Report: Titanic Sub’s Electrical System Designed by College Students

[PatMiles]

Report: Titanic Sub's Electrical System Designed by College Students

College interns designed the electrical system of the Titan submarine that imploded last month, killing all five passengers, a report says.

www.breitbart.com

College interns designed the electrical system of the Titan submarine that imploded last month, killing all five passengers, according to a report.
OceanGate hired Washington State University Everett students to work on critical systems of the submersible, the New Yorker reported.
“The whole electrical system — that was our design, we implemented it, and it works,” former intern Mark Walsh told the school paper. “We are on the precipice of making history and all of our systems are going down to the Titanic. It is an awesome feeling!” he added.
Walsh was treasurer of WSU Everett’s Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers Club when OceanGate’s director of engineering, Tony Nissen, offered him an internship.
Walsh opened the door for fellow classmates to intern with OceanGate, and he landed a full-time position after graduating in 2017 as electrical engineering lead at OceanGate.
“I like that we have a close relationship with WSU Everett because the interns have been so great,” Walsh said. “They’ve been taught right at WSU Everett, so this summer we’re going to be hiring more.”

“OceanGate also used interns from Everett Community College’s Ocean Research College Academy, but the school stopped offering internships with the company in 2019, according to the Herald,” the New York Post reported.

The summer following the publication of the article in the school’s paper, Ocean Gate’s former director of marine operations, David Lochridge, called the submersible a “lemon.”

Lochridge was fired in January 2018 after raising “critical safety concerns regarding OceanGate’s experimental and untested design of the Titan,” Breitbart reported.

Deep-sea exploration specialist Rob McCallum contacted Lochridge after he was terminated.

“I’d be keen to pick your brain if you have a few moments,” McCallum wrote in an email, according to the New Yorker. “I’m keen to get a handle on exactly how bad things are. I do get reports, but I don’t know if they are accurate.”

Lochridge feared publicly decrying Rush due to his “influence” and “money.”

“I think you are going to [be] even more taken aback when I tell you what’s happening,” Lochridge wrote. “That sub is Not safe to dive.”

 

[acudaowner]

that's far better than I was thinking I assumed it was assembled by 9 year olds from India following direction written in Chinese . held together with bubble gum and bailing twine . and some dumb ass rich person paid tons of money to ride in when Gilligan was able to do the same thing with two coconuts this one is a plastic bucket but it's about the same idea

 

[NoDopes]

Have the engineers that designed the actual sub been fully redacted?

 

[DocRDS]

My initial thought was it isn't as bad as it sounds, but some of the details brought me back to reality.

My thinking was I built world class equipment as a college student, however I was a graduate student working with my advisor. Graduate students are several steps ahead of undergrad interns. (And a little humble brag, I may not have even been a typical grad student--some of the ones I get now leave a lot to be desired)

And unless your specialty is high reliability electrical systems, you probably still have a shit ton to learn about production ready systems.
Mine was hand made one of a kind. Def not production ready.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Out of only a small handful of reasons, why would a guy like Rush hire interns ?

hint; It was something else, disguised by Rush as benevolence.

 

[Threadcutter308]

“OceanGate also used interns from Everett Community College’s Ocean Research College Academy, but the school stopped offering internships with the company in 2019, according to the Herald,” the New York Post reported.

Very Interesting. Now just why would that be ?

 

[Jgunner]

“OceanGate also used interns from Everett Community College’s Ocean Research College Academy, but the school stopped offering internships with the company in 2019, according to the Herald,” the New York Post reported.

Very Interesting. Now just why would that be ?

Ill take a stab at that! Ill go out on a limb and say he was wanting to stab them, with his limb.

 

[slowworm]

I work with college interns a fair bit, and they can do good work, sometimes very good work. The issue here is not "Designed by interns", but a question of who their mentors were, how their work was validated and assessed, and the scope of the tasks being assigned.

This being Oceangate, I would guess they weren't mentored, no qualified engineer guided the tasks and reviewed them, and the tasks were not appropriate.

Working with interns takes time out of my day, but someone has to teach the young 'uns how to do real work.

 

[UKDslayer]

I work with college interns a fair bit, and they can do good work, sometimes very good work. The issue here is not "Designed by interns", but a question of who their mentors were, how their work was validated and assessed, and the scope of the tasks being assigned.

This being Washington State Uni - is a possibility those students were high as a kite.

 

[Threadcutter308]

This being Washington State Uni - is a possibility those students were high as a kite.

You're thinking of the head campus in Pullman, WA. This campus is in Everett, WA. I'm sure there's no correlation.........

 

[Pharmseller]

Average age of NASA engineers in 1969 was 28.

Just sayin’.




P

 

[BCP]

I'm amazed that hunk of shit made it to the Titanic at least twice before it imploded.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I'm amazed that hunk of shit made it to the Titanic at least twice before it imploded.

I understand that Camperworld is considering hiring Alissa Heinerscheid for an Ad Campaign;

"Our lighted grab bars have been to the Titanic, mostly successfully"............

 

[Maggot]

Average age of NASA engineers in 1969 was 28.

Just sayin’.




P

I'd guess most of them were not 'interns' but masters or PhD's.

 

[Pharmseller]

I'd guess most of them were not 'interns' but masters or PhD's.

And I’ll bet the interns knew as much as or more than the NASA engineers.




P

 

[JoshPutman]

In 1969 people weren't so fucking stupid, either.

 

[alpine44]

We have a significant amount of designs and calculations done by interns and/or recent graduates at the company I work for. These outputs are then discussed and evaluated in teams that include more experienced specialist. Production is also involved in this process of critique and refinement. When the team is satisfied, it goes to critical design review by the HMFIC of engineering. Then, the test pilots have their say, unless they were already called in earlier. Finally, the FAA reviews and signs off. Then, and only then "design of interns", scrutinized and improved by plenty of greybeards, will take to the air.

The overarching mantra is:

"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." Captain Alfred Gilmer 'Lamps' Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London. circa early 1930.

Rush fell victim to the false dichotomy of young (typically cheap) rule breakers vs experienced (typically expensive) rule enforcers. You need both. You need to dare, just not too much.

 

[Ronws]

Look, I can simplify it. Just put all the wires in one big blue wire nut and see what lights up.

 

[Nik H]

CEO was an idiot. Made statements several times about the skipping safety certification testing because lengthened the design process and held them back.

Karma is a bitch

 

[vh20]

And I’ll bet the interns knew as much as or more than the NASA engineers.




P

Why?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

As A “College student,” I could show you how to take down a building using a sparkler,
Cremona, a Bic lighter and a rat trap….

Just because they are college students doesn’t Mean they aren’t capable of designing an electrical system for a pool toy!!

Sirhr

 

[Pharmseller]

Why?

Because the NASA engineers were breaking new ground at 28. Almost everything they did was new. These kids probably learned at 16 what the NASA engineers were discovering at 28.

Keep in mind the average iPhone of today has more computing power than all of NASA’s computers did in 1969, combined.

Be advised I did not say smarter. But they knew as much, or more.




P

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Average age of NASA engineers in 1969 was 28.

Just sayin’.




P

This is correct.

The average Age Of the engineering team that put Apollo on the Moon was 26. Rose a
Bit higher by 69. But the core team was 26.

They all said that they were too young to know it was impossible, so they just went ahead and did it.

Age has nothing to do with brilliance. Most
Mathematicians and scientists are finished by 35.

But age has everything to with being cocky and incompetent… but thanks to all the participation trophies… sure of my own infallibility….

So you end up with angered in subs and giant crypto giants imploding. Ahem…
FTX.

Nothing to see here…

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Because the NASA engineers were breaking new ground at 28. Almost everything they did was new. These kids probably learned at 16 what the NASA engineers were discovering at 28.

Keep in mind the average iPhone of today has more computing power than all of NASA’s computers did in 1969, combined.

Be advised I did not say smarter. But they knew as much, or more.




P

A first generation iWatch had more computing power than NASA 1969.

Apollo Was done with slide rulers.

Sirhr

PS… do we need to explain slide rules?!

 

[Pharmseller]

Not to me.

’Course we called them slipsticks.




P

 

[Lightning8]

Sheldon - "he is just an engineer". Should have used physicists.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Sheldon - "he is just an engineer". Should have used physicists.

Well, MIT is just sort of a big trade school.

Not as bad as Wisconsin, Though.

Sirhr

 

[Lightning8]

Well, MIT is just sort of a big trade school.

Not as bad as Wisconsin, Though.

Sirhr

MIT = Georgia Tech of the north

 

[alpine44]

And I’ll bet the interns knew as much as or more than the NASA engineers.




P

The problems do not lie in what you know but in what you do not know (to be relevant). Until the roof peeled off a pressurized airliner, nobody designing these things worried about fatigue even though material scientists were well aware of this Achilles heel of Aluminum alloys.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

MIT = Georgia Tech of the north

MIT=Clarkson of the South.

Damn unreconstructed rebels and their “new Math” diplomas….

Sirhr

 

[vh20]

Because the NASA engineers were breaking new ground at 28. Almost everything they did was new. These kids probably learned at 16 what the NASA engineers were discovering at 28.

Keep in mind the average iPhone of today has more computing power than all of NASA’s computers did in 1969, combined.

Be advised I did not say smarter. But they knew as much, or more.




P

Now I see. Your post above makes sense, but the preceding trade of quotes between you and Maggot makes it seem as though you were referring to interns at NASA in ‘69, since that’s what he meant.

 

[nikonNUT]

As A “College student,” I could show you how to take down a building using a sparkler,
Cremona, a Bic lighter and a rat trap….

Just because they are college students doesn’t Mean they aren’t capable of designing an electrical system for a pool toy!!

Sirhr

@sirhrmechanic Why exactly do I need a city from Italy to take down a building? Seems... counter intuitive unless you are dropping said city on said building. If that is the case you are gonna need a WAY bigger rat trap to flip the city on to the building...

P.S. Just messing with you man. I did the empty can and some creamer trick once or twice.

 

[Cardboard55]

Good, fast, cheap. Pick two.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Until the roof peeled off a pressurized airliner, nobody designing these things worried about fatigue even though material scientists were well aware of this Achilles heel of Aluminum alloys.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but........









It was difficult to quickly find older videos of fatigue testing and granted, all but the last video above are of "stress" testing. However, I am certain that fatigue testing has been taking place for many decades, at least back to the 50's when Boeing developed and released the 707. And, I don't know if they were even the first to do it.

 

[101st]

1st part of mission accomplished. To bad they couldn't complete the part of getting it back to the surface.

“The whole electrical system — that was our design, we implemented it, and it works,” former intern Mark Walsh told the school paper. “We are on the precipice of making history and all of our systems are going down to the Titanic. It is an awesome feeling!” he added

 

[Cardboard55]

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but........









It was difficult to quickly find older videos of fatigue testing and granted, all but the last video above are of "stress" testing. However, I am certain that fatigue testing has been taking place for many decades, at least back to the 50's when Boeing developed and released the 707.And, I don't know if they were even the first to do it.

Aloha Air lost it's roof due to excessive pressurization/depressurization cycles. Something like 80,000+ takeoff and landing cycles. The static wing bending tests are looking at yield strength of the wings. Different animal.

 

[vh20]

The problems do not lie in what you know but in what you do not know (to be relevant). Until the roof peeled off a pressurized airliner, nobody designing these things worried about fatigue even though material scientists were well aware of this Achilles heel of Aluminum alloys.

Well, no. To say that no one designing these things worried about fatigue until Aloha 243 would be wrong. A friend working at MD building DC-10s in the 70s described all kinds of fatigue testing going on. For instance, a complete set of wings was placed in a stress jig and placed under continual simulated takeoff and landing stresses (maximum + and - G-force loads experienced in normal flight) for well over 100,000 cycles. Aloha 243 failed due to a design flaw that had already been corrected in production prior to its failure. Yes, fatigue exploited the flaw and played a major part in the failure, but it wasn’t ignored.

 

[vh20]

The static wing bending tests are looking at yield strength of the wings. Different animal.

He actually said that in his post that you quoted, he just couldn’t find the appropriate videos to post. But he is correct, they were doing actual fatigue testing way before Aloha 243. They found the failure of the DH Comet fuselages and located the problem to the square window corners by doing pressure fatigue cycle testing back in the early 50’s.

The type of video I believe @Threadcutter308 was looking for would be like this one, testing the fatigue cycle of Convair 340/440 wings back in the 50's:

 

[Pharmseller]

Now I see. Your post above makes sense, but the preceding trade of quotes between you and Maggot makes it seem as though you were referring to interns at NASA in ‘69, since that’s what he meant.

Copy.

So this engineer takes a break from work to stretch his legs a bit on campus. Walking by a pond he hears “Hey, you!”

Looking down he sees a frog. The frog can speak! The frog says, “I need your help. I’m actually a beautiful young woman, but I’ve been turned into a frog by an evil witch. Just one kiss will turn me back into a beautiful woman, and I’ll do anything you want to show my gratitude.”

”Neat,” the engineer replies, and reaches down and puts her in his pocket.

As he continues his walk, the frog interrupts him. “Perhaps you didn’t hear me, I just need one kiss and I’ll do anything you want to repay you.”

”No, I heard you,” he says, and keeps walking.

After a few minutes she’s had enough. “Listen, dumbass, what part of beautiful woman, anything you want, is not getting through to you?”

“It’s like this,” he says. “I’m an engineer, I wouldn’t have the faintest notion of what to do with a woman. But a talking frog is pretty cool.”





P

 

[Threadcutter308]

He actually said that in his post that you quoted, he just couldn’t find the appropriate videos to post. But he is correct, they were doing actual fatigue testing way before Aloha 243. They found the failure of the DH Comet fuselages and located the problem to the square window corners by doing pressure fatigue cycle testing back in the early 50’s.

The type of video I believe @Threadcutter308 was looking for would be like this one, testing the fatigue cycle of Convair 340/440 wings back in the 50's:

Thank You, exactly right.

 

[candyx]

What nobody understands that experience always beats academic , a lesson learned to late in this case.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Aloha Air lost it's roof due to excessive pressurization/depressurization cycles. Something like 80,000+ takeoff and landing cycles. The static wing bending tests are looking at yield strength of the wings. Different animal.

Agreed that they are different animals, please see post number(s) 37 and 40 above for further clarification.

I think that the bigger question is that if indeed fatigue testing was done, then why did Aloha Air 243 lose it's roof ?

My suspicion is that fatigue testing was not actually done on that section of the airplane. Or, do I possibly remember that the panels were bonded together with epoxy and the epoxy let loose ? Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall an incident where that took place. Just not sure if it was this instance (Aloha 243).

I think also that in the bigger picture, Stockton Rush cut numerous, fundamentally dangerous corners, ignored industry experts warnings and fired anyone that wasn't a sycophant that sucked up to him and did what he demanded. If he had wanted to kill himself due to his own hubris/ignorance/negligence, I have very little concern about that. Where I do have a great big problem is his ego was writing checks that not only couldn't be cashed, but they ended up killing four other innocent people (that were unaware of the facts/corners that Rush had cut) in the process.

 

[Pharmseller]

I’ll take an experienced academic.



P

 

[alpine44]

Copy.

So this engineer takes a break from work to stretch his legs a bit on campus. Walking by a pond he hears “Hey, you!”

Looking down he sees a frog. The frog can speak! The frog says, “I need your help. I’m actually a beautiful young woman, but I’ve been turned into a frog by an evil witch. Just one kiss will turn me back into a beautiful woman, and I’ll do anything you want to show my gratitude.”

”Neat,” the engineer replies, and reaches down and puts her in his pocket.

As he continues his walk, the frog interrupts him. “Perhaps you didn’t hear me, I just need one kiss and I’ll do anything you want to repay you.”

”No, I heard you,” he says, and keeps walking.

After a few minutes she’s had enough. “Listen, dumbass, what part of beautiful woman, anything you want, is not getting through to you?”

“It’s like this,” he says. “I’m an engineer, I wouldn’t have the faintest notion of what to do with a woman. But a talking frog is pretty cool.”





P

And with that decision he saved himself a lot of time, money and grief.

 

[vh20]

Copy.

So this engineer takes a break from work to stretch his legs a bit on campus. Walking by a pond he hears “Hey, you!”

Looking down he sees a frog. The frog can speak! The frog says, “I need your help. I’m actually a beautiful young woman, but I’ve been turned into a frog by an evil witch. Just one kiss will turn me back into a beautiful woman, and I’ll do anything you want to show my gratitude.”

”Neat,” the engineer replies, and reaches down and puts her in his pocket.

As he continues his walk, the frog interrupts him. “Perhaps you didn’t hear me, I just need one kiss and I’ll do anything you want to repay you.”

”No, I heard you,” he says, and keeps walking.

After a few minutes she’s had enough. “Listen, dumbass, what part of beautiful woman, anything you want, is not getting through to you?”

“It’s like this,” he says. “I’m an engineer, I wouldn’t have the faintest notion of what to do with a woman. But a talking frog is pretty cool.”





P

A priest, a doctor, and an engineer were on a golf course and were becoming extremely frustrated by a group ahead of them that were terrible golfers and taking waaaay too long. A greenskeeper overheard them grumbling to each other about the "idiots" ahead of them. He came over and explained, "I'm sorry about the inconvenience, but those poor souls are from the local School For The Blind. They made arrangements with us for some of their more advanced students to come over here on Tuesday mornings and work as a team on solving the challenges of a golf course without the benefit of sight."
The complainers immediately felt embarrassed and guilty about their selfish ranting. The priest said, "I'm sorry for my impatience. I will endeavor to pray for these children daily for help in the struggles they face." The doctor said, "Me too. I have colleagues and friends who are among the best ophthalmologists in the world. I will see if we can enlist their help in treating the conditions responsible for their loss of vision."
There was a brief pause, and then the engineer spoke....


"Why don't they just let them play at night?"

 

[Im2bent]

Because the NASA engineers were breaking new ground at 28. Almost everything they did was new. These kids probably learned at 16 what the NASA engineers were discovering at 28.

Keep in mind the average iPhone of today has more computing power than all of NASA’s computers did in 1969, combined.

Be advised I did not say smarter. But they knew as much, or more.




P

BWWAAAHHHAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAA yeah about video games lulz that worked out real well.......

 

[Threadcutter308]

I’ll take an experienced academic.



P

How do you feel about 50 year old "white guys" ?

 

[Pharmseller]

How do you feel about 50 year old "white guys" ?

Seein’ as how I is one, I prefer ‘em.

I think that’s the unintended consequence to all the Affirmative Action and DEI hires, if you encounter a white male in a job you can bet he’s phenomenal, given that he had to compete against every possible roadblock to get the job.



P

 

[Threadcutter308]

Seein’ as how I is one, I prefer ‘em.

I think that’s the unintended consequence to all the Affirmative Action and DEI hires, if you encounter a white male in a job you can bet he’s phenomenal, given that he had to compete against every possible roadblock to get the job.



P

Agreed wholeheartedly. Although, in Rush's case, I think he used it as an excuse. I'm getting the impression that most of the submersible was designed by yet to graduate college engineering interns. Hell of a great way to "keep expenses down"......

I think those kids were used by him and they will unfortunately bear some pretty deep scars over what he did to (and with) them. They never should have been put in the positions they were without constant expert oversight and supervision.

I think it's very telling that Everett Community College’s Ocean Research College Academy cancelled their internship program with Oceangate in 2019. That tells me that someone at ECC smelled a great big rat. Also interesting that ECC cancelled the program within about a year of the firing of Oceangate's Program Manager in 2018. The same P/M that told Rush that he (Rush) was going to kill someone and that the submersible "was a lemon".

 

[Im2bent]

Agreed wholeheartedly. Although, in Rush's case, I think he used it as an excuse. I'm getting the impression that most of the submersible was designed by yet to graduate college engineering interns.

I think those kids were used by him and will unfortunately bear some pretty deep scars over what he did to them. They never should have been put in the positions they were without expert supervision/oversight.

I think it's very telling that WSU/Everett cancelled their internship program with Oceangate in 2019. That tells me that someone at WSU smelled a great big rat.

Not as deep as Rushs scars lulz. But in all seriousness I doubt the electrical system had anything to do with the implosion, my money is on that crap viewport. Rated at 4300 feet lets take it to 12000 cause I break rules durrrrrrrrrr.....