Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

[Lonely Raven]

First post - Yes I'm reading the FAQs and hitting the searches, but it seems nothing is cut and dried around here so I'm hoping if I provide some info, the experienced folks around here can help guide me. I'll try not to be the FNG - but in advance, I'm sorry if I'm asking a repeated question.

I'm hoping to save up and take a Precision Rifle class next year. My rifle experience is very limited. I've gone to a couple Appleseeds to get the fundamentals, and now I'd like to really learn to shoot LR.

I'm not a hunter, military, or mall ninja. I just enjoy shooting and would like to learn this skill.

My range has 100-200-300-600 yard setups. As I said, I plan on taking a Precision Rifle course (not decide who or where yet).

I figure for KISS I'll just go 308
I do reload, but I'm not setup for 308 yet.
The only "decent" scope I have right now is Bushnell Elite 4200
I have an inexpensive but decent spotting scope
I have a great bench rest and rear bag if it's needed for anything.

I'm considering the Remington 700 SS SPS - $616 Shipped

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/97136

Or the Remington 700 SS 5R - $1001 Shipped

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411540287

I can barely afford the 5R, and would have to put the rings on my credit card. Or I can get the SS - SPS and do the trigger, or rings and maybe SS X 10

That is all assuming these are good/acceptable prices, and nobody knows of a great deal going on right now one something similar or better.


So my first question, is the 5R really worth the extra $400?

Am I barking up the right tree with these two options, for practice and precision rifle course?

This FNG is open to your thoughts.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I own two Rem 700s in .308 Win: an SPS SS, and an SPS-Varmint. At the moment, both have 3-9x40 Zeiss Conquest scopes on them.

To begin, both are sub-MOA shooters, with the SPS SS consistently producing 3/8"-3/4" 3-shot groups at 100 yds off a bipod with rear bag and my SPS-V producing 1/4"-1/2" 3-shot groups, both using my hand loads (42.0gr RL-15 behind a 168gr Sierra MatchKing bullet). Neither rifle has been modified in any way yet. I got the SPS SS as a hunting rifle and the SPS-V as a target rifle.

You'll get many opinions as to what rifle to start with and what mods to do and in what order. There are few really unrealistic views. However, the single most important purchase after the rifle is ammo and the next is range time. A real precision stick that you can't shoot much is worth less than one that you can.

Now I went back and forth between the 5R and the Rem Long Range Tactical with the 40x trigger, the 26" fluted stainless/TriNytrite barrel and the Bell& Carlson stock. After much thought, I opted for the SPS-V...I decided that I would shoot it, see what it needed and then do a build that suited my needs.

Imagine my surprise at the 1/4" 3-shot group from an unmodified rifle. This showed me a few things:

1. Remington can produce some great rifles (the SPS-V and the 700P are purportedly built with the same barreled action)
2. A Tupperware stock with a non-floated barrel allows good accuracy for some rifles
3. My hand loads are pretty good
4. I don't need to start with a new barrel and action-truing...I can wait on that til I need or want to change the barrel or the caliber
5. For the shooting I have in mind, different glass is probably desirable (the scope I'm using for the moment is a duplex reticle).

Now I've got some useful experience from military high-power shooting with M1 Garands, M14s and AR15s using iron sights so distances out to 600 yards are somewhat familiar, though in mil rifle matches, the targets are bigger than in many precision rifle matches. A key lesson I've learned is that the shooter is more important than their choice of equipment...and in 57 years of rifle shooting, I have yet to shoot a rifle that is not more accurate than me (although some of the early ones were close).

Net, net, I would look to a heavy barrel Rem 700 as a first rifle...while accurate, my SPS SS heats up quickly. IMHO, you won't go wrong with either plan...an accurate rifle, good instruction and LOTS of practice are the most important starting ingredients...after a while, you'll find the limitations imposed upon you by your equipment and then, hopefully, have saved the dough to get exactly the equipment you need.

Good luck,

FH

 

[SABuzzard]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I was kind of in the same place early this year... I purchased my first "precision" rifle in January. Opted for a Remington 700 VLS in .308. 26" heavy barrel about $800.00 shipped.

First trip to the range I was able to consistently get just under 1" 3 shot groups with factory ammo (Federal Premium Gold Medal Match 168 gr Sierra BTHP). Nothing to write home about but not bad for a factory gun and ammo combo.

After adding a Jewel trigger and considerable range time the same gun and ammo is shooting sub .5" groups with enough regularity that it doesn't surprise me.

I think the main difference was me. The gun straight from the factory was shooting better than I was able to take advantage of. When I originally started looking at precision rifles I had the mindset that I would quickly have to heavily customize it to be truly "accurate".

I'm now shooting F-Class competitions out to 600 yards. I'm competitive even shooting a basically stock Remington and factory ammo. Through F-Class I'm realizing how much shooter technique and experience play into it. Now I'm not going to touch my rifle until I burn up a barrel or have proof that I'm able to out shoot it. Only change I'm going to make is to start hand loading.

So... you can't go wrong with a 700. Chance are that either rifle will shoot well (possibly very well). Spend as much time at the range as you can. Figure out what you can improve via technique before modifying the gun.

 

[tpr564]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I enjoy my Savage Model 10PC. For a an out-of-the-box ready to go rifle you can hardly find better. If you know ahead of time that you don't/won't spend $2000 in future upgrades and just want a rifle that shoots, the 10PC is a good way to go. Mine was under $650 last year.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I purchased a lightly used 700P off the Hide here about a year ago for about $600. Dated by barrel stamps back to 1992. It had been Ceracoated but unfired since. The parked crown was a bit rough so got that cleaned up, torqued the screws, smoothed up the action (the Ceracote was a bit thick), adjusted the trigger. Shoots groups under 2 inches at 400 yards. I'm happy with it. You would be too. Get what you can afford and still buy enough ammo to burn the first barrel out. JMHO

 

[Lonely Raven]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

Thanks for the guidance. I'm all about putting in the time and rounds down range, so no worries there.

It sounds like if I get the 700 SS - SPS I should be well enough off till I can prove to myself the rifle is holding me back. I'm sure I'm a long way off from that.

I was considering the Savage line, but I know two Rem 700 armorers within a couple hours of me, so if/when I need work, it's easy to take it to someone I know.

 

[Radar360]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

IMHO.

I have a 5r Milspec, and I have a couple of Remy's SPS Varmints among other rifles.

I like the SPS-V and get as tight groupings to make me smile all the way home from the range. I've gotten MOA's that measure .247,.266,.344,.382,.464 (among many others which weren't MOA as I tested varies hand loads). But the bottom line is that the SS SPS is very capable of sub-MOA all day when feed the right stuff and when you do your part.

They're deadly performers in their own right. Mine are decent mid-range and I could easily prove it in a competition. But I think they're capable of beyond mid-range as others have proven.

They would meet your range setup that you described.

Note, I do replace my triggers (Jewell and Timney are the ones I go to. I do replace the stocks (McMillan, AICS, Manners, and Choate), and I do get the best glass I can afford (SS SWFA & NF). I do reload with good components (Winchester, Lapua, and even Remington). Each of these contribute to the overall performance. Even then, they can't compensate for my inabilities on a bad day. But they're there for I'm in the game and that's good.

So to address your question, is the 5r worth the extra money? it depends. For me, when I got it it was and I'm glad I did. My 5r is a .308 and I learned lots from that rifle, including reloading, form, etc. and I hit a golf ball out to 700 yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59kJphXBS7Q

(look for it at about 2:10 mark. You'll see a small bump when I squeeze the trigger and then the hit. then the camera spans back to see the distance.)

If you were to ask, Can one expect excellent performance from a 700 SS SPS and use the money saved for rings, etc.? My answer is yes, of course.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I'll kind of hit on what everyone else says, then add something.

Get a good rifle, best you can afford with good glass. AS far as I'm concerned your Bushnell 4200 is a good enough piece of glass to get you going where you need to now. You aren't going to need a 'tactical' reticle until you start doing some kind of multiple unknown range shooting.

Many here will say Remington, I will say Savage model 12. Any flavor you can afford. It'll save you some cash too, down the road, when you want to change barrels. For damn sure don't get talked into going with a Rem 710/715/770 or a used 788. They shoot alright but don't really pack the potential that the 700 does. Same goes for Savage Axis/Edge.

It never hurts to shop around either for somebody's used stick that needs to go in order for them to get on to their next big money-pit

. Look around, good Winchester 70's, Rem 700's, Savage 12/112's all looking for a new home because someone wants the latest and greatest, tightest new rifle.

Now, anymore on that and it's beating a dead horse again. Something you may want to consider is find out who teaches long range here on the forum. Check with Lowlight, He owns the site. He has a list of vendors here and can steer you in the right direction as to who is closest to you. Plan on making time for one short course at least. Hopefully, you take a course or shoot with someone serious before you build up some bad habits that you'll have to work out of your system. Great instruction leads to a lot less loss of years of frustration. IMO, that's money as well spent as the rounds you would have fired not knowing what is going on.

-good luck

 

[Lonely Raven]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Radar86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMHO.
If you were to ask, Can one expect excellent performance from a 700 SS SPS and use the money saved for rings, etc.? My answer is yes, of course.

</div></div>

I think that about sums it up right there.

Thank you again, every one. I'll just get what I can afford and work it from there.

 

[Hunt4life]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I recently took a precision rifle class. I have been shooting my whole life, but just took the class. I took the class with a 700SPS in 308 on a B and C medalist.

I was the unlucky guy that got a bad one, it happens. I was getting between 3" and 3/4" groups with Match Ammo but the groups were awful. I honestly thought it was me until I sent the rifle in for a new barrel and the smith told me the action was bad out of spec and sent it back to remington. Again, it happens to all manufacurers.

I honestly think if you can buy a Remington or Savage Action, or cheap throw away gun for the action, you are better off. Then start your build from there. A good match grade barrel will not dissappoint you and will likely save you lots of money in the long run.

I ran a Millet 10x scope on it that I was happy with but have purchased the SWFA 5x20 HD used, to top my new build with when the smith gets it back to me. I am really excited about it.

I would call the instructor and see if they have a loaner for you to take the class with, it is worth a shot.

 

[gbird001]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I, just like many on here aren't going to tell you what rifle to get, but I will tell you what I know. A rifleman is a person skilled at using a rifle... any rifle. I'm no guru but I've spent a share of time on a 1k yard range. I've gone through courses and seen many others shooting 1k, with the spectrum of equipment from out of the box 700's to super high end custom jobs. I've seen people unable to hit 1k with rifles that are known to reach out to 1k (with other operators) I've seen people unable to reach 1k and after all the tweaking in the world accuse the equipment of the shortcoming, only to have the course instructors (very politely) hop on their gun and light up 1k w relative ease. The only rifle I have seen unable to reach out to 1k was a bolt action .308 (won't mention the brand) and the problem was that it was a hunting setup with a lightweight barrel that couldn't quite handle the heat of high volume shooting. (at least that was the verdict after all of the chefs in the kitchen deliberated) so good equipment does matter, but the operator matters more.
Now I know you aren't looking for it yet, but I can't contain myself, you must go to Badlands in Grandfield OK www.badlandstactical.net
Best of luck to you.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

Just a couple of things:
The SPS you have linked to is a sporter weight barrel.
Absolutely fine for a few shots, but you may find yourself heating that barrel rather quickly at a precision rifle class.

The SPS will also need a new stock, so add at least 230 bucks for a B&C medalist series.

The 5R is a fine rifle and after some soul searching, decided it was the one that I wanted.

There are other fine choices in the remington line.
The 700P, which comes in a very good HS precision stock that does not need replaced (very similar to the 5R stock).

The SPS tactical and the SPS Tactical AAC SD, both heavy barrel, both need new stocks. The standard Tactical model is about 580 bucks, the AAC SD model is about 620.

The SPS varmint, usually about 550, also needs a new stock.
This is a VERY good shooting rifle, add a B&C M40 or light tactical stock and you will have very good shooter for just under 800.

Many folks will insist that you need to replace the trigger, HOGWASH. While the trigger is not the best, when adjusted to 3.5 lbs it is crisp with no overtravel.
Did i replace mine on the 5R? Yes. But I like a wider trigger shoe that is ribbed. My 5R shot 1/2 moa with the factory trigger set to 3.5 lbs.

Consider this also:
Buds offers financing for most, but not all rifles.
If you buy the 5R, you have one year to pay it off interest free. You will also have to buy a 50 dollar extended warranty to get this deal.

Also consider the following:
Winchester Stealth .308, 26" barrel 1-10" twist made with the FN controlled feed action. About 770 and comes in a very good stock.

Several Savage rifles, stick with either the HS Precision stock or accu-stock.

 

[Flatland308]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I had a Remington SPS Tactical in .308 and it is a great rife. It is reasonably priced and accurate however it will beat you after long shooting periods. I have since gone with the Remington AAC SD in .308 and there is a considerable difference in having a muzzle break on the 20" barrel. It is just as accurate and price effective as well. Just a thought.

 

[TC1]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I went with the 5R. So far I've been very happy with it.

 

[Radar360]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

Take a look at this SPS model. http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm I think you can find one near you and it's a decent price.

If you get this, get a good rear bag, don't worry about getting a new scope, the scope you have is fine. Just be sure it's mounted with decent rings. Also you'll be surprised what a decent bi-pod will do for the overall experience.

I have a few rifles in my safe with Tikka and Savage being among them. And all of them will shoot better than I can on any given day.

Don't break the bank, but get what you can afford and in time, you'll have a decent collection.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

OK...I feel dumb, somehow or other I missed the title of this thread....taking a class. That's a smart idea.

.....D'oh!

Anyhow, good luck with the rifle selection, and do well in your class.

 

[Lonely Raven]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK...I feel dumb, somehow or other I missed the title of this thread....taking a class. That's a smart idea.

.....D'oh!

Anyhow, good luck with the rifle selection, and do well in your class. </div></div>

No worries SW, I should probably get a one on one to start with so I don't learn bad habits before I get to a real class. I fully plan on getting a few hundred rounds down range before I get to a class and don't want "training scars".

OK, so last night I just bit the bullet and went for the 5R "milspec". Then I called SWFA and asked for guidance on mount and rings for my Bushnell Elite 4200 since it's got 1" tube. I spent about $125 there so I didn't skimp out, but didn't go overboard on rings that would probably be replaced if/when I upgrade the optic.


Now, I've been reading up on peoples thoughts on proper break in, I've got a good coated cleaning rod, and I'm ordering some new cleaning materials since my kits are basically the spray and scrub type for combat pistols and rifles.

I guess the last thing I need guidance on for now is ammo.

I've been doing some reading here in the forums, and I see a lot of people handloading or shooting $2+ a round Match ammo. I can't quite afford $2 a shot right now, and my first 100 rounds will be factory till I can get my reloading bench setup for .308.

<span style="font-weight: bold">So what ammo should I be looking at that's good bang for the buck? I figure about $1 a shot or under, "decent" factory loads. If I can get 1 MOA or less for a buck a shot on factory ammo, that should be plenty fine for break in and practice. Right?</span>

 

[quattrodoc]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

$1 or so a shot, you can get Fed Gold Medal Match, Black Hills, etc if you watch carefully for sales or people unloading it.... all very high quality ammo. In that rifle, that ammo is capable of better than 1 MOA. You could likely buy cheaper stuff and get about 1 MOA. You could start with cheaper ammo to work on fundamentals, and then move up to better ammo as you get better.

Not sure where you got the $2 a shot reload number, but reloading ammo you can get MORE accurate than any factory ammo for about 40-50 CENTS a shot. So depending on how much you're going to shoot, look into reloading. My match 223 ammo I reload for about 23 cents a shot. Much better than a buck!! The bullet is the most expensive component after you have brass...

 

[Beef82]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

Hornady Match with the 168 A-max gets my vote, its just shy of $30 a box in AK, probably cheaper everywhere else in the world, from my .308 SPS-V it'll shoot 1 ragged hole 3-4 shot groups at 100, and under .5 MOA out to atleast 300yds, if i do my part. Nosler Custom Comp with a 168 is a little more affordable, and holds about MOA from my rifle, most praise Federal GMM, IMO its expensive and shoots mediocre, your results may vary. I think the 5R's are rifled 1 in 11.25", so you might be better served by something in the 175gr. area, try a few different bullet weights and designs, don't marry any preconceived notion of what should shoot well, there may be better. Also, though most on here talk match ammo don't be afraid to try hunting rounds, they sometimes cost less and shoot very well from some rifles. Good luck, enjoy that new rifle.

 

[Lonely Raven]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quattrodoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Not sure where you got the $2 a shot reload number, but reloading ammo you can get MORE accurate than any factory ammo for about 40-50 CENTS a shot. So depending on how much you're going to shoot, look into reloading. My match 223 ammo I reload for about 23 cents a shot. Much better than a buck!! The bullet is the most expensive component after you have brass... </div></div>


Notice I said Reloading *or* shooting $2 a shot. I never said reloads costed $2.

Thanks for the tips again guys, I'm goin' shopping!

 

[Sumpter Steve]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

Heres a link to a great article titled "Budget rifle build" by someone who is very respected on this site. I'm sure this will help.

http://www.8541tactical.com/budget%20precision%20article.php

 

[Lonely Raven]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sumpter Steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heres a link to a great article titled "Budget rifle build" by someone who is very respected on this site. I'm sure this will help.

http://www.8541tactical.com/budget%20precision%20article.php </div></div>

Thank you! That's a great article...hopefully he finishes it up and touches on ammunition as well.

 

[Sumpter Steve]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonely Raven</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sumpter Steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heres a link to a great article titled "Budget rifle build" by someone who is very respected on this site. I'm sure this will help.

http://www.8541tactical.com/budget%20precision%20article.php </div></div>

Thank you! That's a great article...hopefully he finishes it up and touches on ammunition as well. </div></div>

Your welcome. Welcome to the site.

 

[quattrodoc]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

My bad, sorry - just trying to help!! Welcome by the way.

 

[Lonely Raven]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: quattrodoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My bad, sorry - just trying to help!! Welcome by the way.
</div></div>

No worries - And thanks for the welcome!

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

Before you get reloading it will be anywhere from about $1.00 to $1.50 a shot for .308. The $2.00 a shot figure comes from 'uncommon' match rounds such as the .260 Rem, 6.5x47, 6.5-.284, 7mm-08, or 6.5 Creedmoor. That's the high end for those. I've almost always found them for less.

As far as break in goes, you probably aren't going to see any difference than if you just shot it. My own personal experience with it is that it usually means a small but measurable improvement. The amount of improvement isn't much of a deal breaker as the outside best chance of improvement is 1/4 MOA at short ranges. It is considered to be paramount to the benchrest world where at 100 yds. 1/4" is huge. In the tactical world it's almost unnoticeable. You did the right thing by getting the coated cleaning rod.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lonely Raven</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK...I feel dumb, somehow or other I missed the title of this thread....taking a class. That's a smart idea.

.....D'oh!

Anyhow, good luck with the rifle selection, and do well in your class. </div></div>

No worries SW, I should probably get a one on one to start with so I don't learn bad habits before I get to a real class. I fully plan on getting a few hundred rounds down range before I get to a class and don't want "training scars".

OK, so last night I just bit the bullet and went for the 5R "milspec". Then I called SWFA and asked for guidance on mount and rings for my Bushnell Elite 4200 since it's got 1" tube. I spent about $125 there so I didn't skimp out, but didn't go overboard on rings that would probably be replaced if/when I upgrade the optic.


Now, I've been reading up on peoples thoughts on proper break in, I've got a good coated cleaning rod, and I'm ordering some new cleaning materials since my kits are basically the spray and scrub type for combat pistols and rifles.

I guess the last thing I need guidance on for now is ammo.

I've been doing some reading here in the forums, and I see a lot of people handloading or shooting $2+ a round Match ammo. I can't quite afford $2 a shot right now, and my first 100 rounds will be factory till I can get my reloading bench setup for .308.

<span style="font-weight: bold">So what ammo should I be looking at that's good bang for the buck? I figure about $1 a shot or under, "decent" factory loads. If I can get 1 MOA or less for a buck a shot on factory ammo, that should be plenty fine for break in and practice. Right?</span>

</div></div>

Before you get reloading it will be anywhere from about $1.00 to $1.50 a shot for .308. The $2.00 a shot figure comes from 'uncommon' match rounds such as the .260 Rem, 6.5x47, 6.5-.284, 7mm-08, or 6.5 Creedmoor. That's the high end for those. I've almost always found them for less.

Here's some sites that have ammo for reasonable:

http://www.ammoman.com/index.htm

http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|830|848

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/232?

http://www.midwayusa.com

Two guys on here I know who build ammo, (and may well have competitive prices to these sites)
Are chadtrg42 and Captain-Kick-ass (North Texas precision rifle)

<span style="color: #3333FF">Edit: Southwest Ammunition is also a vendor on here. Go to PX sales and he's got a spot in the threads section.

Triad sell Black Hills Match, too.</span>

Again, look at the FAQ's and check with Lowlight as to who sells here. Always good to support the this site first.

As far as break in goes, you probably aren't going to see any difference than if you just shot it. My own personal experience with it is that it usually means a small but measurable improvement. The amount of improvement isn't much of a deal breaker as the outside best chance of improvement is 1/4 MOA at short ranges. It is considered to be paramount to the benchrest world where at 100 yds. 1/4" is huge. In the tactical world it's almost unnoticeable. Anymore with custom barrels, they are lapped and the process doesn't do what it used to. You have a factory barrel so doing the shoot one clean one for 5- 10 then shoot 3 or 5 for 30 might be in order. Just understand that a barrel break-in isn't going to make a 1/4" shooter out of a 1" shooting barrel.

You did the right thing by getting the coated cleaning rod. For cleaning I no longer use ANY brushes. I normally use a bore foam, let it sit a while then just patch it out with a jag. Chemically, it dissolves the copper into solution and comes out of the end of the barrel as a dark bluish, almost purple liquid. Physically, the solution also acts like hand soap on your hands. It makes the surface slippery enough and the carbon floats out in the solution too. If the fouling is bad in a particular rifle, then I break out the Montana Gold stuff that smells like concentrated ammonia. After I use that stuff I clean my jags in hot water. It eats them.

 

[jrswanson1]

Re: Remington 700 for Precision Rifle Classes -

I have only owned three bolt guns, all of them Rem 700s. The two I own now are a 700 CDL in 7mm-08 and a Sendero II in 300 WinMag. When I'm on my A game, and I have the right hand load, I shoot one hole groups with the CDL at 100 yards. It's one of my deer rifles. Skinny barrel, but good for about five shots before the groups open up and I have to let it cool. The Sendero I just got two weeks ago. The guy I bought it from bought it new a few years ago, had a decent scope put on it, and put it away. I bought the rig from him for $800. Came with two boxes of factory ammo. Ran 20 through her today. If the trigger wasn't so heavy I could have gotten better than the 3" group I shot with 20 rounds. She's at the smith now, getting threaded for a brake and getting the trigger down from over 8 pounds to 4 or 3. It's a bit punishing from the bench, but I'll keep working at it. That said, finding good used 700Ps at reasonable prices isn't that hard.

Jim