Gunsmithing Rem 700 VSSF-P crown damage

[Coy-killa]

I purchased a used 700 VSSF-P chambered in 22-250 about 4 years ago. It was already equipped with a timney trigger when I got it. I have read over and over again about how well this gun should shoot. The best I can get from it is 3/4 moa from factory loads. It could all still be me at this time holding back its performance. I am working on a hand load but noticed something interesting today after shooting some factory rounds. If I look in through the ports to the crown it looks like there are two very large burrs left from cutting the crown. Imagine a 2 flute cutting tool that was cutting and you stopped and pulled it away. I tried to get a couple pictures and have attached them. I’m reaching out to some much more knowledgeable people to understand what effect this has on the rifles performance. I’ll be reaching out to a local smith in the next couple days but would like to get opinions here first. I’m willing to accept it needs to be scrapped and need a new barrel ??

I attached two pictures. The one looking straight into the break shows the two points of concern at 1:00 and 7:00 with blue arrows. The second is from the left side port looking in to show the depth of the burr.

 

[spife7980]

For others who have no idea what they are looking at I googled it for a wider view

and yep, looks pretty shitty

 

[Coy-killa]

Spife thank you for adding clarity!

 

[GH41]

"2 flute cutting tool" my ass! Looks like someone went at it with a drill bit!! Hard to believe you got 3/4 out of it.

 

[Kickin45]

Shave off the damage and recrown.
and barrel scope it. If the insides look anywhere near that, ya it’s junk

 

[b6graham]

Shave off the damage and recrown.
and barrel scope it. If the insides look anywhere near that, ya it’s junk

not sure you understand where the 'damage' is?

you'd be taking like 4" off of it?

if its shooting 3/4 id just leave it. for the rifle thats not bad

shoot out the barrel then put a real one on problem solved

 

[Kickin45]

I see now, sorry.
That is a conundrum and it would drive me insane.
Id take to my local smith immediately.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

not sure you understand where the 'damage' is?

you'd be taking like 4" off of it?

if its shooting 3/4 id just leave it. for the rifle thats not bad

shoot out the barrel then put a real one on problem solved

SO...that 4" isn't doing jack shit. cut it off, crown and thread and put normal brake on it.

 

[b6graham]

SO...that 4" isn't doing jack shit. cut it off, crown and thread and put normal brake on it.

why spend that money on a shit barrel? its a 22-250 that shoots as should be expected group size

if youre gonna spend $50 or $75 to cut and thread spend $300 on a whole new barrel

 

[TurdFerguson]

Could that damage have been caused by a cheap sectionalized rod being used muzzle to breech? I've seen some damage similar to that on used M1 barrels....

 

[Bradv86]

I'm not a smith but you probably have 3 reasonable options from cheap to more expensive

1. Do nothing. You say it shoots 3/4 with factory ammo and may improve with hand loads.

2. Cut and crown. Thread and add a brake optional. The lost length won't effect velocity as you would only skim cut the muzzle for a new crown. You may or may not get any more accuracy from this option.

3. Rebarrel

The final option is maybe less reasonable. Have a custom tool ground to recrown inside of that brake chamber area. I imagine that barrel is not threaded and was done at the factory in a similar fashion. I suppose there is a chance that a talented smith may be able to achieve the same thing with a very specific sized boring bar but I would think the smith would have to make the call on how it can be done. I would only go this route if you care about keeping this rifle as original as possible.

 

[DukeGSP]

cutting the end off would look funny due to the flutes running to the end of the barrel (IMO). I would see what your smith can or cant do. if you're not happy with the Sub MOA that it is currently producing, rebarrel.

post pics so we can all high five and stuff.

 

[Coy-killa]

Thanks for all of the feedback to everyone. I called a smith yesterday about the situation and sent him the pictures attached here. I am going to take it to him on Sunday. He’s got a bore scope so we can take a good look at the crown and see if it is actually cut correctly. We will also see if the barrel is shot out from the breech end, I’m the second owner and don’t know round count.
I am not hip ok the idea of cutting the barrel off. Like @Dombern34 said it’s going to look stupid with flutes that dont “end” before the end of the barrel. To me it doesnt look like something that could have been damaged by a cleaning rod, more a manufacturing defect. I’m not against a new barrel but I’m no to that point yet.
Does anyone know if a new crown could be cut into a barrel like this?

 

[Easy_E]

I believe you could use a throating reamer to touch up the crown and save the brake ?

 

[ugsly308]

Thats a odd brake, I'd cut off 4" and recrown. I dont think a coyote will stop to think about what your barrel looks like.

Casey

 

[Mordamer]

No one thinks it would be possible to sneak a really long and slender boring bar in there and single point cut the crown?

I'd start by grinding a tool from a piece of carbide. Sneak it in the muzzle at a very slight angle and crown just a small portion outside the bore. The tool wouldn't be very rigid, but with a very light cut I'd think it would do a lot better job than the factory did.

Maybe this would be impossible, but it is the only way I see to even attempt re-crowning without modifying the barrel.

 

[Bradv86]

That's what I mentioned but it would definitely be a call made by the person doing the work.

Easy_E's mention of a throwing reamer may be enough to clean the edge or remove any burr.

I suppose you could bore out the brake end oversized and recrown with a boring bar, followed by internally threading the brake end and making a small cap much like a silencer end cap to retain the look of the barrel and brake function.

 

[Mordamer]

The throating reamer idea is pretty good except it needs to be done with a necking reamer. A throating reamer basically only cuts the lands out of the rifling. A necking reamer could do a nice job of cleaning up the crown for about .015" on either side of the bore.

I serious doubt any of these efforts would make the gun shoot better, but you don't know unless you try.

 

[Easy_E]

The throating reamer idea is pretty good except it needs to be done with a necking reamer. A throating reamer basically only cuts the lands out of the rifling. A necking reamer could do a nice job of cleaning up the crown for about .015" on either side of the bore.

I serious doubt any of these efforts would make the gun shoot better, but you don't know unless you try.

Crap your right I had the two mixed up .

 

[Bradv86]

The throating reamer idea is pretty good except it needs to be done with a necking reamer. A throating reamer basically only cuts the lands out of the rifling. A necking reamer could do a nice job of cleaning up the crown for about .015" on either side of the bore.

I serious doubt any of these efforts would make the gun shoot better, but you don't know unless you try.

I agree. If that ding does not go to the very edge of the muzzle it probably won't change anything. Even if it does, it is a factory barrel shooting .75 with factory ammo so there may not be much to gain after putting the money and work into it.

 

[Soulezoo]

I had the same rifle in .220 swift (without the ports). For those that are thinking "Rem factory barrel, that's all one can expect", think again.

Mine would regularly make a 5 shot one hole group @200 yards.

OP, likely that barrel is fubared, probably not much you can do that's going to improve things at a cost less than a new barrel. I don't think ports over a brake are ever a good idea and that port job is not good at all. And if one needs a port on a .22-250 on what is not a light rifle to begin with, I don't know what to say.

 

[CaptNemo]

Cheapest is to cut the "Brake" off with a hacksaw, clean up the crown and lap the end with a brass screw with some lapping compound in a drill motor.
If it improves, have the barrel re-crowned in a lathe, if there's no improvement, the barrel was FUBAR anyway.
You're out about $ 10.00 and less than 1 hours of time.
Or, you could go straight to a rebarrel and bypass the BS.

 

[Mordamer]

I had the same rifle in .220 swift (without the ports). For those that are thinking "Rem factory barrel, that's all one can expect", think again.

Mine would regularly make a 5 shot one hole group @200 yards.

OP, likely that barrel is fubared, probably not much you can do that's going to improve things at a cost less than a new barrel. I don't think ports over a brake are ever a good idea and that port job is not good at all. And if one needs a port on a .22-250 on what is not a light rifle to begin with, I don't know what to say.

It's a Remington factory barrel and 3/4 MOA is equal to or better than average. Your sample of 1 anecdotal information is meaningless. I can't count the number of times I have heard the "all shots into 1 hole" BS. Go win a national bench rest competition if it shoots that good at 200.

 

[Coy-killa]

I’m not willing to accept the condition as it is, I know something is off. If everything at the crown is fine and there is turkey nothing causing an issue, I’ll take 3/4” groups. I have heard from a couple other people like @Soulezoo said that these rifles can 1 ragged hole or an all touching group. My plan is to head to the smith Sunday. I appreciate the feedback and ideas of how to correct it if there is an issue and will add that to our brainstorming sessions.

 

[b6graham]

unless this is a $20 fix you'll be better off putting the money towards a new barrel. its a used unknown round count 22-250 factory barrel

yeah some factory barrels can '1 ragged hole if i do my part' and some shoot 1moa at best. it's shooting minute of coyote/deer and thats enough for what it is imho

 

[longshooter]

Cut off, taper end of flutes for aestetics, recrown.

 

[Coy-killa]

I was able to get the rifle down to the smith today. We had talked over the phone already so he had an idea of what the situation was. Unfortunately when he looked inside at the condition I got the “oh shit” reaction. As discussed earlier the best he could figure was the cutting tool was stopped prematurely and at 1 point had cut .100” into the what would have been the crown to create a burr on the end of the barrel. He was able to take a reamer with a .224 pilot and cut the entire mess out by removing all of what Remington gave me. It was then finished off with a debuting too. All of the work was completed by hand with tap handles so no disassembly was required. It was a 90 minutes job for $50, a standard crowning price. I was able to shot 6 shots while at his range. 1st were to re-zero, POI was 6” off. The next 4 at 100yds we’re back at .75” with one called flyer. The shots were taken from a bench vs prone which I normally do.
I’ve attached 2 photos of the barrel, I can’t really say crown as he did not technically put a crown back on. There is also a picture of the overall rifle.

 

[Longsome]

I'm not a smith but you probably have 3 reasonable options from cheap to more expensive

1. Do nothing. You say it shoots 3/4 with factory ammo and may improve with hand loads.

2. Cut and crown. Thread and add a brake optional. The lost length won't effect velocity as you would only skim cut the muzzle for a new crown. You may or may not get any more accuracy from this option.

3. Rebarrel

The final option is maybe less reasonable. Have a custom tool ground to recrown inside of that brake chamber area. I imagine that barrel is not threaded and was done at the factory in a similar fashion. I suppose there is a chance that a talented smith may be able to achieve the same thing with a very specific sized boring bar but I would think the smith would have to make the call on how it can be done. I would only go this route if you care about keeping this rifle as original as possible.

Maintaining stock condition wouldn’t be such a bad option. This gun was only manufactured for two years 98’-99’. It sold for $800-$900 is going for $1800 now with asking prices over $2300 money vs performance?

 

[Longsome]

I purchased a used 700 VSSF-P chambered in 22-250 about 4 years ago. It was already equipped with a timney trigger when I got it. I have read over and over again about how well this gun should shoot. The best I can get from it is 3/4 moa from factory loads. It could all still be me at this time holding back its performance. I am working on a hand load but noticed something interesting today after shooting some factory rounds. If I look in through the ports to the crown it looks like there are two very large burrs left from cutting the crown. Imagine a 2 flute cutting tool that was cutting and you stopped and pulled it away. I tried to get a couple pictures and have attached them. I’m reaching out to some much more knowledgeable people to understand what effect this has on the rifles performance. I’ll be reaching out to a local smith in the next couple days but would like to get opinions here first. I’m willing to accept it needs to be scrapped and need a new barrel ??

I attached two pictures. The one looking straight into the break shows the two points of concern at 1:00 and 7:00 with blue arrows. The second is from the left side port looking in to show the depth of the burr.

They came with Timney triggers from Remington. You have a somewhat rare gun. Only made 98’ and 99’ I bought a used one in 2000 gave $800 for it worth $1800 now. Mine is nicely crowned shoots 1” at 100 off bench is finicky about ammo. It likes lighter bullets. I hand load for it. Picture of what mine looks like w/ copper fouling included.

 

[fdkay]

Maintaining stock condition wouldn’t be such a bad option. This gun was only manufactured for two years 98’-99’. It sold for $800-$900 is going for $1800 now with asking prices over $2300 money vs performance?

I'm guessing, since this thread is 4 years old, the OP took care of the issue to his satisfaction