Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. I shot my new Rem 700 chambered in 260 today for the first time. Upon firing, the bolt will not open. The handle will move up and down, but the bolt will not move to the rear. It occurred with all loads ranging from 41 to 43.5 grs of H4350. The gunsmith used a tactical reamer designed for the 139 scenar. All loads were loaded to 2.805" using 139 scenars and 2x fired Lapua brass (f/L) sized. All rounds chambered fine before firing. Primers did not show any unusual signs. A distinct ring about a 1/4" below the case shoulder was obvious around the brass. Accuracy was excellent. I used a rod from the muzzle to hammer each fired round. I have never had this problem from any of my other 260 rifles. Do I change brass, call the gunsmith, or try some factory ammo? I'm confused. Thanks!
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Gunsmithing Rem 700-Bolt will not open after firing! I'm confused!
- Thread starter tnrednk74
- Start date
"rounds chambered fine" FIRST +the "distinct ring" AFTER make me even think about an imminent case rupture,due to something faulty about headspage settings, but only you can know if/how the cases have been properly headspaced/resized (even more crucial if they are coming from other chambers/rifles), and if the case heads are bearing some sign of bad stopping against the bolt face_
some extracted case diameter measurementent will be helpful, better if w. detailed pictures of them,to obtain better answers from the next readers_
some extracted case diameter measurementent will be helpful, better if w. detailed pictures of them,to obtain better answers from the next readers_
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Was the ring a stretch mark? Real shiney? Were there drag lines above the ring? Without scoping the bore it is hard to say, but assuming it is a virgin ream, the shell should come out if they chamber easy and there are no over-pressure signs. Unless the extractor is failing, unlikely, as you had to hammer them so the chamber is off. Curious if you tried pulling back on the bolt while lifting? Not that it would be acceptable. Call the smith but post a picture anyway, thanks.
Thanks! Measurements and pics are a good idea. I will work on that as soon as possible. I may need to re-evaluate my loading techniques!
Wilecoyote is thinking like me in that the ring is stretch prior to failure unless you are hitting it so hard because the neck is jammed on some chatter you are stretching the case, unlikely. Rotating the bolt and pulling, if you have a little slop, might unscrew from a chatter and release the shell, but mic'ing the case would tell more, but less than just scoping it.
The ring was shiny and thin (toothpick diameter) with no drag lines or stretch marks, slight indention.
Sounds like there might be an absence of primary extraction, along with possibly a chamber or load issue.
These were the first rounds on a freshly chambered Rock Creek barrel. The build was put together by a competent smith that was highly recommended on this site.
A couple of things come to mind. Brass was shot in another rifle twice. FL sizing will get it back in the rifle but may not get it out. Sizing dies don't really size the whole case all the way to the shell holder. This involves two different reamers. Different chamber dimensions. My educated guess is your new barrel has a tighter chamber on the breech end. May be too tight. Ask your smith what that dimension is on his reamer. You need a minimum of .003" clearance between the chamber and the brass and that's when you have perfectly matched sizing dies made. Sizing gets it back in but then the brass goes back to it's fired size in your other barrel. As has been suggested new brass or factory ammo is the only way to sort this out.
Thanks Dave! Brass has been fired twice in a different rifle, which may be the problem. Different chamber dimensions makes perfect sense. I think a tight chamber on one end, along with brass issues, could be the source of my problems. I will call the smith today and get dimensions! Thank you all for much helpful insight! Pictures attached of rings around brass!
While unsightly that wouldn't cause your problem. Question what kind of ammo box do you use? I get rings like that from rounds bouncing around an MTM ammo box. See if that ring lines up with something.
The rings on the brass were not there before I chambered and fired them! It felt as if the ring marks were the sticking point in the chamber! I'm guessing though! Thanks again!
I'm with Mr.Tooley:
(sometime I've had marks, like yours in the picture, caused by my first set of entry-level dies, without any other issue_)
A test w. few quality new brass only, or quality factory ammo, could be my next try, if I would be in your shoes_
Chatter mark in the chamber is my diagnosis. Probably a chip caught in the reamer. Probably needs to have the barrel set back a thread or two and re-chambered.
Rough spot in chamber or chatter marks makes sense to me. Seems like a logical cause! Everyone has been very informative. I have learned a wealth of info from this thread! Thanks again! I will also try new brass and ammo!
Get the smith to chamber a small piece of barrel stub, doesn't have to be full depth, mainly as deep as the shoulder plus a half inch or so. Mic an unfired piece of your loaded brass, then a fired one, that will tell you a lot about what your brass is doing in the chamber. A bit of micrometer work around the base, just up from the rim, will also tell you about what is going on there.
On my really accurate rifles ( ie BR guns ) I don't even shoot them until I have made the chamber gauge ( the gizzy ). During load development, helps a lot with setting shoulder bump to absolute minimums. Using same reamer is best, rather than buying the Wilson gauge.
On my really accurate rifles ( ie BR guns ) I don't even shoot them until I have made the chamber gauge ( the gizzy ). During load development, helps a lot with setting shoulder bump to absolute minimums. Using same reamer is best, rather than buying the Wilson gauge.
Those rings are rub marks caused by your ammo carrier. I get them all the time from driving to the range with ammo in my mtm case guard rubbing around.
I have seen this, and it may be a groove in the chamber. Take a feeler (a bent paper clip or dental pick) and run it along the inside of the chamber. If you feel a groove, it will allow the brass to expand into the groove, effectively locking the fired case in the chamber.
edit: sorry, I did not read the posts by formernavalperson and others, essentially saying the same thing.
edit: sorry, I did not read the posts by formernavalperson and others, essentially saying the same thing.
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This is what my smith does for me, I wish I could get them for factory chambers too. I also use it to measure shoulder bump when reloading, it also helps find seating depth.
To me it sounds like he needs a small base die to "reclaim" this brass for use in the new chamber.
Minimal primary extraction exacerbates the issue.
I don't think the mark on the brass is root cause.
I suspect fresh brass will correct the issue...for a while...but they'll start to extract difficultly after a few firings.
I think a small base die is in order. Don't know if anybody makes a 260 SB die, but it doesn't matter; a 308 SB die will do the trick.
Minimal primary extraction exacerbates the issue.
I don't think the mark on the brass is root cause.
I suspect fresh brass will correct the issue...for a while...but they'll start to extract difficultly after a few firings.
I think a small base die is in order. Don't know if anybody makes a 260 SB die, but it doesn't matter; a 308 SB die will do the trick.
RCBS .260 Rem SB T/C Die Set FREE S&H 12807. RCBS Reloading Dies and Die Accessories.
Indeed they do. Save you a little searching.
Indeed they do. Save you a little searching.
74 - You need some factory ammo. 260 is tough to get cheap. Bite the $30 bullet and get a box of factory anything (if you can find it!).
Brass is cheap compared to reloading problems. Try to keep all brass in one gun (unless you're blasting with your FAL).
Primary extraction as pointed out earlier, may be an issue. With the bolt closed how much space is there between the front of the bolt handle and the back of the action. Whip out your feeler gauges and get a measurement to 0.001". Now lift the bolt open all the way but hold it forward. The bolt handle should hit the 45 degree angle at the back of the action and be forced backward some. Stuff the feeler gauges in there again. The difference is how much primary extraction you have.
I don't have the specs in front of me. Someone will probably chime in here with them. Keep in mind that you loose 0.002-5" just taking up the slack in the extractor that is rattling around in the bolt nose. If your action was trued and they didn't remount the bolt handle you lost a little if they cut the lug faces in the action and some more if the back of the bolt lugs were faced. It's not the end of the world but if you've got chamber issues as well this system will quickly be overloaded.
Take my advice for what you paid for it. Keep us posted.
Brass is cheap compared to reloading problems. Try to keep all brass in one gun (unless you're blasting with your FAL).
Primary extraction as pointed out earlier, may be an issue. With the bolt closed how much space is there between the front of the bolt handle and the back of the action. Whip out your feeler gauges and get a measurement to 0.001". Now lift the bolt open all the way but hold it forward. The bolt handle should hit the 45 degree angle at the back of the action and be forced backward some. Stuff the feeler gauges in there again. The difference is how much primary extraction you have.
I don't have the specs in front of me. Someone will probably chime in here with them. Keep in mind that you loose 0.002-5" just taking up the slack in the extractor that is rattling around in the bolt nose. If your action was trued and they didn't remount the bolt handle you lost a little if they cut the lug faces in the action and some more if the back of the bolt lugs were faced. It's not the end of the world but if you've got chamber issues as well this system will quickly be overloaded.
Take my advice for what you paid for it. Keep us posted.
Thanks! I will definitely try the small base die. I'm going to order one tonight! That may solve my problem. I never thought of that! Thanks again!
Thanks dinc! That's a smart observation, however, that's probably above my mechanical abilities. I may give a shot though, I may learn something! I will definitely give an update after this weekend! Your right, what I paid for this build, I want everything right!
I've had a chip in the reamer cause a ring before, but the "ring" will be a raised ridge on the brass. Chatter may leave an indented ring like that looks.
This sounds to me like there is no (or not enough) primary extraction. The ring you're seeing is potentially a different issue. If the case is stuck in the chamber then you should be able to tear a chunk out of the rim trying to extract it. The rear part of the receiver has a little ramp that mates with the root of the bolt handle. This gives you leverage to start the case out of the barrel. If there is a big gap between these two parts (like on many newer rem bolts I've seen), then they are not doing their job. Make sense? I can post pictures if not...
Makes perfect sense mcfred. Thanks! However this weekend while shooting the new 260, new Nosler 260 brass fired perfectly. No problems with accuracy or extraction. New Remington 260 brass did not fair so well. Every case was stuck after firing. Nosler brass was measured .002 smaller at the point of contact before firing. The smith told me to send it back and he would take care of the problem. I may just send the rifle back!
Primary extraction starts before the the angled part of the bolt handle and receiver make contact.
Hey Redneck-if the smith says he'll check it out, that's a much better option than chasing peanut gallery (myself included, so noone takes offense) advice.
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