repeat load dev if adding a suppressor?

[sacklunch]

Have a load im pretty happy with on my 6cm…spent more barrel life than I’d have liked after switching bullets after breakin and an extra 100 down the tube that just wouldn’t shoot. Dialed now and happy, but that means 300 rnds on the barrel and I’m just starting to shoot it for fun. Supressor for it just came in…what’s the best gameplan? do I need to load up some charge weights .2-.4 grains or so above and below my current load to account for potential speed changes to stay in that node? Roughly 25fps or so faster is typical with a suppressor? Do I chrono it first and look to hit that speed again? Or is that node no more with the change in weight on the end of barrel?

I don’t mind spending some more powder on it if need be, but range trips for me are at best every few weeks and I’m not sure where to start for my text trip, was hoping to just shoot it and be done, but hate to load up 50 or so at same charge and have it now group like garbage.

Also, can suppressors have a positive or negative impact on SD too or mainly just groups?

It’s a TBAC if that matters, seems some cans develop more pressure than others and can effect loads more? Not sure where TBAC falls..I’ll plead ignorance.

Thanks

 

[simonp]

I don’t have a suppressor (Kalifornia) but I know adding / changing breaks meant some tuning of loads so I’m going to guess yes you’ll need some tuning.

 

[alamo5000]

Generally speaking you won't have to touch the load at all. Velocity is not going to change by any significant amount. You MIGHT see something in the low single digits but that's it. That's also assuming you have a perfect load going on.

As far as shift goes there are a number of things that can happen. If your can uses a muzzle device, I've seen it happen when the actual muzzle device is not mounted square. That will give you huge points of impact shift when you add a suppressor.

Another thing is the attachment method. If it doesn't have positive lock up in the same orientation each time you can see issues come up. For example some of the QD systems are built for speed not accuracy. Some of them even let the suppressor dance around with a little bit of play in it.

So if you have a system where the suppressor is in the exact same orientation each time you will see an impact shift from non suppressed to suppressed.

Lots of factors involved so this is just a few.

 

[sacklunch]

Generally speaking you won't have to touch the load at all. Velocity is not going to change by any significant amount. You MIGHT see something in the low single digits but that's it. That's also assuming you have a perfect load going on.

As far as shift goes there are a number of things that can happen. If your can uses a muzzle device, I've seen it happen when the actual muzzle device is not mounted square. That will give you huge points of impact shift when you add a suppressor.

Another thing is the attachment method. If it doesn't have positive lock up in the same orientation each time you can see issues come up. For example some of the QD systems are built for speed not accuracy. Some of them even let the suppressor dance around with a little bit of play in it.

So if you have a system where the suppressor is in the exact same orientation each time you will see an impact shift from non suppressed to suppressed.

Lots of factors involved so this is just a few.

Thanks, good info! Never thought about the potential change in POI ever time I remove the can and thread it back on. Hopefully the CB/Ultra 7 mounts up square enough each time it’s a non factor. Would love to not have to re-zero each time I love the can from rifle to rifle and back…assuming it’s not an issue from all of the TBAC praise I’ve read for years.

 

[db2000]

You’ll have a POI change for your suppressor. Always. Sometimes minimal sometimes 1.5 MIL.
I didn’t read the whole post, sorry. But this is what will happen.
Just count on it for first cold shot. Some will swear by certain POI change with certain suppressors. You’ll find out. It’s often consistent so at least you can count on on it. Just do the data/trials.

 

[sacklunch]

You’ll have a POI change for your suppressor. Always. Sometimes minimal sometimes 1.5 MIL.
I didn’t read the whole post, sorry. But this is what will happen.
Just count on it for first cold shot. Some will swear by certain POI change with certain suppressors. You’ll find out. It’s often consistent so at least you can count on on it. Just do the data/trials.

I think the previous poster was talking about a differing POI change potential for each time you snug the can on it it’s not a consistent mount. I hadn’t thought of that. Understood there will be a POI change from shooting braked to suppressed but hoping one zero’s with a can that zero hold each time I move it off the rifle and back? Same can going from my hunting rifle to my target rifle

 

[db2000]

I think the previous poster was talking about a differing POI change potential for each time you snug the can on it it’s not a consistent mount. I hadn’t thought of that. Understood there will be a POI change from shooting braked to suppressed but hoping one zero’s with a can that zero hold each time I move it off the rifle and back? Same can going from my hunting rifle to my target rifle

Ahhhh. Sorry. Misunderstood. Definitely brake to can POI shift but mine is very consistent with SiCo Omega. Definitely a lot of reports TBAC and others consistent as well with the can and same brake. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I don’t have any experience except with SiCo and the same brake, they are very consistent.

 

[NiteQwill]

I shoot many TBACs and a Maverick for comps and rarely have more than 1 mrad change.

TBAC have one of the most, if not VERY MOST, consistent suppressors for precision.

I have never changed my load between suppressed (98%) and unsuppressed (when I have to travel to communist states) matches.

 

[db2000]

Yeah, my SiCo are consistent on and off but definitely 1.5 MIL from the brake though. I keep data recorded. Up and to the left mostly. 1.5 mil usually. I just document it. Makes it sketchy for an animal kill although I’ve not had miss, still always on my mind. Makes me second guess why I’m using the suppressor when actually not really necessary I feel. I guess I’m just trying to be consistent. Always shoot suppressed so…

 

[Aftermath]

I have several TBAC and use their brake mounts. The brakes stay mounted all of the time.

On my 223 Ackley, I have almost exactly .3 mil POI change, vertical, very consistent, when the Ultra 7 223 is added. I attribute this to 2 things, the weight changing the harmonics and the added "barrel length" created by the suppressor. Yes, I realize it's not adding 7 inches.

On the 30 cal, there is no POI change with the 300WINMAG or the 30NOSLER.

338 Lapua Magnum Improved has a full MOA vertical. Similar to the 223. With the suppressor, it impacts high but it impacts there every single time.

22LR there is no POI change.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

You will have to shoot it to really know but I doubt you will see any significant shift from having the can on one day and having the can back on the next day. When we all start getting cans, we start out planning on one or two and using them on several rifles.... at some point, we all figure out that leaving the can dedicated to that rifle makes a lot of things easier and do that if we can and when we can. That said, it takes forever and a day to get the dang things and they are very expensive so, I understand the need to move em around. In that case, with a good mount and can (just like what you have)
, the can will generally go back in the same exact clocking on the rifle and the rifle will shoot with the same zero, assuming the same conditions. Thats my experience with them.

 

[Painterbolt]

It all depends. I have an older yankee hill direct threat that moves my point of impact up about .6 and .2 to the right. Groups open up a little but not much. Just got a Maverick and my point of impact stays the same and groups don’t change at all.

 

[sacklunch]

I have several TBAC and use their brake mounts. The brakes stay mounted all of the time.

On my 223 Ackley, I have almost exactly .3 mil POI change, vertical, very consistent, when the Ultra 7 223 is added. I attribute this to 2 things, the weight changing the harmonics and the added "barrel length" created by the suppressor. Yes, I realize it's not adding 7 inches.

On the 30 cal, there is no POI change with the 300WINMAG or the 30NOSLER.

338 Lapua Magnum Improved has a full MOA vertical. Similar to the 223. With the suppressor, it impacts high but it impacts there every single time.

22LR there is no POI change.

Thanks, but not really a thread about POI change…this is about load dev or needing to tune when adding a suppressor to a rifle when an already tuned load.

 

[Aftermath]

Thanks, but not really a thread about POI change…this is about load dev or needing to tune when adding a suppressor to a rifle when an already tuned load.

Right.
Well, glean between the lines.
No change in ammo and only a POI shift, or none at all.

 

[sacklunch]

Right.
Well, glean between the lines.
No change in ammo and only a POI shift, or none at all.

POI shift from weight is not the same as a speed change with a suppressor. Faster MV and added weight could produce two separate variables…one potentially requiring just a new zero, one may or may not requiring load to be tuned. although gathering it’s not common to have to tune, just re-zero…but hense the the question on tuning not on POI shift that is just a zero change.

 

[375fan]

I have/use multiple suppressors on a variety of cartridges. I've never had an accuracy or pressure issue when developing a load without a can on and then using a can. POI will change slightly. Learned all this when I first started getting cans.
Now I develop loads with new barrels or cartridges with the can on. Take can off and only poi changes.

 

[Aftermath]

POI shift from weight is not the same as a speed change with a suppressor. Faster MV and added weight could produce two separate variables…one potentially requiring just a new zero, one may or may not requiring load to be tuned. although gathering it’s not common to have to tune, just re-zero…but hense the the question on tuning not on POI shift that is just a zero change.

Perzakly