Rifle Scopes Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

[JelloStorm]

Has anyone ever mounted a scope that just looks canted to one side or another when you hold it or put it on a bipod, yet looks dead on through a boresighter? We mounted the scope, leveled it and put a boresighter with a grid in the barrel and the crosshairs align to the grid no problem.

It just looks off...

He also has these "reticle level" flaps that you put on the flat part of the mount and it looks off in them too.

It just looks to me like the reticle is canted a little bit counter-clockwise.

It's too shitty outside to shoot today so maybe I'll get some range time in the next week to test it a bit, but right now I can only go by the tools I had available.

 

[al22300]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Align your vertical crosshair to a vertical line on the grid of your boresighter. Crank your elevation knob all the way up and down. If the lines separate then you have some reticle cant.

 

[RyeDaddy]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Yes. My hunting rifle is like that. Checks out up and down with a level and a plumb line. Tracks correctly at the range, but to my eye looks ever so slightly canted clockwise. No one else sees it. For me it's just the way I hold the rifle, as long as I trust the level it shoots correctly. If I go with my gut and take it past 200 yards it becomes obvious I'm holding it canted. Trust your instruments. If it tracks correctly and you know your boresight is good then it's you.

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al22300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Align your vertical crosshair to a vertical line on the grid of your boresighter. Crank your elevation knob all the way up and down. If the lines separate then you have some reticle cant. </div></div>

Both vertical and horizontal crosshairs were on so hopefully it's just me. I didn't try the tracking up and down though...

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Very few reticles are factory-installed with perfect alignment. Usually the actual inside-the-scope reticle cant is too small to be noticed (or at least to be bothersome). I've heard from different vendors about their tolerances (i.e., how canted is too much & back to re-install). That could be up to 1 degree! To me 1 degree would certainly be noticeable, especially when checked against a plumb bob.

I never used this kind of "reticle-aligning" boresighter - only a "laser pointer" type to get the scope roughly zeroed so my first zeroing shot would likely be on paper (and close

). For mounting & alignment - it's always bubble levels (rifle, rails, rings, turret - not necessarily all of the above or at the same time

) and plumb bob.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Mine looks canted but everything says it's straight. I found it's due to the angle of my head on the stock, if I'm at an angle, it looks crooked. Once I figured that out it kept me sane.

 

[dvsdev]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine looks canted but everything says it's straight. I found it's due to the angle of my head on the stock, if I'm at an angle, it looks crooked. Once I figured that out it kept me sane. </div></div>

That's the conclusion I came up with. With that in mind, if the rifle and scope are level and you shoot the rifle with a canted view, does that mean the point of impact will be off?

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

I'm not so sure it was only that. I threw my deer rifle on the harris bipod and looked at a target I taped to the wall. I know this gun is dead on.

Then I took the new one and looked and the crosshairs definitely were canted.

But that doesn't explain why it lined up in the boresighter. I might have to have my dad take his boresighter and test it against our deer rifles to see if maybe it is the culprit.

I highly doubt the action is canted in the McMillan stock which would cause it.

Would it be possible for the scope mount to be canted? Here is the one I have on it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=246580863

They were offered for sale on this forum, but I can't remember the sellers name to ask him if maybe there were some defects?

 

[Gondy223]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

I used one of those Wheeler level jobs, and my scope looks canted, but it is just aligned with the bore, not the scope base. I tried like hell to prove it was crooked, but turns out that I am the one who is crooked, not the scope.

 

[Jon A]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine looks canted but everything says it's straight. I found it's due to the angle of my head on the stock, if I'm at an angle, it looks crooked. Once I figured that out it kept me sane. </div></div>
This is an important point--especially when looking at things indoors, parallax has an affect. Often you'll find if you mount the rifle left handed and look, you'll see the reticle looks canted the other direction.

This effect should go away for the most part outdoors when looking at things 100+ yds away.

 

[mattj]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Often you'll find if you mount the rifle left handed and look, you'll see the reticle looks canted the other direction.
</div></div>

+1 I went through the same thing at one point "this looks canted, but how could that be?" -- then moved it to the other shoulder/eye, and it looked canted the other way. Stopped worrying about it at that point.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Most shooters have a natural cant, gotta level the scope on install and level the scope on usage. Most people try real hard at the first, then completely forget about the second.

I naturally cant a few degrees clockwise, so shoulding a well-mounted scope, it always comes up looking wrong.

It takes time on the trigger to get over this. And a rail-mounted level helps allot too.

At 100 yards, it is no problem. At 800 yards, it is the difference between a hit and a miss.

 

[dvsdev]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

I had my rifle in a Tipton Best Gun Vise and leveled it with the floor. Then I leveled the scope to the rifle. After attaching my Harris bipod, the scope and rifle are canted (the bubble moves to the left). Should the rifle be leveled with the Harris bipod or the gun vise?

 

[Pat M]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Don't go by the bipod, lots of sling studs are not centered.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Is it a magnetic boresight that goes on the end of the muzzle? If so you can rotate them a little and make them line up. I do this with my USO boresight, tilt it left or right till the crosshair is dead on with the grid then adjust.

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

There's one more thing. If the reticle is canted in the scope (factory imperfection), then:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]if you install/level this scope by putting bubble level on the turret: the reticle will look canted when the scope is properly leveled - but the scope will track true. You can reliably dial correction with such a setup, but it's hard to hold over/under properly.[*]if you install/level this scope by aligning reticle with e.g. a plumb bob: you can hold over/under - but can't properly dial.[/list]
By having the scope (not the reticle) leveled - you can measure the angle of cant of the reticle by placing crosshair on the plumb bob, dialing e.g. 10 MIL up, measuring how far off the plumb bob line the crosshair is now (deviation in MIL) - and computing the cant angle as ARCTAN(deviation/10).

 

[bignada]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Run several Box Tests with the collimator. If reticle tracks the grid and returns to -0- forget about it looking canted.

Might be your base or receiver mounting holes are not squared to the bore. One piece base is not desirable for Dual Dovetail. The base does not enhance the receiver's rigidity. One piece just adds potential for off-square base holes to exert torque on the base. Got other base and ring setup? Try a different setup and see if still looks off to you.

There is an extensive article reprinted in Precision Shooting's Benchrest Primer which details how a noted accuracy gunsmith sets up and epoxies Weaver bases on a new rifle. Worth a review, article is To Insure Centered Actions, by TJ Jackson.

Might turn out that you have to use an STD or other mount system that allows adjustment within the rings or bases for windage in order to overcome something like a canted tube.

Perhaps you can try another scope you are sure performs correctly and see if your DD setup looks and performs the same as it does with the scope you are concerned about.

If the scope is new, perhaps the tube is bent? Stuff does happen. Might just return to dealer and get a different scope if you aren't happy....

Good luck!

 

[mouse07410]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If reticle tracks the grid and returns to -0- forget about it looking canted. </div></div>
Unless you need to be able to properly hold over/under using reticle.

 

[JelloStorm]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

The problem wasn't the boresighter, but rather the idiot (me) operating it. The boresighter was off to one side and I aligned the scope to the grid in it instead of using a reticle leveler first.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Ahhh, so the part where you originally said you "leveled it" didn't actually happen, you just aligned it to the boresight's grid. Makes a lot more sense now.

I learned not to trust a boresight when I first got my USO unit. Like you said, no fault of the boresight, but they do require some things to be perfect to show accurate readings.

Now I use it to check my zero rather than help get my starting zero (that's what chamber style laser boresights are for).

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

You're putting the cart before the horse.

You could be putting the bore sighter in on a cant.

Hang a piece of heavy string or something like 1/8" nylon cord at a distance . . . 15 to 20 yards or so with a substantial weight on the end and let it hang freely. Do this from a point where it can be seen through your scope after you mount it.

Get the receiver group/scope rings perpendicular to the vertical first making sure that you keep your rifle secured so that it doesn't cant.

Place the scope in the bottom rings and adjust it for eye relief and then, sighting in on the string (making sure that the rifle has not moved). Place the top ring halves on the scope, start the screws and snug the rings down but not so tightly you can't rotate the scope in the rings. Rotate the scope in what ever direction needed to make sure that the vertical stadia is in alignment with the string, or, if slightly off to one side, absolutely parallel with the string.

Secure the top ring halves and there ya have it.

 

[*Nine]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine looks canted but everything says it's straight. I found it's due to the angle of my head on the stock, if I'm at an angle, it looks crooked. Once I figured that out it kept me sane. </div></div>
This is an important point--especially when looking at things indoors, parallax has an affect. Often you'll find if you mount the rifle left handed and look, you'll see the reticle looks canted the other direction.

This effect should go away for the most part outdoors when looking at things 100+ yds away.</div></div>

I discovered this myself. I mounted a scope to where it was level, but when I looked through it I saw it as ever so slightly canted. I asked my wife to look through it and tell me what she thought. She gets behind the rifle (she's a lefty) and tells me it looks like it's ever so slightly canted the OTHER direction. That's when I realized that indoors it can appear canted depending on how you look through it.

 

[FALex]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dvsdev</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had my rifle in a Tipton Best Gun Vise and leveled it with the floor. Then I leveled the scope to the rifle. After attaching my Harris bipod, the scope and rifle are canted (the bubble moves to the left). Should the rifle be leveled with the Harris bipod or the gun vise? </div></div>

Glad I looked this up. I mounted my first scope last night. This was driving me nuts!!!! I had everything level in the vise, then when I hit the prone position with the bipods, damn thing went all catty-wompus (sp?)...When I shouldered it, though, it was level. I guess that's why they make pivot bipods, huh?

 

[DavidAR10]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

astigmatism - it's more prevalent than than any other cause

 

[KYS]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

Are you using feeler gauges to mount? That has always solved my issues.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Re: Reticle looks canted, but on through boresighter?

And I thought that I was loosing my marbles when my scope looked "off". Glad I am not the only one wondering about this.