Resize loaded ammo ?

[Morgan711]

I got a lot of .308 I loaded for my LTR . It was shot and only neck sized for this rifle when reloaded . I no longer have this rifle and now have a DTA that will not chamber ....hanging up at base ...anybody resize loaded ammo before and if so which die would be best ? Thanks ! ps , I posted in another thread but didn't get but a few replies so figured I'd ask here too ....and would a FL die crimp the neck area around the bullet too tight if done loaded ?

 

[FLIGHT762]

A Redding Body will work. Be sure to use plenty of good lube. I've done it a number of times.

 

[Milo 2.5]

A Redding Body will work. Be sure to use plenty of good lube. I've done it a number of times.

This guy's right, but make sure your positive on the base being where the hang-up is, if it's too bad, you may look into the small base body die.
And yes, you crimp after the fact, just take the guts out of your sizer die, and get the feel for it, just in case your brass isn't all the same length.

 

[Morgan711]

Rounds chamber easily till I go to close bolt and lock , small mark around base of cartridges where it appears to be hanging up

 

[ChrisGarrett]

A Redding Body will work. Be sure to use plenty of good lube. I've done it a number of times.

I'm doing a box of 50 .223 right now, using a Redding body die and lubing them up for a slight shoulder bump on 30 of them.

Unless you're going to pull them down and start over, you need a Redding body die, as others have said.

Chris

 

[Milo 2.5]

Unless you're going to pull them down and start over, you need a Redding body die, as others have said.

Chris

A Redding fl bushing die will do dual purpose as a body die with bushing and stem parts removed.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

A Redding fl bushing die will do dual purpose as a body die with bushing and stem parts removed.

Of course it will, but for simplicity's sake, I didn't want to start bogging the OP down with having to explain bushing dies and neck bushing dies vs. FL bushing dies vs. body dies.

I own a lot of neck and FL Redding S dies, so I do understand what you're saying.

A body die is probably the cheapest way to 'fix' the problem and that's what many people want.

Chris

 

[Morgan711]

Any preferred one ? Part number ?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Any preferred one ? Part number ?

Redding Body Die 308 Winchester

Shop around for price, but that's the standard (vs. small base) part with Redding number right there.

Used in conjunction with their bushing neck sizing dies, one can forego buying a FL bushing die.

For 308 and 223, I run a separate Dillon 550b toolhead for my sizing duties. I run a body die in station 3, a neck busing die in station 4 with a larger step-down bushing and then in station 1, a second neck bushing die with my final bushing installed.

One pull of the level and I can do three steps.

Chris

 

[Mad_Charlie]

A Redding fl bushing die will do dual purpose as a body die with bushing and stem parts removed.

Which is precisely what I use, I had some over long factory PMC a while back, this did the trick.

Of course, there was a guy on another forum running around flappimg his wings and squeaking "Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, Danger, you're gonna blow yourself up!"

 

[Morgan711]

I also have a 550B just not set up yet , using single stage rockchucker for now...that die setup sounds sweet though ! How does the powder throw do with Varget ? That's my main powder but also have several pounds of BL2C , and others ...

 

[ChrisGarrett]

I also have a 550B just not set up yet , using single stage rockchucker for now...that die setup sounds sweet though ! How does the powder throw do with Varget ? That's my main powder but also have several pounds of BL2C , and others ...

As with any volume-metric powder measure, you're going to get some deviation with stick powders and especially the longer ones.

You can polish the powder bars, funnels and hopper housing to get things to flow more smoothly and not bridge, which is really what we're talking about vs. any difference in absolute charge weights from round to round.

After all, if you want to get things down to the final kernel, any powder measure will fall short.

For my informal target rounds, I use an RCBS ChargeMaster 1500. For SHTF/bulk/plinking ammo, I let the Dillon PM do the work.

Polish everything up and you'll be better off. You can Google 'Dillon Powder Measure polishing' and see what you see.

Chris

 

[Morgan711]

Thanks Chris ! I ordered that Redding die off link you posted and will look into the Dillon tricks !

 

[FLIGHT762]

Of course, there was a guy on another forum running around flapping his wings and squeaking "Danger, Will Robinson, Danger, Danger, you're gonna blow yourself up!"

I'll tell you, the first time I did It, I was a little uneasy of putting a loaded round essentially in a chamber and squeezing the shit out of it. After evaluating it and understanding there is nothing near the primer that could set the cartridge off, I was good with it. So far, I haven't remotely come close to getting a cartridge stuck in the die, but it does go through your mind.

 

[SWRichmond]

I've been reloading ammo for more than 40 years. I've never done the thing described, and I never will. I will pull them apart before I do that.

No offense, but...wow. So you're going to chamber a round pointed at your head? Or at the poor slob in the apartment above you?

 

[Milo 2.5]

I've been reloading ammo for more than 40 years. I've never done the thing described, and I never will. I will pull them apart before I do that.

No offense, but...wow. So you're going to chamber a round pointed at your head? Or at the poor slob in the apartment above you?

The numbers we're talking are low, 4-5 rds that maybe wont chamber, if you have a box of 50 or 100, by all means pull the bullets. This is just a trick for a handful.
I mean fuck, you couldn't get it right the first time, what makes a guy think round 2 will produce any better results?

 

[SWRichmond]

The numbers we're talking are low, 4-5 rds that maybe wont chamber, if you have a box of 50 or 100, by all means pull the bullets. This is just a trick for a handful.
I mean fuck, you couldn't get it right the first time, what makes a guy think round 2 will produce any better results?

Would you take the firing pin out of a 1911, chamber a round and point it at your head?

 

[DocB]

SWR,

Redding body dies will do this correctly, even though Redding will say it's not recommended. I'd be more worried about the lube left on the case rather than the sizing operation.

BTDT,
DocB

 

[Mad_Charlie]

I've been reloading ammo for more than 40 years. I've never done the thing described, and I never will. I will pull them apart before I do that.

No offense, but...wow. So you're going to chamber a round pointed at your head? Or at the poor slob in the apartment above you?

I dunno about you, but I have never held my head over the press when I load ammo and there is no poor slob around here except me.
I have even been known to (gasp!) tumble loaded ammo. As for the slight shoulder bump that this factory ammo needed, I could not and cannot see what could set it off, being that there is no firing mechanism on my press, or firing pin either for that matter. If a round can somehow survive being slammed into a chamber by a fast moving bolt in a semi automatic rifle WITH a firing pin without going off (yes, I've heard of "slamfires") I don't think that a slow, careful trip through a die is gonna make it go bang, considering that there is a great big hole under the primer with nothing in it but air.

Don't worry, I would never dream of twisting your arm and trying to make you re-size loaded ammo and I don't recommend that anyone do what I do, but I had 200 rounds of ammo that I could use as opposed to ammo that I couldn't.

I have over 40 years of loading also.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Would you take the firing pin out of a 1911, chamber a round and point it at your head?

I take it we're not going to discuss priming a powdered case complete with bullet? You're kinda dramatizing this.

 

[918v]

Would you take the firing pin out of a 1911, chamber a round and point it at your head?

Why would anyone do that? That's retarded and serves no purpose. But it's perfectly safe unless you believe in spontaneous discharge.

Similarly, resizing loaded rounds in a body die is perfectly safe. Why would it not be? Do rounds go off in seater dies? Is a Reddi g Competition Seater unsafe? It gots a chamber after all.

 

[4Quangs]

To paraphrase Secretary of State Don Rumsfeld: There are things I know, there are things I know that I don’t know and then there are things I don’t know that I don’t know. To that list I will add that I’ve discovered over the years things that I knew that just weren’t so.

When dealing with used car salesmen and politicians, my favorite is: “You can’t fool me, I’m too ignorant.”

 

[ChrisGarrett]

About the only concern that I can see with using a body die to resize loaded ammo is if you have some debris, or a kernel of corncob/walnut sitting on your reloading press ram, right where the primer would rest during resizing and even in this event, there needs to be the component of 'acceleration' present for primers to generally ignite.

Not lubing up your cases and getting one stuck, would be more of a problem, IMO. I'd guess that the general risk percentage is much higher for reloaders who toss their loaded rounds into an ammo box, or bucket.

Chris

 

[Mad_Charlie]

As many times as I have seen people, myself included, get a primer sideways and crush the crap out of it and then have to push it back out...
And then there are those who fail to de-crimp primer pockets and crush the crap out of the primer and have to push it back out...
Maybe primers have to be hit just a certain way.
Then there are the times that a whole tube of primers go off for no apparent reason...
Any way you want to look at it, primers are nothing to take lightly!
But I don't worry about re-sizing loaded ammo with a body die.

 

[STLSteve86]

Resize loaded ammo ?

I have had no luck with Dillon charging bars with stick powder but ball powder it's dead on every time. For accurate rifle loads I also use a charge master and rock chucker with redding competition dies with really good results.

Body die will do you just fine. Hope you have a head spacing gauge Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mad_Charlie]

"Hope you have a head spacing gauge Cheers!"

I have three, and a PTG 1.630 headspace guage to check the calibration (for my .308)

 

[Morgan711]

If the Redding body die resizes back to "Factory or Run of the mill standard size " why would I need a headspacing gauge ?

 

[FLIGHT762]

If the Redding body die resizes back to "Factory or Run of the mill standard size " why would I need a headspacing gauge ?

So you can check and verify you are not over or under bumping the shoulders of your brass. This turning the die and touching the shell holder and then turning the die in another 1/4 turn is a load of Horse Shit!!!! Once you get the F/L die in the right spot, turning the die in / out 1/8th turn will bump the shoulders + or - .009". You need a fucking gauge to verify that. Most new reloaders do not know WTF they're doing when setting up a die to F/L size.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I've been reloading ammo for more than 40 years. I've never done the thing described, and I never will. I will pull them apart before I do that.

No offense, but...wow. So you're going to chamber a round pointed at your head? Or at the poor slob in the apartment above you?

I'm reading one recommendation after another and thinking WTF? Until I saw this one. +1. Somebody needs to read Modern Reloading by Richard Lee.

 

[Morgan711]

Yes I am a " rookie " reloader and by no means a "pro " . I guess my main mistake is when I setup my dies I used a NEW FGMM pulled down case to set dies . I put the sizing die in the loader , slide in the new brass , then lower lever to lowest throw point , I then screw down die over lubed case till it stops / snugs up , I then take fired brass and size , then check specs . Guess I do need the HS Gauge and check ....and do some reading on reloading ! But this is the way I was taught , and apparently there is a lot more to it ...thanks guys

 

[Milo 2.5]

Yes I am a " rookie " reloader and by no means a "pro " . I guess my main mistake is when I setup my dies I used a NEW FGMM pulled down case to set dies . I put the sizing die in the loader , slide in the new brass , then lower lever to lowest throw point , I then screw down die over lubed case till it stops / snugs up , I then take fired brass and size , then check specs . Guess I do need the HS Gauge and check ....and do some reading on reloading ! But this is the way I was taught , and apparently there is a lot more to it ...thanks guys

If you actually got this trick right, on new unfired brass, the brass we've been discussing would be over bumped and should chamber with no issues. You're going to need a tool to measure, I don't buy into the headspace gauge, that would be a saami spec gauge, and may in no way resemble your chamber. One gunsmith, with the same reamer could chamber 4 barrels in a single day and never match a single one in headspace.

 

[4Quangs]

Milo: "One gunsmith, with the same reamer could chamber 4 barrels in a single day and never match a single one in headspace."

As long as all those chambers meet SAAMI standards, a headspace gage ensures that your rounds will fit all of those chambers and the chamber of the new rifle you just picked up at the local gun store.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Guess I do need the HS Gauge and check .

What you need is a shoulder bump gauge to measure the amount of resizing bump you're giving to your fired brass. You don't need a SAAMI spec. 1.630 "Go Gauge" that a Gunsmith uses to measure barrel chamber sizes.

You can read up on the net what these gauges are and how to use them. There's several manufacturers who make them.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Milo: "One gunsmith, with the same reamer could chamber 4 barrels in a single day and never match a single one in headspace."

As long as all those chambers meet SAAMI standards, a headspace gage ensures that your rounds will fit all of those chambers and the chamber of the new rifle you just picked up at the local gun store.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but to get cases to fit back in that chamber after he's fired them, he's gonna need something to measure bump and get it right. The base of his cases are oversized here, not sure if they would even go in a headspace gauge? He has issues and some shitty advice has been handed to him.

Sorry 4 Q's,
The advice this guy should have been given from the get go was, pitch the shit and buy new brass! I should know better than teaching people some of my evil ways.
Even running loaded shit through a body die will result in over bumped shoulders, and another catastrophe down the road he may have no idea as to what happened.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

I use my 1.630 headspace guage to zero my Hornady bump guage and check calibration on my RCBS case mike. This is not necessary because they are used as comparators, but I like to see what and where the numbers are. For instance, The case mike should zero out on the headspace guage, but it doesn't, it is .001 off. The Wilson guage I don't use much any more, and the Hornady guage is easier for me if I start with a known zero.

I am also a fan of the Redding shell holder sets.

 

[Morgan711]

Ok , so here's my update . Got the body size die in , went back to my caveman reloading method. Took new FGMM case and dropped it into die , it went in all the way easily and pulled back out by fingers . Put new brass in shell holder , lowered loading arm to full stroke and then screwed die in till it bumped up , then backed off about 1/4 turn to keep shoulder from bumping up . Put in one of the rounds that would not chamber, lubed up and sized....barely had to pull down on lever with any amount of effort...talking 2 finger tips on lever and basically the weight of my arm , very slight drag while resizing , brass ejected with no binding or sticking in die. Chambered in rifle and test fired great , did several more with same results . Hope this is the cure ? It seems to be .

 

[Milo 2.5]

Ok , so here's my update . Got the body size die in , went back to my caveman reloading method. Took new FGMM case and dropped it into die , it went in all the way easily and pulled back out by fingers . Put new brass in shell holder , lowered loading arm to full stroke and then screwed die in till it bumped up , then backed off about 1/4 turn to keep shoulder from bumping up . Put in one of the rounds that would not chamber, lubed up and sized....barely had to pull down on lever with any amount of effort...talking 2 finger tips on lever and basically the weight of my arm , very slight drag while resizing , brass ejected with no binding or sticking in die. Chambered in rifle and test fired great , did several more with same results . Hope this is the cure ? It seems to be .

Good deal, glad it went your way!

 

[918v]

I suggest you don't use a FGMM case to set up your dies. The reason:

The final shoulder dimension is a result of sizing die distance to the shell holder. This distance is shorter than the actual shoulder dimension because brass springs back after sizing. When you use a factory case to set that distance, you are ignoring springback. You are assuming the factory case has plenty of clearance, but that is not always so. It may have plenty, or it may have just barely enough. Factory ammo varies from lot to lot. Don't use it as a gauge.

Instead of a factory case or a steel headspace gauge, use a fired case. Size it incrementally until you get the bolt to close. Better yet, get Redding competition shell holders which allow you to do that in precise .002" increments.

 

[Bill Larson]

I've been reloading ammo for more than 40 years. I've never done the thing described, and I never will. I will pull them apart before I do that.

No offense, but...wow. So you're going to chamber a round pointed at your head? Or at the poor slob in the apartment above you?

I could not agree more..... playing with loaded ammo like this is dangerous..... I have and will always disassemble....

 

[918v]

But it's not dangerous when you're seating a bullet? In both instances the case is primed and full of powder and contained within a steel die. Some dies have a sliding chamber sleeve proportioned to mimic your firearm. Yet everyone says they are safe. How do you explain that?

 

[4Quangs]

There is just so much that is unknown about loaded ammo that it is all but impossible to make an informed decision. It's a crap shoot at best; if successful, all you can say for sure is that you got away with sizing those particular rounds. Keep in mind that the chamber in a rifle is designed to contain the pressure generated by the fired round; the chamber in your sizing die will explode like a small grenade if one of those rounds ignites.

There is no comparison between the pressures involved when seating a bullet versus sizing a case; the pressure involved in sizing a live round is significant. A defective primer or brittle brass in the case head could result in a catastrophe and it takes only one failure to ruin your life. I'm not posting this only for the original poster, but as a heads up for the new guy who is trying to learn his way around making cartridges.

Disassemble the rounds and start over.

 

[918v]

You don't know what you're talking about.

You can take a primer and seat it any which way- upside down, sideways, or crush it all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket. It won't go off if you apply pressure slowly. The only way the primer will fire is if it is struck hard.

Brass metallurgy has absolutely nothing to do with it. Whether the case is soft or hard it will not affect a primer's ability to fire.

While the pressure involved in sizing is greater than the pressure involved in seating, in both cases the pressure is applied slowly and will not result in primer discharge.

 

[Short Round]

You don't know what you're talking about.

You can take a primer and seat it any which way- upside down, sideways, or crush it all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket. It won't go off if you apply pressure slowly. The only way the primer will fire is if it is struck hard.

Brass metallurgy has absolutely nothing to do with it. Whether the case is soft or hard it will not affect a primer's ability to fire.

While the pressure involved in sizing is greater than the pressure involved in seating, in both cases the pressure is applied slowly and will not result in primer discharge.

Um, I'm not sure I can agree with that about pressing a primer in any way including crushing it flat and it won't go off if you do it slowly.
I've set off just two primers in 25ish years of reloading, both in the same lot of military casings where I failed to swage the primer pockets enough. I had a few casings that required too much force to seat so I set them aside until I was done with the batch. I put the first in and slowly leaned on it, hoping it would seat below flush. This was on a RCBS bench mounted primer unit. It went bang. Plain old primers are indeed loud. I took the bench unit into the garage to do the other stubborn ones lest I further disturb the fellow denizens of the homestead. Of the 3 remaining I had one more go bang. This time at least I had hearing protection on.

Therefore in my small sampling I can say firm and slow pressure can set off a primer. IIRC these were wolf primers.


ETA- I know you can abuse a primer a bit if you're slow and careful. I've deprimed more than one casing with a sideways primer, inverted primer (thanks dillon shuttle), or one where the skirt got lifted (again a misaligned dillon). I won't leave the skirt lifted for a live round as that's not sealed and you will easily get a gas jet to do some bolt face cutting.

 

[918v]

The point is that the mechanism involved in bumping the shoulder in a body die does not induce any stress on the primer and will not set it off in the die.