Rem 700 Action Options

[Cardboard Assassin]

I've been thinking about a build for a while and when a smoking deal on a MDT ACC chassis presented itself in the Black Friday sale I started the ball rolling.

I already posted regarding what caliber would best fit my needs (looks like 6BR would be a good bet) and now I'm needing an action.

The criteria is Rem 700 footprint, SA, RH and I like to buy quality with a view to long term ownership. To be clear I have never had any contact with a quality action (my experience to date is a Ruger Precision and a CZ 457 so not in the same league) like the brands I have been looking at so thats why I'm reaching out to those that do.

I`m open to suggestion on brands (please bear in mind I`m in Canada so hopefully something that is available here). From what I can tell Defiance and Impact seem to be highly regarded but what others should I be considering?

One of the first questions I have is regarding bolt throw and lugs. From the reading Ive done it seems that there are generally 2 options (please correct me if this is inaccurate):

1) 90 degree bolt throw which has 2 lugs. This means a longer bolt throw but lighter bolt lift. It also seems that 2 lug designs feed ammo better (I'm basing that on the fact that MDT states the following regarding their 6mm mags "Additionally, through testing, we have found that these magazines do not work out of the box with three lug actions" - I plan to run MDT mags)

2) 60 degree bolt throw which has 3 lugs. This means a shorter bolt throw (my 457 is a 60 degree bolt throw) but I have read that this means the throw is heavier than the 90 degree equivalent and the 3 lug design can be problematic for ammo feeding (particularly 6mms).

Many manufacturers dont make it clear what their bolt throws are or how many lugs the bolt has but I can dig deeper once I know which I want.

In the future I might swap barrels and venture onto other calibers and I believe any of the Rem 700 SA actions I'm considering can accommodate all of these (6.5CM, 22CM, 6BR, 6CM) - is this accurate?

I see some manufacturers advertise that they have a recoil lug while other state that they do not. Some advertise it as a selling feature while others speak negatively about them (I quote "Don't settle for pinned rails or recoil lugs"). What is a recoil lug and why would I want or not want one?

I have also read that with a Remington 700 action new barrels need to be fitted by a gunsmith (I'm guessing they need to machine the barrel for correct fitment / headspace) but it is possible to buy some actions that are setup for "Remage" fitments, ie Remington 700 actions but with Savage style barrel fitments (again my knowledge is limited but it makes barrel changes easy and possible for the average Joe to do barrel swaps at home with a few tools as you simply screw the barrel on to the correct spot and as verified with "Go" & "No Go" gauges and then secure it in place with a locknut). Obviously this would make barrel swaps easier but would it limit my choice of actions which can accommodate this and is accuracy as good with Remages as it is with regular Rem 700 type barrel fitments?

I also picked up a Trigger Tech 2 stage in the Black Friday sale and I chose the "Rem 700 Clone - no safety" as I figured this must be a clone (ie not a genuine Rem 700). Did I chose the correct version for an aftermarket type action like the type I mentioned above? And if so how does the safety work on a clone if its not built into the trigger?

Thanks in advance!

 

[b6graham]

first i'd be looking at what is available easily in canada right now then narrow it down

90 degree/ 2 lug
zermatt
lone peak
impact
ARC
defiance

60 degree/3 lug
terminus
ultimatum
ARC

now look at which are controlled round feed and mechanical eject
Zermatt
ARC

all the actions will accommodate those calibers. zermatt and ARC run changable boltheads so you could run 223 or magnum family cartridges easily and cheaper.

all of these actions run shouldered prefits. barrel vise torque and go.

you HAVE to run a recoil lug. some actions have them machined in, and some ae pinned on (Zermatt TL3 is machined, Origin is pinned). same goes for the scope rail. some are machined in at 20moa, where zermatt has a pinned and screwed in rail which allows end user to change the inclination for their own uses

trigger is a good choice

 

[Chickentoast]

Are there any 700 footprint medium length options? With all the long projectiles and short mag cases, an action and magazine around 3.25" (even 3.1") would be nice.

 

[Gil P.]

Most custom actions can take prefit barrels, make sure the one you choose can.

If you don't plan on using a rail that's not 20 moa, get one with a machined in rail and recoil lug. It won't make a difference in your groups, but it's one less thing to worry about. Go to a match and ask to cycle some of the custom action that are there.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

first i'd be looking at what is available easily in canada right now then narrow it down

90 degree/ 2 lug
zermatt
lone peak
impact
ARC
defiance

60 degree/3 lug
terminus
ultimatum
ARC

now look at which are controlled round feed and mechanical eject
Zermatt
ARC

all the actions will accommodate those calibers. zermatt and ARC run changable boltheads so you could run 223 or magnum family cartridges easily and cheaper.

all of these actions run shouldered prefits. barrel vise torque and go.

you HAVE to run a recoil lug. some actions have them machined in, and some ae pinned on (Zermatt TL3 is machined, Origin is pinned). same goes for the scope rail. some are machined in at 20moa, where zermatt has a pinned and screwed in rail which allows end user to change the inclination for their own uses

trigger is a good choice

Thanks for the info! There are a few options there I hadn't even heard of.

I have been able to find most of the actions I was considering here in Canada and if there was one I really wanted and it wasn't available I believe I could import it (there are a couple of companies that specialize in this and I have used them before - no muss no fuss was my experience).

I`d never heard of controlled round feed and mechanical eject but Ive just looked it up - I now understand how controlled round feed works but is mechanical eject part of the CRF bolt as it doesn't use a standard M16 style extractor?

Yep, I'm pretty excited about the trigger! 2 stage is my preference for precision guns.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Are there any 700 footprint medium length options? With all the long projectiles and short mag cases, an action and magazine around 3.25" (even 3.1") would be nice.

I wondered the same. I looked at a Defiance XM which was classed as an intermediate action but it didn't seem to cover the calibers I was thinking of (was geared towards bigger calibers).

I`m not sure if it uses a LA magazine or SA magazine but if its SA then that would be the limiting factor for length anyways I guess.

 

[DIBBS]

If at all possible, get behind the actions you are considering prior to purchasing. Here in the USA you could go to a shoot/competition and folks are more than willing to let you get behind their rifles and send a few downrange. Not sure about restrictions in Canada. Good Luck.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Most custom actions can take prefit barrels, make sure the one you choose can.

If you don't plan on using a rail that's not 20 moa, get one with a machined in rail and recoil lug. It won't make a difference in your groups, but it's one less thing to worry about. Go to a match and ask to cycle some of the custom action that are there.

Prefits would be great as I am a DIY kind of guy but if it needs to go to a gunsmith thats fine too.

I know some manufacturers that sell actions also sell barrels but is it possible to buy prefits that are ready to install from other companies too (ie can I buy an action from company X and then get a prefit from barrel manufacturer in company Y?).

I imagine this comes down to the barrel company knowing what specs to make the prefit too for each action manufacturer (and the action machining being pretty much identical from action to action).

 

[kyzim311]

I wondered the same. I looked at a Defiance XM which was classed as an intermediate action but it didn't seem to cover the calibers I was thinking of (was geared towards bigger calibers).

I`m not sure if it uses a LA magazine or SA magazine but if its SA then that would be the limiting factor for length anyways I guess.

That action has an internal mag made specifically for that action from defiance.no need for the rounds you are looking at, but it is not setup for mags.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

If at all possible, get behind the actions you are considering prior to purchasing. Here in the USA you could go to a shoot/competition and folks are more than willing to let you get behind their rifles and send a few downrange. Not sure about restrictions in Canada. Good Luck.

Yeah, that would be great but the competitions are minimum 3 hours drive (and with Covid restrictions and the off season there may not even be any for a while) and the retailers are even further it seems.

I will do some more digging because I know this would help immensely.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

It seems you answered your own question about two lugs or three. In which case, it’s a matter of the other things you want. The diameter of the bolt face will largely decide which cartridge you can shoot. .223 is a smaller bolt face than .308/6.5Cm/6br for example. Some manufacturers will sell you different bolts if you want to switch, others will sell you a different bolt head, which you switch on and off the front end of the bolt. That tends to be a little cheaper. As long as the action is long enough to support the cartridge, the action body itself is not the limiting factor in terms of cartridge choice. It’s the bolt.

As for recoil lug, a Remington action uses a recoil lug that is a separate part that gets sandwiched between the action and barrel. It’s the vertical “foot” that sticks down into the chassis/stock from the front of the action. It’s not a choice. There will be a recoil lug. Fancy custom actions tend to have the recoil lug machined on as a part of the action or use pins to hold the lug in place. If you are going to be switching barrels around, I would highly recommend a machine lug...or at least a pinned option.

The rail, on some actions, is also machined on. Which is fine if you never want to switch. A screwed on rail can be just as good. No real argument either way, imho. You can always buy a canted mount if you decide you just have to have more “MOA” in your system.

Regarding barrels and gunsmithing. Barrels are either designed so they torque down against the action and the headspace is fixed by the shoulder of the barrel contacting the recoil lug/action face (a shouldered barrel) or they use a barrel nut (remage, et. al) which allows you to set the headspace with the barrel threads then lock the nut to hold everything. I’d rather deal with a shouldered barrel, personally, but you can get good accuracy out of either. A factory Remington action will usually have sloppy enough machining that your gunsmith will need to see it, at least once, to make shouldered barrels for it. A lot of custom actions will be exact enough that you can buy “shouldered prefit” barrels that just screw on.

If your trigger is a “no safety” option then you won’t have a safety. If you want a safety, you’ll need a different trigger.

Actions: you will find advocates for every kind of action from Mauser to Mausingfield. At the top tier, you probably can’t go wrong.

Impact
Surgeon
Defiance
Zermatt

Availability in your area, which MDT recommends in their chassis, how it feeds/ejects, bolt or bolt head interchangeability, price, feedback from other users, rail choices, it’s all up to you.

Congrats on the MDT Black Friday success. Despite their website drama, there’s some good customer service there.

Excellent info.

Yes, I think you are right, the 60 degree bolt throw would be shorter / nicer than the 90 but not at the expense of heavier bolt lift (one of the downsides I keep reading about) and possible feeding issues with the 6mm cartridges I am considering.

I'm thinking of going machined rail and recoil lug. I'm mostly seeing 20MOA built into the rails which should be lots for the cartridges I want to shoot and the distances I will generally be shooting at (up to 1000 yards). If I need more I can get a mount with additional MOA built in (which is what I am currently using on my RPR).

I know brands are a contentious issue as everyone has their favourites for their own personal reasons but I keep seeing the same names crop up over and over so that is where my research will focus. I'm sure any of them will be a massive step forward for me after factory rifles but as I tend to keep things a long time I want the one that best fits my needs.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Ive had a look around and it seems ARC actions aren't offered in Canada but Defiance, Zermatt and Impact are.

Of those only Zermatt has the controlled round feed. Are there any downsides to controlled round feeding? Does it pick up rounds off the magazine as consistently / reliably as a regular push feed setup? Or is it fussier owing to the fact that the rim of the cartridge needs to slide / lock in to the bolt as it slides forward?

 

[spife7980]

CRF these days when untimed to not have the rim fall under the extractor perfectly is still no more fussy than a push feed is.

 

[Gil P.]

Prefits would be great as I am a DIY kind of guy but if it needs to go to a gunsmith thats fine too.

I know some manufacturers that sell actions also sell barrels but is it possible to buy prefits that are ready to install from other companies too (ie can I buy an action from company X and then get a prefit from barrel manufacturer in company Y?).

I imagine this comes down to the barrel company knowing what specs to make the prefit too for each action manufacturer (and the action machining being pretty much identical from action to action).

Is it difficult to get barrels from the US? You could get a gunsmith in your country do prefit barrels for you as well.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Is it difficult to get barrels from the US? You could get a gunsmith in your country do prefit barrels for you as well.

Pretty sure it is possible, I know one guy locally that pretty much specializes in bringing in various brands of barrels from the US.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

CRF these days when untimed to not have the rim fall under the extractor perfectly is still no more fussy than a push feed is.

Just so I'm clear, what happens if the extractor on a CRF doesn't pick up the rim of the cartridge on the way out of the magazine as intended?

Will it still push the round into the chamber and allow the extractor to snap into place over the rim the same way that a push feed does normally?

Or will it not allow the bolt to close due to the not being able to get the extractor over the rim of the case that it missed?

 

[spife7980]

Just so I'm clear, what happens if the extractor on a CRF doesn't pick up the rim of the cartridge on the way out of the magazine as intended?

Will it still push the round into the chamber and allow the extractor to snap into place over the rim the same way that a push feed does normally?

Or will it not allow the bolt to close due to the not being able to get the extractor over the rim of the case that it missed?

Some old Winchester 70s etc with their big claw extractor wouldn’t snap over the rim. That was a problem.

Something like a bighorn or an arc has no issue with it and will snap over the rim just like a push feed will.
Defiance will (or at least used to) make a controlled round too, I assume it would be fine with snapping over a rim.