Remember this when you go car shopping and......

[Oldloser]

McCain didn’t.

Inflation was at the root of the S&L crisis. Another story.

The base crime was the outright fraud of the S&L conspiring to loan money for property it knew to be overpriced. And many S&L leaders got cuts and bonuses..

McCain was involved in pressuring regulators to look the other way and he took lots of money - including Keating's - to look the other way.

It was the hard work of state and local prosecutors and people like my grandparents who kept the pressure up and did a lot of the forensic work to develop evidence that sent over 1000 bankers to jail.

McCain should have been kicked out of the Senate and prosecuted by a state's AG somewhere.

My grandmother almost made it into the courtroom of one trial with my great uncle's 45. Her plan was to shoot the S&L president and his CFO. Might have been a good thing for that to occur a few times.

She always thought McCain was a fake.

 

[pmclaine]

Inflation was at the root of the S&L crisis. Another story.

The base crime was the outright fraud of the S&L conspiring to loan money for property it knew to be overpriced. And many S&L leaders got cuts and bonuses..

McCain was involved in pressuring regulators to look the other way and he took lots of money - including Keating's - to look the other way.

It was the hard work of state and local prosecutors and people like my grandparents who kept the pressure up and did a lot of the forensic work to develop evidence that sent over 1000 bankers to jail.

McCain should have been kicked out of the Senate and prosecuted by a state's AG somewhere.

My grandmother almost made it into the courtroom of one trial with my great uncle's 45. Her plan was to shoot the S&L president and his CFO. Might have been a good thing for that to occur a few times.

She always thought McCain was a fake.

John Glenn and McCain were too hero to punish.

I think the other involved politicians lost their jobs.

Interesting all the politicians were democrats.

Prove me wrong.

 

[Oldloser]

And did that go get their money back? I suspect not. There is no justice. In fact, sending them to jail just cost your family even more money because they then got hit with taxes that supported those asshats in jail.

There was justice. The execs at the S&L went to jail for 12 years and then there was court proceedings where personal assets were seized and sold at auction.

My grandparents retired in the 70s and sold two mid sized business they built from scratch after Prohibition ended. 1/2 of the cash from that went into a local S&L. My grandparents were not happy about losing millions but they were happy with the process and the verdict.

But to be honest, the better part of it was their fault.

Had they just bought land fee simple rather than get caught up in the greed cycle they would have been better off.

 

[Marinevet1]

This has got to be one of the most utterly stupid lines ever said

It's fucking clear that people who say that do not understand what profits do nor do they understand that profits are hardly the top impact a business has on the communities in which it operates.

Not only that, people like you cannot grasp the fact that the American subsidiaries of foreign corporations are taxed on their earning here.

BTW the profits go to whomever owns the stock. Honda is publicly traded. Want a piece of the action? Buy the fuck in. Stock exchange is that way ----->

I could not give a fuck less about American automakers, who long ago abandoned the state where I live to make their vehicles in Mexico, China, and India.

Ha Ha........there is some funny shit in this. I will agree with you, Honda is a publicly traded company........They do not pay out all profits made to their shareholders.
With the world headquarters in Tokyo, you will have a hard time convincing me that the profits are not going to Japan.

 

[E. Bryant]

Ha Ha........there is some funny shit in this. I will agree with you, Honda is a publicly traded company........They do not pay out all profits made to their shareholders.
With the world headquarters in Tokyo, you will have a hard time convincing me that the profits are not going to Japan.

If it's a publicly traded company, then the profits either go to the shareholders or retained. Decisions about how capital is allocated are indeed made in Tokyo. Given the fact that Honda directly employs more than 30,000 Americans and maybe 10x that many are employed by Honda suppliers, and given the fact that you and I and any other American can tap into that stream of profits by purchasing Honda stock and receiving $1/share each year, I feel they've demonstrated sufficient loyalty.

I'm also not convinced that continuing to punish "new GM" for sins committed by the old company 20 years ago and a particular presidential administration 13 years ago doesn't deserve any purpose. Shunning GM for shifting its own production and that of its suppliers to low-cost countries would seem like a better cause, but rigidly applying that sort of principled stance to every auto company results in very few options and so not many people use this approach.

By the way, every country subsidizes its auto industry in some fashion because if they didn't we'd be down to about 2-3 automakers worldwide - just like every other mature industry. And then just like the airliner industry, the remaining companies would still be subsidized.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I have a difficult time believing this is only going to cost the blue collar tax payers $184M.

Then again, the CBO is a worthless pile of flaming dog shit on a good day.

Estimated Budgetary Effects of H.R. 6929, the Susan Muffley Act of 2022, as modified by Amendment 2, the Manager's Amendment

As Posted on the Website of the House Committee on Rules on July 20, 2022

www.cbo.gov

 

[308pirate]

Ha Ha........there is some funny shit in this. I will agree with you, Honda is a publicly traded company........They do not pay out all profits made to their shareholders.
With the world headquarters in Tokyo, you will have a hard time convincing me that the profits are not going to Japan.

What's the US GDP impact of repatriated profits? If that's the hill that you want to die on, let's go. Let's see how much of this you understand.

 

[EddieNFL]

I'm also not convinced that continuing to punish "new GM" for sins committed by the old company 20 years ago and a particular presidential administration 13 years ago doesn't deserve any purpose. Shunning GM for shifting its own production and that of its suppliers to low-cost countries would seem like a better cause, but rigidly applying that sort of principled stance to every auto company results in very few options and so not many people use this approach.

I'm not punishing GM (or Ford or Chrysler) for any of the above. I don't buy their products for the same reason I don't buy Hi-Points.

 

[E. Bryant]

I'm not punishing GM (or Ford or Chrysler) for any of the above. I don't buy their products for the same reason I don't buy Hi-Points.

That's fine, and I have no problem with saying "I'm not buying a Malibu because it's inferior to an Accord". (Or, even more frequently nowadays, "I'm buying a Japanese car because no one else actually makes cars anymore".)

Just stop with the convoluted moral justifications, because they tend to look good on bumper stickers but break down upon deeper inspection.

 

[EddieNFL]

That's fine, and I have no problem with saying "I'm not buying a Malibu because it's inferior to an Accord". (Or, even more frequently nowadays, "I'm buying a Japanese car because no one else actually makes cars anymore".)

Just stop with the convoluted moral justifications, because they tend to look good on bumper stickers but break down upon deeper inspection.

I don't do bumper stickers...or become emotionally invested in their "causes."

 

[E. Bryant]

I don't do bumper stickers...or become emotionally invested in their "causes."

Good for you - please feel free to pat yourself in the back or whatever else feels good. There are plenty of others here who want to buy into one-liners as a substitute for articulating a nuanced stance.

 

[EddieNFL]

Good for you - please feel free to pat yourself in the back or whatever else feels good. There are plenty of others here who want to buy into one-liners as a substitute for articulating a nuanced stance.

Good luck on your crusade, Don.

 

[Redmanss]

You idiots are literally arguing Ford vs Chevy. What in the fuck...

Guess what, they all fucking suck.

 

[91Eunozs]

It wasn’t the bailout that turned me from being a life-long GM owner/driver, it was the screwing of the bond holders when they declared them null and void, then issued new ones… later conveniently sold at a discount to the unions.

I won’t even let GM products park on my driveway now. Completely serious.

 

[rtB]

Just let me buy a Lada dammit!

$12,999.00 base price new (converted to dollars from Rubles)

$

 

[kwityurbeachn]

Haven't looked at a Government Motors vehicle since that 2009 bailout. I know other car companies have had issues as well but that was one of the worst I have seen. Ford didn't take that bailout and it shifted a lot of business to them at that time. Right now I'm all Toyota assembled in Texas or Mexico.

The reason Ford didn’t need the bailout is a complicated one. The 6.0 diesel motor should had them first in line for the bailouts if they had taken care of their customers. Chevy and ford also used the same hpops designed for Canadian diesel(which is slightly cleaner than us). Ford wanted to see every receipt and records on maintenance and often blamed the fuel companies If you covered those bases. People died in ambulances due to that motor. company A took care of their customers and couldnt weather a recession. Company b shafted their customers and didn’t need loans. full disclosure at this time I have 2 f150s, 2 e350s a f350 and a 2006 f550 with a pos bullet proofed 6.0.

 

[E. Bryant]

The reason Ford didn’t need the bailout is a complicated one.

No, it's really not all that complicated - Alan Mulally was an outsider who was able to recognize that Ford was a shitshow (unlike Rick Wagoner), and mortgaged literally everything - including the Blue Oval logo - to secure about $25 billion in funding way back in 2006 when banks were still lending. Getting a $6 billion loan from the federal government in 2009 didn't hurt.

The 6.0L fiasco cost Ford around $4 billion, if I recall the publicly-disclosed numbers correctly. That's not chump change, but it's a relatively small part of the company's losses during that period.

 

[kwityurbeachn]

No, it's really not all that complicated - Alan Mulally was an outsider who was able to recognize that Ford was a shitshow (unlike Rick Wagoner), and mortgaged literally everything - including the Blue Oval logo - to secure about $25 billion in funding way back in 2006 when banks were still lending. Getting a $6 billion loan from the federal government in 2009 didn't hurt.

The 6.0L fiasco cost Ford around $4 billion, if I recall the publicly-disclosed numbers correctly. That's not chump change, but it's a relatively small part of the company's losses during that period.

They also lost market share to dodge on heavy duty trucks in late 2000s. to top it off the people that experiencEd issues with that motor only run ford v10s to this day. These are 200+ mil yearly companies. They also lost or left their partner on the Diesel engines(international) and built their next fiasco. They introduced European emissions in maybe 2003 on an engine that wasn’t designed for them. If I remember correctly they used an European company to design that while international partnership(maybe navistar) made an engine separate. Their write offs did not include the customers they screwed over that didn’t take them to court. I know a guy that only used his to pull his bass boat has rebuilt that motor 3x. Had 20k in a motor that was brand new truck due to them blaming fuel. i suppose they went from deleting egr to replacing studs to bulletproof to gorilla proof. lol. havent even gotten into the spark plugs in the f150 that would break off the tips into the cylinder.
I think they finally figured the Diesel engine out in the last few years but as I wont buy their engines I haven’t kept up with em. Will take chevys warranty service any day over fords.