REM 9 1/2 primers in M118lr clone load?

[SPRword]

Howdy gents. I finally bit the bullet and bought a reloading setup. I have a Lee six pack pro and a set of 308 dies on the way. I don’t have a ton of calibers that I plan to load for, or even much in the way of interest when it comes to load development or customization. Really, I just need a way to shoot M118LR/MK316 and MK262 for less than it costs to buy new or reman ammo.

The .308 stuff will be my first effort. I’ll be using it in a SIG 716DMR and an AI AE MKII, I have a ton of cleaned LC LR brass, a few pounds of Accurate 4064, and a couple hundred 175gr SMK’s. My issue is (just like everyone else) with primers. All that I could find locally were some Remington 9 1/2 large rifle primers. I know these are not the preferred primer for MK316/M118LR, but they’re all I have. Will I need to adjust the charge to use them successfully? If so, what load is recommended? Beyond that, will these primers work for this application at all? Beyond a Lee loader that I used years ago for fun, I am a total newby to reloading. Any insight is appreciated.

 

[RegionRat]

Will I need to adjust the charge to use them successfully? If so, what load is recommended?

Any and all component changes will have a slight potential for variance. Even a batch change between the "same" components can cause a slight variance.
You ether lower your standards and just stick to a recipe and be happy, or you learn to do a load work-up.

If you are going to go down this rabbit hole, you will learn to adjust according to two different feedback observations, potentially three.
The first is your target. You will watch the performance of the shot pattern and learn to adjust.
The second, is a chronograph, you will watch the velocity for a given recipe and learn to spot warnings of pressure.
Hopefully you never get into the third, which is pressure sings on the fired cartridge.

As a rookie, stay on the script and get a live mentor if at all possible.
Play it safe, good luck.

 

[diggler1833]

Howdy gents. I finally bit the bullet and bought a reloading setup. I have a Lee six pack pro and a set of 308 dies on the way. I don’t have a ton of calibers that I plan to load for, or even much in the way of interest when it comes to load development or customization. Really, I just need a way to shoot M118LR/MK316 and MK262 for less than it costs to buy new or reman ammo.

The .308 stuff will be my first effort. I’ll be using it in a SIG 716DMR and an AI AE MKII, I have a ton of cleaned LC LR brass, a few pounds of Accurate 4064, and a couple hundred 175gr SMK’s. My issue is (just like everyone else) with primers. All that I could find locally were some Remington 9 1/2 large rifle primers. I know these are not the preferred primer for MK316/M118LR, but they’re all I have. Will I need to adjust the charge to use them successfully? If so, what load is recommended? Beyond that, will these primers work for this application at all? Beyond a Lee loader that I used years ago for fun, I am a total newby to reloading. Any insight is appreciated.

That LC LR brass - while more "clone correct" - is going to hold you back as much as anything else. I bought 500 cases of it ~8 years ago to load in my M24 to be as clone correct as possible. Never could get single digit SDs out of my strings of fire, about 12-15 was as low as it would ever go. Accuracy to 3-400 yards is still fine.

Finally decided one night to H2O capacity test 20 cases from a whole bunch of cartridges and manufacturers (had hours to burn). Lo and behold, the LC LR stuff had an ES somewhere like 1.3gr and an SD of .4gr. The Federal "FC 14" headstamp stuff that my civilian 7.62x51 FGMM was half that.

In your case, I'd charge weight test and shoot over a chronograph until you got your desired velocity (~2,580 - 2,600 FPS), and then tweak seating depth until you got the accuracy you're looking for. You should not run into any pressure issues with your combo if you keep it under 2,600.

I've found that LC cases are a little thicker than others. I'd probably start at 41.5 and work up to 43.0 of AA 4064.

 

[Buzzinga]

 

[Buzzinga]

Don't sweat the Remington primers, you'll be fine. I'd leave your seating depth at 2.810", keep it simple. 4064/175 SMK/2.810" is basically a proven winner at any charge weight. I shot 8 lbs of IMR4064 with that bullet and load development was basically pointless, every group was a ragged hole. I don't shoot .308 much anymore, but 4064 or Varget would be my go to powders. Good luck with your reloading!

 

[Grim's Reapers]

I personally hate those primers for only one reason. They're a pain in the ass to seat in my Remington brass. You'd think a Remington primer would seat easily in their own brass, but I have to ream out my primer pockets for them, thus dedicating that brass to the 9 1/2 primers.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with them otherwise. If those are the only primers you have, they'll be just fine if your load development is consistent with that primer. There's a massive combination of things to consider if you want to go down that rabbit hole. There's case volume variances as mentioned above and all kinds of other crap.

They'll be just fine. I wouldn't worry about them at all. Just weigh your cases and bullets and separate them when you're doing your load development.

Beyond that, it's up to you as to how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. But I wouldn't be concerned with the primers you have.

 

[xsn10s]

I think I'd call Hodgdon and see if the have AA 4064 "Service Rifle" load data. In other powders their Service Rifle load data seems to be a couple of grains less than their "Standard" or regular 308 Win load data. In my bolt rifles the Rem 9 1/2 seem slower than the Fed 210's I like to run. When I got into reloading I ran my loads on the lower side with good accuracy. Even after over 20 years of reloading I'd load semi auto rifles on the light side. Things can get pretty exciting if an AR comes apart.

 

[MK20]

The dtic sheet spec for charge weight of IMR 4064 for MK316 is 41.75 grains.

 

[xsn10s]

The dtic sheet spec for charge weight of IMR 4064 for MK316 is 41.75 grains.

That's pretty close to my old Sierra's "Accuracy" load in my bolt rifle. IMR 4064 41.2 gr, Fed brass, Fed 210 primer. It was slow but very accurate.

 

[diggler1833]

While I got the correct velocity range with IMR-4064 in my M24, I never got the accuracy I wanted...it was always ~.9 MOA or almost an inch for five shots. It was consistent though. I tried both .308 and 7.62x61 FGMM with the 175gr and had the exact same accuracy results.

Without looking at my notes, I think I'm at 42.7gr Varget at 2.810. Velocity is 2,575 [MADE AN EDIT HERE...HAD A TYPO] ish, which is pretty close. Accuracy though is significantly better, which is surprising but I'll gladly take it.

I guess I just got lucky with a really "picky" barrel.

 

[sinister]

You won't notice much difference. Neither is a benchrest rifle, and as mentioned, M118LR brass isn't particularly precision noteworthy.

 

[xsn10s]

While I got the correct velocity range with IMR-4064 in my M24, I never got the accuracy I wanted...it was always ~.9 MOA or almost an inch for five shots. It was consistent though. I tried both .308 and 7.62x61 FGMM with the 175gr and had the exact same accuracy results.

Without looking at my notes, I think I'm at 42.7gr Varget at 2.810. Velocity is 2,775 ish, which is pretty close. Accuracy though is significantly better, which is surprising but I'll gladly take it.

I guess I just got lucky with a really "picky" barrel.

They seem to be like people, they like what they like lol. I could never get Varget to work in my PSS. As a side note an old can of IMR 4064 sent some 168gr ELDMs over 2800 fps with a mid charge load. I was glad I had a chronograph to alert me of the velocities. I've had that can for maybe 20 years. I loaded some rounds for the winter and set the can aside. It could be going bad like some IMR 4350 I had.

 

[Grim's Reapers]

They seem to be like people, they like what they like lol. I could never get Varget to work in my PSS. As a side note an old can of IMR 4064 sent some 168gr ELDMs over 2800 fps with a mid charge load. I was glad I had a chronograph to alert me of the velocities. I've had that can for maybe 20 years. I loaded some rounds for the winter and set the can aside. It could be going bad like some IMR 4350 I had.

They seem to take it a step further and are more like women.

I have a 7RM that loves H1000 and despises Retumbo. I did a ladder with the Retumbo and my rifle basically gave me the middle finger for wasting my time. It was very frustrating. With H1000 it has two sweet spot nodes, one slower and one pretty hot. Apparently, for whatever reason, H1000 is who she likes to dance with.

 

[xsn10s]

They seem to take it a step further and are more like women.

I have a 7RM that loves H1000 and despises Retumbo. I did a ladder with the Retumbo and my rifle basically gave me the middle finger for wasting my time. It was very frustrating. With H1000 it has two sweet spot nodes, one slower and one pretty hot. Apparently, for whatever reason, H1000 is who she likes to dance with.

I got an accurate fire forming load for my 7mm RM using RL22 and 180 gr ELDM's. But I only had about 1/2-3/4 lb left. Now I got to do a load work up with Staball HD. The only powder I could get. Now there aren't many powders out there

 

[Grim's Reapers]

I got an accurate fire forming load for my 7mm RM using RL22 and 180 gr ELDM's. But I only had about 1/2-3/4 lb left. Now I got to do a load work up with Staball HD. The only powder I could get. Now there aren't many powders out there

Yeah I'm shooting 180 ELDM's and 190 A-TIPS. I seem to recall there being some H1000 floating around. When I found it at Powder Valley I bought a keg of it. Reloading Unlimited and Republic Ammunition currently has it. But if you already bought the Staball, please PM me if you're able to get some good loads worked up with it and the 180 ELDM's. I actually started a thread asking about Staball HD and 7RM experience because allegedly it helps with copper fouling, but only one guy responded. I guess not many people use it, but it seems to be available all the time (which might not be a good sign) LOL

I've got some stellar loads worked up with the H1000 and 180 ELDM's.

 

[xsn10s]

Yeah I'm shooting 180 ELDM's and 190 A-TIPS. I seem to recall there being some H1000 floating around. When I found it at Powder Valley I bought a keg of it. Reloading Unlimited and Republic Ammunition currently has it. But if you already bought the Staball, please PM me if you're able to get some good loads worked up with it and the 180 ELDM's. I actually started a thread asking about Staball HD and 7RM experience because allegedly it helps with copper fouling, but only one guy responded. I guess not many people use it, but it seems to be available all the time (which might not be a good sign) LOL

I've got some stellar loads worked up with the H1000 and 180 ELDM's.

Yeah I missed the window for Retumbo and H1000. I needed a pocket EDC since the crime spiked in my local very rural area. So that ate up my powder funds. I'll try to remember to pm you my findings with Staball HD. Here's my Remarms 700 7mm RM thread on LRH. https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/my-new-remarms-adl-7mm-rm.338029/page-6#post-3071017

 

[diggler1833]

They seem to be like people, they like what they like lol. I could never get Varget to work in my PSS. As a side note an old can of IMR 4064 sent some 168gr ELDMs over 2800 fps with a mid charge load. I was glad I had a chronograph to alert me of the velocities. I've had that can for maybe 20 years. I loaded some rounds for the winter and set the can aside. It could be going bad like some IMR 4350 I had.

Crap.

I boogered up my velocity in that post man. I meant to type 2,575 and I typed 2,775...I have since corrected my mistake. I still like Varget though, and it is still my main powder for both of my remaining .308 bolt guns.

I've never tried to make a .308 fast. I know there are reasons for doing it, but since I don't compete I have other cartridges for that.

IMR-4064 and TAC are what I use in my .308 pig ARs. My latest load is 43.0gr of IMR-4064 under a 150gr SST at ~2,580 FPS out of am 18" barrel. I'm using standard LC brass, and that stuff is so thick that you are going to be compressing loads just 1 - 1.5gr over Hodgdon's listed starting load.

 

[xsn10s]

Crap.

I boogered up my velocity in that post man. I meant to type 2,575 and I typed 2,775...I have since corrected my mistake. I still like Varget though, and it is still my main powder for both of my remaining .308 bolt guns.

I've never tried to make a .308 fast. I know there are reasons for doing it, but since I don't compete I have other cartridges for that.

Yeah my original IMR 4064 41.2gr over a 168gr SMK was around 2500 fps 24" barrel. I might something like that in my FAL STG-58.

 

[tekmann2377]

Your Rem 9 1/2 primers will work fine. I have shot a few lbs of Accurate 4064 in my 308 AR, mainly under 155 gr bullets. It is not an exact match for IMR 4064, but it is close. I would start at 40 grains and work your way up. You will probably end up in the 41 to 43 gr range under 175's. I used 44 gr under Sierra 155's and it was a moderate load.

 

[SPRword]

I appreciate all the info guys. Sounds like it should work ok. My press shows up in the next few days, I’ll let you guys know how it goes!

 

[rdsii640]

Don't sweat the Remington primers, you'll be fine. I'd leave your seating depth at 2.810", keep it simple. 4064/175 SMK/2.810" is basically a proven winner at any charge weight. I shot 8 lbs of IMR4064 with that bullet and load development was basically pointless, every group was a ragged hole. I don't shoot .308 much anymore, but 4064 or Varget would be my go to powders. Good luck with your reloading!

He is shooting AA4064 from Accurate Arms. I don't know if the burn rate is the same as IMR4060

 

[918v]

Don’t load 46 grains in a LC case. That data from Hodgdon posted above is for thin Winchester commercial cases. You’ll be over pressure in LC brass.

 

[MikeMiller]

Used plenty of the Remington primers in the past. They work fine

The LC LR is good brass but to get the most out of it you need to de burr the inside of the Flash Hole or you will never get the single digit SD