Hunting & Fishing Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
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Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
I have always heard that the SMKs are hit or miss on their performance on deer. I have never used one because of that. I saw a test a while back where someone shot a roast with SMKs and it looked like it did plenty of damage. How did the wound channel look in the deer?
I have always heard that the SMKs are hit or miss on their performance on deer. I have never used one because of that. I saw a test a while back where someone shot a roast with SMKs and it looked like it did plenty of damage. How did the wound channel look in the deer?
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
A LOT can be said about bullet placement too. What was your distance an where'd ya hit'm. Any pics? (Im sure it'll be asked at some point...plus its fun to tell more of the story)
A LOT can be said about bullet placement too. What was your distance an where'd ya hit'm. Any pics? (Im sure it'll be asked at some point...plus its fun to tell more of the story)
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always heard that the SMKs are hit or miss on their performance on deer. </div></div>
Its actually hit or miss with any bullet, if you hit it right, they go down. If you miss, or hit them poorly, they may never go down.
I have used match bullets exclusively for the last eight or nine animals, I'd be hard pressed to believe a "game" bullet would/could have done it any better. As always, shot placement is far more important that the type of bullet used.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always heard that the SMKs are hit or miss on their performance on deer. </div></div>
Its actually hit or miss with any bullet, if you hit it right, they go down. If you miss, or hit them poorly, they may never go down.
I have used match bullets exclusively for the last eight or nine animals, I'd be hard pressed to believe a "game" bullet would/could have done it any better. As always, shot placement is far more important that the type of bullet used.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always heard that the SMKs are hit or miss on their performance on deer. </div></div>
Its actually hit or miss with any bullet, if you hit it right, they go down. If you miss, or hit them poorly, they may never go down.
I have used match bullets exclusively for the last eight or nine animals, I'd be hard pressed to believe a "game" bullet would/could have done it any better. As always, shot placement is far more important that the type of bullet used. </div></div>
I agree. I shoot Nosler Partitions most of the time for hunting loads, and have had great results including shots through the shoulder, and direct hits on ribs. I guess I was thinking of how the SMK does if it hits bone, etc., and what kind of internal damage it does.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdBoreMiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NSO123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have always heard that the SMKs are hit or miss on their performance on deer. </div></div>
Its actually hit or miss with any bullet, if you hit it right, they go down. If you miss, or hit them poorly, they may never go down.
I have used match bullets exclusively for the last eight or nine animals, I'd be hard pressed to believe a "game" bullet would/could have done it any better. As always, shot placement is far more important that the type of bullet used. </div></div>
I agree. I shoot Nosler Partitions most of the time for hunting loads, and have had great results including shots through the shoulder, and direct hits on ribs. I guess I was thinking of how the SMK does if it hits bone, etc., and what kind of internal damage it does.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
I've never had a problem with the 190 SMK's or 175's on deer or antelope. I've had the bullets pass through with severe damage on the off-side and lots of internal damage and I've had some remain within the animal. Shot distances of 100-500 yds. None have gone further than 50-75 yards IIRC. Shot placement is critical with any bullet. I will continue to use the SMK's. I always go for a good double lung shot as that gives me the best margin for error, especially in a field situation.
Geb
I've never had a problem with the 190 SMK's or 175's on deer or antelope. I've had the bullets pass through with severe damage on the off-side and lots of internal damage and I've had some remain within the animal. Shot distances of 100-500 yds. None have gone further than 50-75 yards IIRC. Shot placement is critical with any bullet. I will continue to use the SMK's. I always go for a good double lung shot as that gives me the best margin for error, especially in a field situation.
Geb
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
It's all about bullet placement but your sample size of 2 is far from adequate for "removing any doubt of smk's on deer". And yes, I have and do use match bullets on deer on occasion. I prefer to use hunting bullets (most of the time) due to the amount of variables that you have no control over in a hunting situation.
It's all about bullet placement but your sample size of 2 is far from adequate for "removing any doubt of smk's on deer". And yes, I have and do use match bullets on deer on occasion. I prefer to use hunting bullets (most of the time) due to the amount of variables that you have no control over in a hunting situation.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
I have hit bone; ribs, shoulders, necks, skulls, as well as nothing but flesh. In almost every case, the bullet did a perfect job.
While I have absolutely nothing against hunting bullets, I have seen cases of pretty much all of them failing; barnes, partitions, sst's, and just the old plain jane SP's. Surely any bullet can fail to expand. Therefore, the only thing we can rely on, is shot placement. Because even if a bullet fails to expand, if it perforates the heart. lungs, ect. then the animal is very likely to go down.
I have hit bone; ribs, shoulders, necks, skulls, as well as nothing but flesh. In almost every case, the bullet did a perfect job.
While I have absolutely nothing against hunting bullets, I have seen cases of pretty much all of them failing; barnes, partitions, sst's, and just the old plain jane SP's. Surely any bullet can fail to expand. Therefore, the only thing we can rely on, is shot placement. Because even if a bullet fails to expand, if it perforates the heart. lungs, ect. then the animal is very likely to go down.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement, is where it is at.
We did some rather extensive testing a couple years ago, shooting dozens of animals ( WT deer, mainly does, some spikes ) all around 400 yards, with 12 different kinds of bullets. All in 300 WM, with very trained shooters. All shots were intended as broadside, thru both front shoulders, as we were trying to retain some bullets if possible, and keep lost animals down to minimum. Only 2 were lost, both with same bullet, one was at 700+ yards to be fair, but good blood was on the ground where it was hit, animal not recovered, despite 2 hour search.
Almost all were DRT. A few did go a few yards, but that was the exception. We did have one bullet failure, that being a blowup on a shoulder, did not exit, but animal went down all the same. Our conclusion was that you can just about shoot any bullet out there, and kill deer/sheep reliably, with good shot placement.
The only case for "premium" bullets is with dangerous or African type game, things that are big and tough, or bite back. Myself, I like the TSX for that, others like partitions, or sledgehammers. We have had NUMEROUS blowups, lost animals and generally poor luck with the ballistic tip Winchesters, particularly in fast magnum calibers. One very expensive sheep comes to mind, shot in shoulder with 300 WSM, ran off. Hunted for next six days (high fence 5000 acre pasture ) to get a second shot, this time with TSX. The ballistic tip apparently exploded on contact, a superficial wound, with fragments of the bullet recovered from as far away as the jaw. Not a fan of those.
As far as the TSX, they are good, but not infallible. Witness the below 7MM TSX from my SIL's gemsbok:
Animal dropped at the shot, bullet ( obviously ) did not exit. Our OPINION is that it hit a twig enroute, as the shot was thru a bit of brush, from about 70 yards. I've seen this a couple times, our thoughts are that it yaws from the twig and impacts a bit sideways, preventing the tip from opening up. For your further entertainment, I had this bullet mounted to a gold chain, and we gave it to her for her birthday a few days ago. DOn't have a pic of that though.
As for the title of this thread, I didn't think there was any doubt SMK's kill. Hundreds of hajis can testify to that!!!
Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement, Shot placement, is where it is at.
We did some rather extensive testing a couple years ago, shooting dozens of animals ( WT deer, mainly does, some spikes ) all around 400 yards, with 12 different kinds of bullets. All in 300 WM, with very trained shooters. All shots were intended as broadside, thru both front shoulders, as we were trying to retain some bullets if possible, and keep lost animals down to minimum. Only 2 were lost, both with same bullet, one was at 700+ yards to be fair, but good blood was on the ground where it was hit, animal not recovered, despite 2 hour search.
Almost all were DRT. A few did go a few yards, but that was the exception. We did have one bullet failure, that being a blowup on a shoulder, did not exit, but animal went down all the same. Our conclusion was that you can just about shoot any bullet out there, and kill deer/sheep reliably, with good shot placement.
The only case for "premium" bullets is with dangerous or African type game, things that are big and tough, or bite back. Myself, I like the TSX for that, others like partitions, or sledgehammers. We have had NUMEROUS blowups, lost animals and generally poor luck with the ballistic tip Winchesters, particularly in fast magnum calibers. One very expensive sheep comes to mind, shot in shoulder with 300 WSM, ran off. Hunted for next six days (high fence 5000 acre pasture ) to get a second shot, this time with TSX. The ballistic tip apparently exploded on contact, a superficial wound, with fragments of the bullet recovered from as far away as the jaw. Not a fan of those.
As far as the TSX, they are good, but not infallible. Witness the below 7MM TSX from my SIL's gemsbok:
Animal dropped at the shot, bullet ( obviously ) did not exit. Our OPINION is that it hit a twig enroute, as the shot was thru a bit of brush, from about 70 yards. I've seen this a couple times, our thoughts are that it yaws from the twig and impacts a bit sideways, preventing the tip from opening up. For your further entertainment, I had this bullet mounted to a gold chain, and we gave it to her for her birthday a few days ago. DOn't have a pic of that though.
As for the title of this thread, I didn't think there was any doubt SMK's kill. Hundreds of hajis can testify to that!!!
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
I did not take pics but I still have the carcass so I can show some of the damage. The shots were close 100yds and 125yds. From an elevated stand. The first was a yearling that came out and the second was a doe. I was sitting with my Dad because his health is not good and I do not know how much time we have together. He said he was watching these two every evening and the little one comes out first followed by the bigger one a few minutes later. Well the little one came out and after 7mins the big one still had not appeared. Last evening of season with two tags means you quit being picky. I put the crosshairs on the little one and just as I clicked the safety off my Dad says the doe is coming out of the wood line. I swing the LRP over and put the crosshairs on her neck (her neck was turned so she was facing me head on but her head was turned so it was a broadside of the neck). When I pull the trigger she buckles, DRT, no movement. The other one looks back at her as I swing the LRP back to him and put the crosshairs right behind the last rib (quartering away). I pull the trigger and he drops DRT, no movement.
First deer had tiny entrance in the side of the neck and the bullet it busted the bottom of the spine apart and the bullet came apart in the neck just aboe the far side shoulder. Massive damage in the tissue and bone of the neck.
Deer number two the entrance was a tiny hole in the last rib where it appears the bullet split in two large pieces one following the rib cage breaking every rib on that side. The other piece went through the heart and lungs into the neck on the opposite side. Again massive damage without an exit. These seem to perform just like heavy a Vmax. Lots of damage no exit.
I did not take pics but I still have the carcass so I can show some of the damage. The shots were close 100yds and 125yds. From an elevated stand. The first was a yearling that came out and the second was a doe. I was sitting with my Dad because his health is not good and I do not know how much time we have together. He said he was watching these two every evening and the little one comes out first followed by the bigger one a few minutes later. Well the little one came out and after 7mins the big one still had not appeared. Last evening of season with two tags means you quit being picky. I put the crosshairs on the little one and just as I clicked the safety off my Dad says the doe is coming out of the wood line. I swing the LRP over and put the crosshairs on her neck (her neck was turned so she was facing me head on but her head was turned so it was a broadside of the neck). When I pull the trigger she buckles, DRT, no movement. The other one looks back at her as I swing the LRP back to him and put the crosshairs right behind the last rib (quartering away). I pull the trigger and he drops DRT, no movement.
First deer had tiny entrance in the side of the neck and the bullet it busted the bottom of the spine apart and the bullet came apart in the neck just aboe the far side shoulder. Massive damage in the tissue and bone of the neck.
Deer number two the entrance was a tiny hole in the last rib where it appears the bullet split in two large pieces one following the rib cage breaking every rib on that side. The other piece went through the heart and lungs into the neck on the opposite side. Again massive damage without an exit. These seem to perform just like heavy a Vmax. Lots of damage no exit.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
I had a barnes X fail on me. Shot in shoulder quartering towards me. Biggest buck I had seen in a long time. Buck drops and rolls on side. I celebrate and damn thing rolls back up and runs down hill barely any blood. Searched for a day and found nothing. 5 days later the neighbors shot him 5 times with Nosler BTips to kill him. My X was a bent banana. Shot distance was 30 yards from a 7mag 3350fps.
Shit happens I guess.
I had a barnes X fail on me. Shot in shoulder quartering towards me. Biggest buck I had seen in a long time. Buck drops and rolls on side. I celebrate and damn thing rolls back up and runs down hill barely any blood. Searched for a day and found nothing. 5 days later the neighbors shot him 5 times with Nosler BTips to kill him. My X was a bent banana. Shot distance was 30 yards from a 7mag 3350fps.
Shit happens I guess.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
I had no idea that SMKs are so effective on deer. Thank you for the knowledge everyone.
I had no idea that SMKs are so effective on deer. Thank you for the knowledge everyone.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Infinity</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had no idea that SMKs are so effective on deer. Thank you for the knowledge everyone. </div></div>
Post much? 30 bumps in Less than six hours. Do you have something to sell now that you broke 100?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Infinity</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had no idea that SMKs are so effective on deer. Thank you for the knowledge everyone. </div></div>
Post much? 30 bumps in Less than six hours. Do you have something to sell now that you broke 100?
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
SMK's are not reliable, I don't care what anybody says. I've shot several deer with them where they have just poked through. Even ones the had hit bones didn't hit bone or fragment, little hole in, little hole out. The good news was all the deer were recovered and there was very little meat damage.
The bullets I've had function as they should 100% of the time are AMAX, Lapua Scenar, Hornady interlock, SGK, Core Lokt, Fusion, Power Shock, Swift scirocco, and I'm sure I'm missing a few more. There are Many bullets I've never used that I'm sure also work great for deer sized game but the point is with all the good choices out there I see no reason to chance it with the SMK.
SMK's are not reliable, I don't care what anybody says. I've shot several deer with them where they have just poked through. Even ones the had hit bones didn't hit bone or fragment, little hole in, little hole out. The good news was all the deer were recovered and there was very little meat damage.
The bullets I've had function as they should 100% of the time are AMAX, Lapua Scenar, Hornady interlock, SGK, Core Lokt, Fusion, Power Shock, Swift scirocco, and I'm sure I'm missing a few more. There are Many bullets I've never used that I'm sure also work great for deer sized game but the point is with all the good choices out there I see no reason to chance it with the SMK.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
Well, my hunting learnings of do and don'ts have had me switch from SMK's to the swift scirracco and accubonds for my magnums and been using v-max's for my varmit stuff. Not worring about varmit really but the SMK in my opinion in the worst bullet I have used on deer. 2 out of 6 did what it wasn't supposed to do. And thats good being they werent designed for game. The 2 I speak of actually killed the deer DRT. Not the bullets fault as every bullet shot hit with pin point accuracy in the vitals but only 2 did the job right the first time. We and a freind tracked good blood along ways until we made it to a large creek and lost the animals. Never found em. My fault for using SMK's if others have good luck with em. Use em, thats on you. I wish you the best. But my luck has been bad luck. (Deer were shot with 142SMK's at 300 yds out of a .260 rem custom rifle.)
Well, my hunting learnings of do and don'ts have had me switch from SMK's to the swift scirracco and accubonds for my magnums and been using v-max's for my varmit stuff. Not worring about varmit really but the SMK in my opinion in the worst bullet I have used on deer. 2 out of 6 did what it wasn't supposed to do. And thats good being they werent designed for game. The 2 I speak of actually killed the deer DRT. Not the bullets fault as every bullet shot hit with pin point accuracy in the vitals but only 2 did the job right the first time. We and a freind tracked good blood along ways until we made it to a large creek and lost the animals. Never found em. My fault for using SMK's if others have good luck with em. Use em, thats on you. I wish you the best. But my luck has been bad luck. (Deer were shot with 142SMK's at 300 yds out of a .260 rem custom rifle.)
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SMK's are not reliable, I don't care what anybody says. </div></div> Speaking in absolutes is dangerous, or at least inaccurate. Surely your's is just a sliver of experience seen by the whole of the hunting public. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The bullets I've had function as they should 100% of the time are AMAX, Lapua Scenar, Hornady interlock, SGK, Core Lokt, Fusion, Power Shock, Swift scirocco, and I'm sure I'm missing a few more.</div></div> Funny how so many of the bullets you mention have been sworn by others to be poor performers. Thats why I said earlier, we have to look at it as a whole, not just one person's experience.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are Many bullets I've never used that I'm sure also work great for deer sized game but the point is with all the good choices out there I see no reason to chance it with the SMK.</div></div> The other point I would like to mention is when most of us shoot either Amax's or SMK's for competition, why mess with variables for the 1-4 or more shots we take a year at deer,elk, ect. when we can just shoot the same bullets always and not have to worry about POI shifts and different dope.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SMK's are not reliable, I don't care what anybody says. </div></div> Speaking in absolutes is dangerous, or at least inaccurate. Surely your's is just a sliver of experience seen by the whole of the hunting public. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The bullets I've had function as they should 100% of the time are AMAX, Lapua Scenar, Hornady interlock, SGK, Core Lokt, Fusion, Power Shock, Swift scirocco, and I'm sure I'm missing a few more.</div></div> Funny how so many of the bullets you mention have been sworn by others to be poor performers. Thats why I said earlier, we have to look at it as a whole, not just one person's experience.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are Many bullets I've never used that I'm sure also work great for deer sized game but the point is with all the good choices out there I see no reason to chance it with the SMK.</div></div> The other point I would like to mention is when most of us shoot either Amax's or SMK's for competition, why mess with variables for the 1-4 or more shots we take a year at deer,elk, ect. when we can just shoot the same bullets always and not have to worry about POI shifts and different dope.
Re: Removing any doubt of SMKs on deer
BTW, there is a whole thread dedicated to SMK kills, and its full of dead animals who dropped in their tracks.
BTW, there is a whole thread dedicated to SMK kills, and its full of dead animals who dropped in their tracks.
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