommended barrel shimming to eliminate stock flex.
Yeah, I know, free floated is the accepted rule, but not always.
I found bedding the barrel channel at the center of gravity
of the action/barrel assembly, prevented stock flex and made
for an extremely accurate rifle with minimal expense.

Also, if you have a Lilja, don't expect mid to low quality ammo
to produce worthwhile results at the target, or to extract properly.
Not enough quality control off the production line to guarantee
that all the brass dimensions will fit a match chamber.
Learned that the hard way and an unfired round will not extract
unless the round is fired. Rifling engages the bullet when chambered.

Reminton 504

 

[Bwana John]

The 77/22 didn't have a stock available that I liked w/o costing a fortune. And your limited on scope mounting options...but mags are flush and plentiful.

and on and on..

Bob

Have you tried the Boyds "Tacticool"? I put one on my VZB 77/22 and really like it, ~$100 delivered.

 

[R Moran]

justin,
My 504, and I believe the one bwana has, have the laminated target style stock, made by Boyds..similiar if not the same as their rimfe hunter stock.

The ammo I had issues with was Eley Tenex, Lapua, and a few other top quality brands..in fact some of the cheaper stuff, like Auto match IIRC, extracted better..it's been a couple years now..this was fired cases.

Like I said, a little researching found that some of the Lilja's had improperly cut extractor grooves that caused some issues. Some factory barrels had issues also, hopefully mine is a simple fix.

My main concern was, if re-profiling the barrel would cause any issues, outside of the Lilja name probably being removed.

Bob

 

[R Moran]

Bwana,
IIRC, when I first started looking, and even had bought my friends 77/22, the tacticool was not available for the 77/22, eitehr way, its' not the style I was looking for. I prefer the rimfire hunter style of the 504T. He had the VQ stock for it for a little while, it was close, but not quite what either of us were looking for. Same for the factory varmint stock.

It's always something..

Bob

 

[justin amateur]

Sorry Moran, easily distracted due to flu medication.
I hate being sick and stuck/quarantined to my side of the house.

Not a machinist, but I follow another forum for answers.
Had this page linked in my research favorites:

barrel profiling affecting accuracy

 

[R Moran]

justin,
No worries, I'd rather take an ass whoppin from Tyson then be sick..

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look.

 

[wfjames22]

The trigger can be set to a VERY-VERY nice pull.

Do you by chance have any pointers or a link to a good article for explaining how to accomplish this? I'd like to try this on both of my 504's.

 

[Bwana John]

Try Rim Fire Central, that is where I found a drawing of the 504 trigger. You may have to ask, it used to be a sticky at the top of the Remington section but I cant find it now.

 

[R Moran]

Thats where my buddy found instructions to adjust the trigger..he really likes the 504 trigger.

In the FWIW category, I emailed Lilja..
He states the weak point of the 504 was/is extraction and thats why they quit making barrels for it.
And, he did not recommend re-profiling the barrel, as accuracy would likely suffer.

I'll email the smith and tell him to forgo the re-profiling and just thread the muzzle.

Bob

 

[Alpine 338]

I bought a new 504-T off of another gun board, and it came with a new hunting style barrel and stock also, but never swapped them out. I put a Murphy Precision rail on it, and had a Leupold Mk4 FFP 3-10 on it befor I traded the scope. I didn't try too many different types of ammo, but from what I remember, Eley (I beleive Rifle Target ...Black Box?), Lapua Center-X, and both Wolf Extra and Target Match worked the best. The only extraction issues I ever had was when I tried using non-match grade ammo.
It's a good shooter, and the only complaint I have is how the bolt handle always comes loose, and how the magazines are kind of cheesy.
I also have a Kimber 82G, and it is the most accurate 22LR I've ever owned, it's almost boring to shoot because it's so accurate.

 

[MLC]

I bought a 504 for a song in 17 HM2, didn't even shoot two boxes of ammo before that barrel came off and I ordered the 22 tube from Lilja.
I bought it when they were first offered and the only drop in other than the 10-77/22 line.
There weren't any beefy tubes available, just the target taper.
It shoots better than me but doesn't extract a fired case reliably, every.
This isn't using Golden Bullets, I'm talking Eley, Lapua, SK/(wolf).
I almost tried grease made with viagra to get the extractors stiffer.

I agree with Justin about the stock and I bedded the factory stock with pillars and also picked up a stock just like the VLS stock from Numrich or Brownells for under 50 bucks.

After fighting with the set screw one too many times I epoxied the bolt handle.
I've been using mine as single shot for years and finally sent the barrel back to Lilja to correct the extractor cuts.

I was also tempted to have mine cut to 16.5" and Lilja said I'd probably lose accuracy due to the lap they use in finishing the tubes.



I added this photo to show my taper and the red "extractor" on the gun case.

 

[Bwana John]

More 504 info

While my 504/Lilja rifle has never had the extraction problem, using everything from the best match ammo to Fed 525 Jumbo pac, I did break a firing pin.

I was able to replace it very easily from a non-Remington parts suppler.

I also read about other people having problems with 504 FP breaking on the internet.

 

[hatidua]

I bought a 504-T and really wanted to like it. However, I just could not cope with the persistent extraction issues. I suppose I could have thrown money at it in an attempt to remedy that problem but it wasn't anything to write about in terms of accuracy either so it found a new home.