Gunsmithing Rem 700 extractor type

[zenbiker]

Getting ready to order a 1 piece bolt from PTG; three extractor choices: Sako, "mini ar15", or AR . For a 300 Win Mag; always used Sako before, tempted to try the AR. Opinions? Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[scotharr]

For a 308 bolt face, I'd go with a remington extractor first, a mini-m16 second, and never a sako.

 

[supercorndogs]

i think you will have to have you barrel removed and some machining done for the m 16 extractors in the 300wm. there is not enough room for the extractor to pop over the rim of the brass. this is what i have read anyway. but i guess buying a new bolt you would have to have the barrel re-headspaced to the new bolt any way, wright. after reading it i came to the conclusion that i would try another remington extractor. if that does not work for long, i may try the sako style. but there are draw backs to it as well. my pros for it the rifle does not have to be disassembled, and i keep my bolt and do not change a great shooting gun. i have read about a lot of other people having problems with the magnum extractors. there is a badger ordnance extractor.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

It's going to be a new barrel and I personally don't have a problem with either the Sako or the M-16 style. When pressures get high enough to rupture the case head and you're looking into the loading port you're screwed. If your head is opposite the port, in all likelihood you'll just have a wrecked rifle and a story to tell.

 

[RTH1800]

Remington is by far the best extractor for the Rem action. It is safer and more reliable. I would not consider any other.

 

[Militarybuilt]

The Remington extractor is garbage, it enjoys flipping the case around in the chamber. Go with the M16 style from badger and don't look back. Sako is bad juju, it messes up the whole three layers of metal thing and if you have a head separation you will have parts coming back at you.

 

[Rprecision]

Getting ready to order a 1 piece bolt from PTG; three extractor choices: Sako, "mini ar15", or AR . For a 300 Win Mag; always used Sako before, tempted to try the AR. Opinions? Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I have a PTG and went with the M16 style for my .300 wm. I unfortunately dont have a lot of time behind the gun to comment on it 100%. I did have some extraction problems early on that was leaving a spent partially in the loading port. The geometry PTG uses throws the empties more upward then factory, or it appears that way. I have since determined the cases were hitting the windage turret thus causing the issue. The reason I bring this up, as it requires taller rings, so something to plan for

Remington is by far the best extractor for the Rem action. It is safer and more reliable. I would not consider any other.

I don't consider absolutes. On a factory .308 your statement has merit, big magnums, yeah not so much

 

[Straight Shooter]

The Remington is tunable to get the function working very well. Both the M-16 and the Sako require the bolt relief in the barrel opened up. They both provide a gas escape directed into your face if something leaks. And then as just mentioned they both timed wrong and are prone to slipping cases before they clear the port. If you are determined to do it the M-16 is the lessor of the two evils.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Love the opinions here. Lots of good and bad to say about all. I beg to disagree with the Sako naysayers. It does create a chink in the armor like Militarybuilt says but if you reach that point, you shoulda stayed in bed that day ;-)

I've never had a problem making them work with a factory dia. bolt nose recess.

On the other hand, mini 15/16's don't play well. NTM Kiff seems to be juggling a few too many balls in his act. Seems to be having issues with what extractor goes with which bolt. Note other threads.

 

[zenbiker]

Love the opinions here. Lots of good and bad to say about all. I beg to disagree with the Sako naysayers. It does create a chink in the armor like Militarybuilt says but if you reach that point, you shoulda stayed in bed that day ;-)

I've never had a problem making them work with a factory dia. bolt nose recess.

On the other hand, mini 15/16's don't play well. NTM Kiff seems to be juggling a few too many balls in his act. Seems to be having issues with what extractor goes with which bolt. Note other threads.

Yeah. My friend Dave can be a real handful sometimes, but he's never given me bad advice. Too bad he doesn't have a snappy screenname like you and I do.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Rprecision]

NTM Kiff seems to be juggling a few too many balls in his act. Seems to be having issues with what extractor goes with which bolt. Note other threads.

Because you have never made a mistake in your life ? Dave Kiff produces a quality product for a fair price all made here in the USA. Add to that he has always answered my questions and supported his product. I don't know if Mr. Kiff is overworked and neither do you. It pisses me off we people bash on a company with with BS comments about a act. WTF is your act ?

 

[Militarybuilt]

The M16 extractor does not require any barrel modification, it does require bolt milling but if you're buying a PTG you have nothing to worry about. The downside is that if you happen to somehow break an extractor you have to order a special one and they run about $30. I ordered an extra one just for safety stock.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Because you have never made a mistake in your life ? Dave Kiff produces a quality product for a fair price all made here in the USA. Add to that he has always answered my questions and supported his product. I don't know if Mr. Kiff is overworked and neither do you. It pisses me off we people bash on a company with with BS comments about a act. WTF is your act ?

Rest assured, I've made more mistakes than the average guy has made attempts! ;-) Fortunately for me, I'm able to fix most of 'em. I am by no means bashing PT&G. Dave is a Great guy. His company and products are fantastic in the grand scheme. With the mentality of youth today it's a wonder he can even keep the doors open. I'm just sayin' it seems the company is suffering from growing pains. I'm sure they will pass with time ;-)

Militarybuilt, That's not been my experience. I've either had to open the recess or take some off the back of the extractor.

 

[Straight Shooter]

Whether the barrel needs modified or not depends on who built the rifle and the bolt nose counter bore they cut in the barrel. I go .010" over actual bolt diameter. That is roughly .705" or less. That doesn't leave room for any external extractor to be jumping over a case rim. If an M16 extractor is being used the proper counter bore is .785" to give it room to go over a case rim. See fig 4.

http://www.badgerordnance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/306-90_91_92_Extractor.pdf

 

[Militarybuilt]

What's factory counterbore? I have one installed on my factory rem 700 and it works fine, you do have to take the ridge off the back of the extractor but we didn't touch the barrel and the extractor works fine. My rifle is a factory rem 700 aac-sd in .308.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

308 is fine as is. It's the std. magnums that need about .040" more clearance because the extractor exceeds the diameter of the bolt as it travels over the rim. .785" is for Lapua cases.

 

[wnroscoe]

Getting ready to order a 1 piece bolt from PTG; three extractor choices: Sako, "mini ar15", or AR . For a 300 Win Mag; always used Sako before, tempted to try the AR. Opinions? Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I'd order the M-16 style and skip all others. The bolt nose recess will have to be opened up to .780"-.790" in order for all to function properly and seems to be the standard diameter required for all/99.9% of receiver manufacturers. Head space will also have to be checked/corrected as the bolt isn't a drop in. The standard 700 extractor is a distant third on your list, the Sako is slightly better but, the M-16 style is superior in every way.

 

[FCrifles]

1st Rem extractor, 2nd M-16 (at least you have a cross-pin), last Sako.

We had a fella at the local club pull the trigger on a case with the wrong powder in it. The Sako extractor let loose came down the raceway luckily not hitting him in the face. We found the Sako extractor lodged in the porta John about 35 yards behind the line. It went through the front door and was stuck in the back wall of the shitter. Glad I took my crap before I left the house that day.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

1st Rem extractor, 2nd M-16 (at least you have a cross-pin), last Sako.

We had a fella at the local club pull the trigger on a case with the wrong powder in it. The Sako extractor let loose came down the raceway luckily not hitting him in the face. We found the Sako extractor lodged in the porta John about 35 yards behind the line. It went through the front door and was stuck in the back wall of the shitter. Glad I took my crap before I left the house that day.

Funny how that works;-) Wonder what would have happened it the nose recess were .78-.79" ?

 

[Turd in the Pool]

A further defense of Sako extractors ;-)

Years ago working at McBride's we had a Sako 25-06 come in that someone fired a 308 in :-0 I know it's not the same scenario as a 700 but interesting just the same. Don't know how the bullet managed to clear the bore but it did. Case head separated, primer nearly covered the head. The extractor came out when I pried the head out of the bolt face but was able to salvage it as well as the spring & plgr. All in all, to my surprise, there was no damage done. ;-)

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Guys when a case ruptures unless it's a Remington extractor it doesn't matter. Even with a Remington extractor you can and will loose some of the bolt nose. Bottom line you had better not be looking into the loading port. You're looking at the ass end of a bomb waiting for you to make a mistake. Here's your M16 style. This guy had to replace one lens in his glasses.

Exhibit A

 

[Turd in the Pool]

Damned! I always thought those Howa's were a little on the hard side ;-)

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

And investment cast is as good as billet. Yea sure and I have a bridge I want to sell.

 

[Turd in the Pool]

I take it Howa's are cast?

 

[E. Bryant]

Here's your M16 style. This guy had to replace one lens in his glasses.

Yeah, wow. I guess the little 3/32" roll pin that retains the M16 extractor doesn't do jack shit if the leaking gas has sufficient energy to wipe out a portion of the bolt.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

A ruptured case means pressure was near or past 100K PSI. Bad shit is just going to happen at that pressure. We calculated the pressure in that round at 110-115K PSI. I have a Remington bolt where 40% of the nose is gone. It swelled the chamber/receiver ring .009" but stayed together otherwise. I've seen many where the nose had expanded to the point of having an interference fit in the counterbore from case head expansion. The Howa couldn't handle the initial shock. Look closely at the points where that action separated.

 

[427Cobra]

Remington is by far the best extractor for the Rem action. It is safer and more reliable. I would not consider any other.

This is the best option, order a spare non riveted one from Brownells, for the last 9 years I have never needed it but if I need it I got it

 

[STR]

I'd order the M-16 style and skip all others. The bolt nose recess will have to be opened up to .780"-.790" in order for all to function properly and seems to be the standard diameter required for all/99.9% of receiver manufacturers. Head space will also have to be checked/corrected as the bolt isn't a drop in. The standard 700 extractor is a distant third on your list, the Sako is slightly better but, the M-16 style is superior in every way.

Here is the simplist, most accurate reply in my opinion. I have dealt with all three mentioned, and the least problematic is the Mini. As for safety sake, well you can all see from the pics above of the action that a Remington extractor wouldn't have helped a bit. yes the mini on a magnum requires some action work, but then agian, PTG specifically says in a note shipped with every bolt that they are NOT DROP IN BOLTS, and that gunsmithing is required.

 

[Killshot44]

I shoot F-Class. Last match I experienced serious overpressure due to a powder-lot change. Took serious muscle to open the bolt and every casehead had expanded into the boltface.
I had to beat the cases out of the bolt.

I have the old riveted Remington extractor and I fully expected it to fail at some point, but I kept firing as I was in the X-ring despite having to break position after every shot and wrench on the gun.

The match ruined the bolt but the extractor never failed. The new one-piece bolt from Kiff I bought has the Remmy extractor. Just my experience.

 

[E. Bryant]

Look closely at the points where that action separated.

I'm no expert in mechanical failure analysis, but I don't like what I see in that picture.

That's the problem with affordable modern rifles that have intricately-shaped non-round actions - manufacturing economics are such that it almost forces the use of casting.

 

[my human host]

I've tried the sako, but I think I'll stick with the Remington units. I'm much more likely to be injured because of a handloading error or bore obstruction than beaten to death by an angry steel plate or chewed on by a pissed off coyote.

A good handle that's properly timed seems to make the Remington unit much more reliable. Pulling straight back for extraction appears to be bad ju ju.