Remington SPS tactical issues

I

idahowitzer

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Full Member
Minuteman
May 10, 2011
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Boise, ID
#1
Folks-

I have been "lurking" on this forum for quite some time and feel that I have received more than I could ever give.

Recently, I purchased a Remington 700 SPS tactical. It rides in a Bell and Carlson Medalist stock, topped with a SWFA 10x42SS scope on Leupold rings and mounts. Shooting off a harris bipod and a bag in the rear.

The rifle patterns like a shotgun with everything I have tried. On average I'm getting 2-3 and even 4 MOA with all loads. I have tried 147 gr - 180 gr of every brand out there and have fired approx 200 rounds trying to find the "right" load before I get reloading components. I can't get repeatable results with ANYTHING. One time I shot a .9MOA group with 168 gr matchkings but was unable to repeat it.

I'll cut the crap and say I know it's not ME- but it IS the rifle. I have shot competitively with small-bore and have fired plenty of high power rifles. JUST TO CHECK- I have had several other competent shooters try their best with the same 2-3 MOA results.

I suspect it is one of two things, but will admit I could be totally wrong.
1. The scope is a lemon- (generally a Leupold fan). I took a major leap of faith buying the SWFA SS based on nothing but good online reviews.
2. There is an issue with headspace (Which I know little about)

The bolt face is covered in brass. It looked like this after 40 rounds. Could this suggest bad headspace?
226883_10150237899945987_538170986_8761656_6435669_n.jpg


Thanks for any help. It's pretty frustrating buying a mid-priced rifle that shoots like a nagant with wolf ammo.

Phil
 
#2
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

Hey mate. My first post here as well and like you I've learnt more than I can give.

I have an SPS 308 and mine does not look anything like that after 10 rounds or 100 rounds. Mine stays dark / carbon colour. I'm no engineer but you may have a mechanical issue. I get about 1 MOA and I've only just got back into shooting. I run a decent scope (March 2.5 - 25 x 42) but i hear SS are very good so I doubt it's that. What a about mounts and rings? Are they Decent quality or cheapies. I've seen some decent scopes and rifles let down by these.
 
#4
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

Something is wrong. I've got hundreds of rounds through and don't have any brass on the bolt. Mine is like most of them less than MOA. Repost this in Gunsmithing
 
#5
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

How does the face of the brass look?? Does the bolt lock up easily or do you have to force it? If you think you have a headspace issue i would find a smith or someone familiar with go and no-go gauges.

You said you replaced the stock, did you bed it? Is the barrel floating in the barrel channel?

If all your optics and mounts seem secure and are operating properly i would check your stock to see if it's inducing any stress on your barrel and go from there.
 
#7
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

My 700p bolt face looks like that after shooting and I have had no problems with accuracy. It shoots about an inch with everything except for Remington premier match 168gr at .30 av. Always wondered why the bolt face looked like that but with the groups it shoots never really worries about it.
+1 for checking the stock. Was pillar blocks installed and was it bedded barrel free floated. Also improper torque of the stock can do this. But without pillar blocks and bedding the stock it will flex and you torque will be affected. All factory remington rifles including sps,700 police amd the milspec 5r are throated deep. Remington does not want hand loaders getting to close to the lands because this causes faster throat wear and people complaining the rifles won't shoot. This is what u was told by Remington anyways. Check the stock and have it properly bedded if it is not before you get too far. Having a good rifle smith check the chamber would be a good idea aswell. hope this helped.
 
#8
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

Another idea, heard someone on the hide that had their scope mounted too low and with the flip up caps it was touching the barrel. Just another place to check. If you have a smith check it have him check the crown to.
 
#10
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

I didnt see it posted above or might have looked over it, but did you buy new or used?

I'd send it back to where you got it, or have a qualified gunsmith in your area check it out.
 
#11
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

If it were me, I would bring it to a good smith and ask them to take a look at it. Someone who really knows their stuff may be able to identify the underlying cause of your accuracy woes.
 
#12
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

For me, build up of brass on the bolt face like that is usually a sign of improperly sized cases (i.e. the bolt is needed to be forced shut on the unfired round) or too hot a load (sticky bolt on opening). Both cases could leave brass residue on the bolt face.
Either of these things an issue?

Regarding accuracy check your stock bedding and all fasteners. Swap out the scope for one that is proven OK. The SPS's can seriously suck if the wrong bullet is used. However my suggestion would be to try and work up a 168 Match King with Varget load - nothing fancy, it's pretty much the default load for Rem 700.
 
#13
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

I have a relatively new SPS-Tac and I have the same buildup on my bolt face. Now I do not shoot factory match ammo, because I reload my own. So the only factory ammo I shoot is white box stuff, (winchester and Remington) only for fouling shots and to reuse the brass. Now to my point, the same white box stuff that will hit around 1" in my SPS-V 26" bbl, will pattern in my SPS-Tac. So do not lose hope.

Now for the good news, I worked up some Hornady 150 FMJBT with 46gn of Ramshot Tac and consistently shot sub MOA, with an occasional clover leaf. Also 168 A-max over 44.1 of TAC powder. is sub moa.

The 150's are travelling approx 2800 fps the 168 amax approx 2750 fps (if that helps) Not chrony'd, but extrapolated from bullet drop.


dsc03570z.jpg

By roggom at 2011-05-10
 
#14
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: roggom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a relatively new SPS-Tac and I have the same buildup on my bolt face. Now I do not shoot factory match ammo, because I reload my own. So the only factory ammo I shoot is white box stuff, (winchester and Remington) only for fouling shots and to reuse the brass. Now to my point, the same white box stuff that will hit around 1" in my SPS-V 26" bbl, will pattern in my SPS-Tac. So do not lose hope.

Now for the good news, I worked up some Hornady 150 FMJBT with 46gn of Ramshot Tac and consistently shot sub MOA, with an occasional clover leaf. Also 168 A-max over 44.1 of TAC powder. is sub moa.

The 150's are travelling approx 2800 fps the 168 amax approx 2750 fps (if that helps) Not chrony'd, but <span style="color: #FF0000">extrapolated </span>from bullet drop.


dsc03570z.jpg

By roggom at 2011-05-10 </div></div>

And "extrapolated" is definitely the word of the day.
grin.gif
 
#15
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

Scope is mounted solid.
Barrel is free floating,
The stock inlet is good and screws are not over or under-tightened.
It has a full aluminum bedding block.
Scope bell and everything else clears the barrel.


I think I'll have to take it to a smith. Boy it's going to be fun to find a good one now
wink.gif
 
#16
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

Good luck. My bolt face did have a lot of brass particles inthe beginning, I think its because of the rough matte finish. Its a lot better now after a few hundred rounds- its like its been polished down to a smooth surface. Also since its relatively new, have you tried tubbs bulletsyet before taking drastic and costly action? They work well for factory rifles.
 
#17
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

You might check your bolt handle to see it is not in contact with the stock inlet when fully closed.

I've had a couple aftermarket stocks that required a bit of opening to float the bolt handle.
 
#18
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

How does your muzzle crown look?? And did you buy it used or new?? If it was used how does the rifling look?

Even with crap ammo i've never gotten much worse than minute groups with my SPS when it was a original.
 
#19
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

I did have to do some inletting on the stock to get the bolt to free-float.
Everything on the rifle is brand new.
I have not tried tubbs bullets but I'm not trying to shrink 1" groups, I'm trying to shrink 3" groups.
The crown is beautiful

I'm going to give it 1 more whirl with Federal GMM and put it in front of a Marine Scout Sniper. The guy who reviewed the rifle on snipercentral was getting 3" groups till he switched to Federal GMM.

If that fails- the scope is off and back to SWFA and the rifle is going to the gunsmith.

Thanks for all the input guys.
Phil
 
#20
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

I've run mostly FGMM through my rifle (SPS-T ACC:SD in 308) and I'm getting that same brass on my bolt face. The rifle is shooting sub MOA though. I tried some crap ammo in it (Winchester Power Point) and off a clean bore to 4 fouled shots, the clean bore was almost 3 inches higher than the center of the 4 shot group, and the 4 shot group was almost 2" across. Next 5 shots were FGMM 175s and was a 0.8"group. Crap ammo will lead to crappy results.

If you're running FGMM and getting 3-4" groups, something is seriously wrong with the rifle or the scope. If you've got an extra known good scope, you might slap it on there to check.
 
#22
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

Good idea to get someone else to shoot it, but don't tell them the problem before hand. If they have the same results I'd suggest throw the leupold scope mount and rings out of your window while you cruise the highway and get a good quality picatinny rail and rings. Read up on how to bed the base if needed. Then try again. It sounds like there could be some movement from recoil that you can't feel by hand. If your worried about headspace brownells sells headspace gauges. Do a box test with the scope to see if it returns to zero. Yeah I mean the 2-3 inch zero if the new base and rings didn't fix it. Then take a closer look at the crown. Checking for burrs or pits. Sometimes people look at the crown only on the outside of the bore, which is about as usefull as a chick with a dick;) make sure all the rifling on the inside is uniform and this is where any pits or burrs would be. If it's like your zero shifts and returns then my money would be on the base and rings.
 
#24
Re: Remington SPS tactical issues

My rifle shoots like shit when there is copper fouling. Look at the crown area and see if you spot any copper. What happens with factory barrel the rifling and grooves are ruff because its a production barrel not a match barrel and the first few hundred round will foul up the rifle pretty bad until its polished for shooting rounds through it, but copper must be removed in the process. Also post some pics of the casings if possible and one more thing if you have a camera that can zoom in and focus really good try to get a pic of the inside of the barrel from the crown area.
 
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