Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Guys i have a small problem,
I have a Rem 700 in 308, i installed a AICS on it. The problem is that it shoots worst than my original stock. I installed as per instruction from AI. Even messed with the torque setting a little. It is getting bedded at this time but i didnt think it needed to be. Anyone else had this problem?

 

[Sgt.Henry]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

what recoil lug is on your 700? is it stock remington?

 

[farrier]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

I have a similar rig and what you're saying doesn't seem possible. The AICS is extremely rigid, so barring manufacturing defects, it should eliminate more variables, not create new ones. Let us know what your full rig consists of, how well or poorly it was shooting before switching stocks, and what other variables were involved in the stock change, ie. optics mounting. new/diff. trigger,etc. Another possibility is the human. People seem to either love the AICS because it really fits them, or hate it because it doesn't fit at all. You could have someone else shoot the rifle to see if that is the problem. That said, if a change has been has been made to a machine and it begins to fail, look to that change first.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl. Jarreau</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys i have a small problem,
I have a Rem 700 in 308, i installed a AICS on it. The problem is that it shoots worst than my original stock. I installed as per instruction from AI. Even messed with the torque setting a little. It is getting bedded at this time but i didnt think it needed to be. Anyone else had this problem? </div></div>

what was your original stock setup? how does it shoot now, ie. what is worse? were ANY other changes made to the rifle other than swapping stocks? was the trigger touching the chassis anywhere? are you positive the rifle shoots worse with the aics and you don't shoot worse with an aics?

without actually looking at it, my hunch is something else is going on.

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

The gun is a rem 700 R5 308. I have a badger Base and rings. The recoil lug is the same that came with the gun. All i did was change the stocks. Same ammo, i even put it back on the orginal stock and it shoot better. THe difference is at 500 yards i was getting 1 3/4" groups with the orginal stock. I change the stocks and starting getting 4" groups. I even put the gun in a vise to take the human error out of it and it didnt change. I changed stocks cause i like the feel of the thumbhole stock. I checked everywhere and it all seemed good. Now i did notice that only 1/2" of the action was actually touching the aics stock in the front and in the back only the corners was touching. Was the reason i am having it bedded.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl. Jarreau</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The gun is a rem 700 R5 308. I have a badger Base and rings. The recoil lug is the same that came with the gun. All i did was change the stocks. Same ammo, i even put it back on the orginal stock and it shoot better. THe difference is at 500 yards i was getting 1 3/4" groups with the orginal stock. I change the stocks and starting getting 4" groups. I even put the gun in a vise to take the human error out of it and it didnt change. I changed stocks cause i like the feel of the thumbhole stock. I checked everywhere and it all seemed good. Now i did notice that only 1/2" of the action was actually touching the aics stock in the front and in the back only the corners was touching. Was the reason i am having it bedded. </div></div>

If I had a factory rifle that consistently shot 1-3/4" groups at 500 yards I wouldn't change a damn thing.

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

your right about that, it was a hard decision but i really like the feel of the aics and i didnt think the rifle would shoot worse.

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Show some pictures of the AICS without the rifle in it and with the rifle in it from different side and top angles. My groups got better when I switched to an AICS so this needs to be fixed. Mine dropped right in and fits snug but I do remember reading that the proper way to install into an AICS was to tighten down the back first. Pics are needed though. Don't bed it before you cross off every other possible solution first.

Also take a look at the recoil lug and the area where it drops into. Is there any contact with the lug at the lip of the cut out. If there is the lug might not be fully dropping in.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ultraman550</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Show some pictures of the AICS without the rifle in it and with the rifle in it from different side and top angles. My groups got better when I switched to an AICS so this needs to be fixed. Mine dropped right in and fits snug but I do remember reading that the proper way to install into an AICS was to tighten down the back first. Pics are needed though. Don't bed it before you cross off every other possible solution first.

Also take a look at the recoil lug and the area where it drops into. Is there any contact with the lug at the lip of the cut out. If there is the lug might not be fully dropping in. </div></div>

NEVER tighten the rear screw first in a vee block chassis. Start the front screw, start the rear screw, stand rifle vertical with the weight on the butt pad, snug front screw, snug rear screw, torque front screw then torque the rear screw.

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

I stand corrected

 

[REL1203]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

My used AICS 1.5 is due to arrive today, but I can not find install instructions anywhere, does anyone know where I can find them, or are 300Snipers directions really all that is needed? I guess i need to find something that measures Inch Pounds now

 

[dddoo7]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Here is a picture of the instructions. I think you will be able to read them. I could not find them on the AI website. And you will need a in/lb torque wrench. (make sure it is not ft/lb).

 

[REL1203]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Awesome... Thanks... Any recommendation on a cheap Inch-Pound Torque wrench by chance?

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Wheeler on Amazon. Better shipping prices but I'm a "Prime" member so I get free 2 day or $3.99 1 day which means my opinion is skewed. I still think it might be cheaper than Midway or Brownells.

 

[REL1203]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ultraman550</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wheeler on Amazon. Better shipping prices but I'm a "Prime" member so I get free 2 day or $3.99 1 day which means my opinion is skewed. I still think it might be cheaper than Midway or Brownells. </div></div>

I am a prime member as well, so I might just pick it up, it is on sale at Midway now and I need a few other things so i could go there to combine shipping.. We will see... Thanks for the Wheeler tip, seems perfect and not overly pricey...

 

[dddoo7]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

It is hard to beat seekonk t handle fixed wrenches for quality. They are not cheap, but will last forever and at 65 in-lbs it will also work for the cross bolt on most scope rings.

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

300Sniper, I installed the stock the same way you described. Even tried changing torque values a little with no change. My receiver did not fit snug, I snugged up the bolts a little and still had a lot of play in the receiver. I didn't try torqueing more than the recommended 53 inch pounds. Don't wanta damage anything. I tried everything(i think) but its to late anyway it is in the middle of getting bedded right now. I will let everyone know the outcome. No matter what i am still gonna keep the aics stock on. Its not like i am shoot for competition.
Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[rideHPD]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Since you mention the play in the receiver I wonder if maybe the front action screw is long, and is coming in contact with the bolt when you screw everything down enough. Did the bolt seem harder to close at all? Might be worth checking out.

 

[dddoo7]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

There should not be any play in it whatsoever once it is torqued down.

What trigger are you running? Some triggers require inletting to work properly with the aics. I know jewell is one of those.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

unless the chassis had a major manufacturing defect, i don't see how it is possible for there to be play with a round receiver torqued into a vee block.

this is a factory remington action, recoil lug and trigger and a new/unmolested aics?

 

[dddoo7]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

could it be a long action/short action issue? Like said above, something more than just bedding is wrong with this picture. bedding may fix it, but for what you paid for the stock, it should not have to be fixed like that.

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

there is no play once it is torque down. I was referring to another post of how snug it is when just sitting on the stock.
The bolt has no drag. It feels the same on the original stock.I am running the stock trigger. I buddy of mine also has the same setup with the same problem. Maybe it is something we are doing wrong but i dont think so. I took it to 3 different gunsmiths and they all recommened me that bedding it should solve the problem. By the marks on the action, only about 10 -20 % of the action is touching the aics. What do i have to loose. I dont think it would shoot any worse by bedding.

 

[dddoo7]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

I don't know what is happening then. I have not had any problems with my AICS except getting the Jewell trigger to fit. Accuracy was drastically improved over the factory sps stock.

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Have you called AI to ask if they have encountered this before?

 

[300sniper]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

what happened was he had a freak of nature factory rifle that held 1.75" groups at 500 yards and turned it into a pretty good factory rifle that holds 4" groups at 500 yards.

or, my guess is that may have shot a 1.75" group at 500 yards once or twice in factory form out of luck but in reality, it was probably more of a 4" rifle consistently. it is probably still capable of the same thing as it was before the stock swap. bedding it won't change it other than possibly mentally.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

or, my guess is that may have shot a 1.75" group at 500 yards once or twice in factory form out of luck but in reality, it was probably more of a 4" rifle consistently. it is probably still capable of the same thing as it was before the stock swap. bedding it won't change it other than possibly mentally. </div></div>

+1

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

it might have been luck, but the point is the same. When i switched back to the rem stock the groups got tighter. Bedding it might be mentally, i am no gun smith, so when 3 of them tell me they recommend it, so i had it done. As for as a freak of nature factory gun hitting 1 3/4 groups at 500 yards well i guess there is two of them cause my buddy i was shooting with did the same thing with his factory rem 700. I am no sniper but i did learn how to shoot by one when i was in the Marines. So dont talk to me like i am some kind of guy that comes on forums and just throws comments out there.

 

[madppcs]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Guys I shoot with the original poster. We both swapped stocks at the same time. I am the one he is reffering to that is having the same issue. Although I am having issues with mine, my stock never came with instructions when i ordered from mile high. I figured its only 2 frickin bolts. All that needs done is torqued right and that's it? Well I later learned the action needs to be seated all the way to the rear. I haven't shot since the correction was made to my stock cause we both work overseas.
Now I will say that when bobby (OP) says these 2 700s in stock form are shooting well under half Moa he is absolutely telling the truth. His rifle is better at ranges beyond 500 because his is a 5r 24" barrel and mine is a 20" sps. Of course EVERY group is not 1/2 moa, and it was never claimed. But all that's beside the point of this thread.
We are asking for assistance with an issue that other shooters might have had and/or can lend relevant help. Not critiques on whether YoU would decide to go with a different stock.

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

well the verdict is in. After the bedding job my gun starting shoot like it was before the swap. I was sure glad it did.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cpl. Jarreau</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well the verdict is in. After the bedding job my gun starting shoot like it was before the swap. I was sure glad it did.
</div></div>

Good to hear it. Post some pics of the bedding job...

 

[DubGunner]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Glad you got it sorted.

 

[REL1203]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

I'd really like to see pics as well since I have 2 rifles in AICS 1.5 as well.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

i'd really like to see a bunch of 1.75" groups shot at 500 yards to show it's a 1.75"/500 yard factory 5r.

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

300sniper, you know no matter what i post you wont believe me so why bother with it. I didn't make this post to prove anything to anybody, I just had a problem with my rifle and was hoping if someone else had the same problem could help me out.
The problem has been solved, the rifle is shooting the same as it was before the stock swap. Now if you are not being sarcastic i apologize, and when i get back home from work i will show everyone.

 

[jackinfl]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Cpl. Jarreau,
I know you already had it bedded. But did you call AI and run this past them? I'd be really interested in there answer/response if any.

I too run an AICS. I bought it for the feel of the stock first of all and for the fact that bedding was not needed.

To me you just spent more $ on something that isn't supposed to need it.

I'm just curious what AI said...

Jack

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

No, i didnt call AI, I guess i should have before getting it bedded.
I bought the AICS that same reason as you, i like the feel and the idea of a mag. The bedding job was only 75.00. So i guess at worse case i am only out 75.00. THe rifle is shooting great. This still would not stop me from getting another one. I still dont know if it was me doing something wrong or not. But its good now.
I just found it funny that with the V block only a very small portion of the receiver was touching the block.

 

[geometro]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

A cylinder in a V-block should only have 2 lines of contact...at the tangent points.

It was a peculiar sounding issue because mechanically, the AICS system is about as solid as it gets.

While it would have been nice to figure out the root cause of the issue, glad the OP's issues have been resolved.

 

[jackinfl]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Cpl.
Thanks for answering. Glad it's shooting well for you.
Jack

 

[Jackalope33B]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

You prob have $3k in that rifle and you want a cheap Torque wrench lol? Get a Borka, and be done with it. For around $90, you wont be sorry!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: REL1203</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Awesome... Thanks... Any recommendation on a cheap Inch-Pound Torque wrench by chance? </div></div>

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

Outside of just bedding the action, did the gunsmith provide any feedback on the ultimate issue? That kind of accuracy change would imply a gross issue. Did the smith modify stock and/or bed at the recoil lug face? I'd ask to know, I'm curious to learn from your issue.

It's not unheard of to have the rcvr out of true at the two mounting points, especially relative to the rear tang.

In the future, pull the skins off. The recoil lug cut in the AICS stock is all the way through (side-side). Perhaps a better initial visual of what is going on.

 

[Cpl. Jarreau]

Re: Rem 700 308 with AICS trouble

yes he did also bed the recoil lug. One thing i did notice and didnt mention was that the holes in the AICS did not line up perfectly with the rem action holes. The two bolts were screwing in at an angle. As i was pushing the rec towards the rear i had to put a lot of force to get the holes lined up enough to screw them down.
The torque wrench i am using is a craftsman. It was on sale for 30 bucks.