rhineland arms / troop systems shady business

[LongArm]

on July 12th I payed for a leopard stock for my left handed MKII to the tune of $152.00. I then emailed them about their remington 700 stocks. I have emailed them a couple times a month asking for shipping dates and for a contact number to talk to some one. As of today I do not have a stock or the money returned. Has anyone else had any dealings with them and gotten a working phone number. At this point I have exhausted my internet google abilities. I have also sent an email this morning asking for a full refund.

I like the stock but I can not get anyone from troop sys/rhineland arms to contact me. If anyone has any contact numbers or an actual location for them please let me know.

 

[nuclear_shooter]

Worst case you can get your credit card company to refund the $$. Is that a fabricated item? Generally most companies charge your credit card when the item begins fabrication/customization or when it ships...

 

[Badshot308]

Have you tried this information? Not sure if it's current or not. Rhineland Arms Inc Profile - Lewisville, TX 75077 - Single Location 11944949

 

[LongArm]

Ok I had contacted them this morning and asked for a full refund. I also told them that I would refer the matter to the police dept internet fraud dept. I got an email from them stating that he had refunded my money $140 of the $152 I payed them. They gave me some bull about the bolt handle hole being in the wrong spot. which is also the same bull they told me about 1 month ago.

I had to email them and ask for my full refund (the extra $120). They refunded it as well. It is odd that they would not answer my emails until I said I would forward it to the police. I will never do business with them again, nor would I refer anyone to them. Sad cause I like their stuff.

 

[Spartan67]

Good thing I saw this. I was getting ready to get the same stock for my MKII.

 

[TimK]

Same here. I was going to order one today.

 

[MarineMD]

Damn! I was liking the Rhineland stock.

 

[Ipe]

What these guys said. This stock was on my short list... not anymore.

 

[rhineland arms]

Hi all,

I just checked on why that order was late. He had ordered a lefty stock and the ones we had on hand were not in spec. I am pretty sure we told him we had to wait for a new production run, but did not get that in time. I did just find were he emailed me on the board here but I did not check until now.

We are a small operation and running behind. We are processing everything in batches were we can but if we have something out of spec like the left handed stocks were I can not ship that, flat out. We just could not get to him in time for him. We are always more than happy to refund when we are late or add picatinny rails to the order.

Going to be updating the web site late tonight/tomorrow on current lead times for shipping. We are about to move one of the shops this weekend on top of the heavy orders and everything else right now. We are also adding a new CNC to the operations as I type this to help with inventory and accuracy.

Rhineland

 

[OpticsPlanet]

I've been quite happy with my service from Rhineland, even happier with the product. I ordered a stock for my Mark II and emailed shortly after asking the ETA. I received a reply saying they were doing a new run and it would be a few weeks, they had changed the magazine area on my model. I didn't mind at all. I wanted this stock badly, and now that I have it I want another one. Great stocks for an amazing price. Sorry you had a communication problem with them OP, but my experience with them has been great.

Heres a link to my setup...just finished a new free hand camo job on it.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...210093-first-camo-job-savage-mk-ii-fv-sr.html


Trevor B.

 

[LongArm]

Hi all,

I just checked on why that order was late. He had ordered a lefty stock and the ones we had on hand were not in spec. I am pretty sure we told him we had to wait for a new production run, but did not get that in time. I did just find were he emailed me on the board here but I did not check until now.

We are a small operation and running behind. We are processing everything in batches were we can but if we have something out of spec like the left handed stocks were I can not ship that, flat out. We just could not get to him in time for him. We are always more than happy to refund when we are late or add picatinny rails to the order.

Going to be updating the web site late tonight/tomorrow on current lead times for shipping. We are about to move one of the shops this weekend on top of the heavy orders and everything else right now. We are also adding a new CNC to the operations as I type this to help with inventory and accuracy.

Rhineland

I think saying that you could not get the order to me in time is a very polite way of saying it. I ordered on July 12th and sent you about 3-4 emails. In at least 2 emails I asked for a contact number because of the delay. I do not mind waiting for the stock.

e-mail history and replies
the dates are not in order but they are straight from my email acc.

---

From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
To: kirby evans <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: remington 700 leopard stock


Hello

I did not yet ship your order out. Our slot for the bolt handle seems off
and not sure we can correct it. I know we have more on the way and was
waiting for that.

On the 700. We will have those available at about the same time as the new
batch of Mk2s comes in.

thanks
Rhineland

> I am trying to find out if the order I placed for a left handed Savage
> MKII Leopard stock has shipped yet. Also if you are selling the Remington
> 700 version of the Leopard stock?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Kirby
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> To: kirby evans <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: remington 700 leopard stock
>
>
> Hello
>
> I think we will, we should have more info by middle of next week. We did
> just sell out of the Savage mk2 for a bit. Will have more by next week or
> so.
>
> thanks
> Rhineland
>
>> Do you offer a law enforcement discount for those? I am looking to
>> purchase one for my 700. I also just purchased one for my Savage MKII.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kirby
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>> To: kirby evans <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: remington 700 leopard stock
>>
>>
>> Hello
>>
>>
>> We will be selling those later this month.
>> Thanks
>> Rhineland
>>
>> Are you selling the rem 700 Leopard stocks?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kirby

July 30th
Is there a phone number I can call to talk to someone? That way i can get a better idea when to order the Rem 700 stock and find out when the rim fire is coming my way.

Thanks,
Kirby
No reply to the above e-mail that I find.


Aug 7th
"Hi, I am trying to find out when my stock will be shipped. It is a Leopard stock for a left handed Savage mkii. Can you tell me when it will be sent out? Do you have a contact number? It is very frustrating to order a product and then have to email over and over again (for a month) to find out when the product will ship out. A contact phone number would help greatly. I know many people who want to order but your customer service is such that I am not sure I would refer them because of the back and forth it takes to get info/answers



Again a simple phone number on your web site would prevent a lot of buyers frustration. I like the layout of the stock and want to buy a Rem 700 stock in the same layout. I am purchasing this stock as a training aid for my center fire AICS rifle. However this purchasing the leopard stock has turned out to be very time consuming and frustrating due to the lack of answers and communication. I truly feel if you could fix the communication and customer service issues, you could dominate the rim fire stock business."
No reply to the above e-mail that I find.


Aug 26th
"Hi, I am trying to find out when my stock will be shipped. It is a Leopard stock for a left handed Savage mkii. Can you tell me when it will be sent out? I ordered the stock in mid July."
No reply to the above e-mail that I find.

Sept 16th
"I sent payment through paypal in the amount of $152.00 in mid July. I want a complete refund of my money. I want it promptly. I have waited for you to send the product I had payed for. You failed to produce the product. If I do not receive a full refund by 09-19-2013 I will forward all of this information to the Corpus Christi Police dept. internet fraud division. "


reply

[email protected] wrote:


Hello

I did just refund the money, let me know if you dont get it.

We have some lefties but they are out of spec and I was waiting to run a
new batch. The cocking handle slot is too far forward on they current
batch, we have several that are no good.

Thanks
Rhineland

Rhineland sent $140 of the $152 I payed for the stock on July 12th 2013

Sept 16th
You still owe me $12.00. I paid you $152.00 and you only refunded me $140.00.

Rhineland refunded the remaining amount after my last e-mail.


I would have waited another 2 months if I could have figured out what was going on. I really wanted the stock more than the money. It looks like an awesome set up. However after having to e-mail back and forth with no real dates other than "Will have more by next week or so" and then "I did not yet ship your order out. Our slot for the bolt handle seems off and not sure we can correct it. I know we have more on the way and was waiting for that."

Then on Sept. 16th after I asked for a refund I finally get an e-mail back from you saying "We have some lefties but they are out of spec and I was waiting to run a new batch. The cocking handle slot is too far forward on they current batch, we have several that are no good". this is the type of stuff I was not happy with. I ordered on July 12th and was told a couple of weeks and then a couple weeks later told a different story. A couple weeks after that I could not get any of my e-mails returned. Busy or not that is terrible customer service. Like I stated earlier if you have provided a contact number we could have come to some time of agreement/understanding. But I had already given you my $152 and after a couple of e-mails the customer service was none existent. I am flexible and would even have taken the stock unfinished and had it done myself but there was no way to get a hold of you even on the hide and rimfire central. I tried to contact you through pm's on both sites.

So to say "We just could not get to him in time for him" is wrong. You could not call me or e-mail me to explain anything. You just put it on the back order and went on. How long does it take to re-measure an action for a stock that is already in production? You should keep in mind a simple call would have solved all of this.

 

[NewsShooter]

I didn't have an issue with mine, I'd order another, and may do so for a 10/22 I'm building.

 

[LongArm]

I'd love to have one, but after waiting 2 months with no info I am reluctant to give up the money to a co. that will not give you a contact number or return e-mails.

I would have paid more for the stock and waited longer if I'd know what was going on. Instead I was left in the dark and the left handed action problem was put on the back burner. While they were having problems with the cocking lever on the lefties they were some how able to start production on a completely new leopard stock for the CZ452. That pisses me off.

I wish some one would just nut up and make a aluminum or wooden frame for a rim fire that will fit under the Viper skins.

 

[LongArm]

FYI
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518334

Seems I was not the only one.

 

[citizenk]

I'm glad I found this thread, I'm having a similar problem! Back in OCTOBER (11 months ago) I bought several hundred dollars worth of AK furniture, only to get a handguard for my 7.62x54r Vepr that didn't fit, I emailed them about the problem, sent pictures and measurements, and over the next week was told that the handguards they sold didn't fit .308 or x54r and that they would have to make some that did (at this time the text on his website said the furniture fit ALL vepr models, he's since changed it) so months go by and I hear nothing, I email in December and was told within the next month, I email in February and was told within the next month, I email in May and was told good news! they'll be ready in the next week! I then email him in AUGUST asking what happened to the week deadline from May and asked if I was ever going to get what I paid for nearly a year ago, and he hasn't the decency to respond. I'm not surprised at all he didn't respond to you until you threatened to turn to the police, from trying to find out if this guy is a complete scam artist over the past year I've found dozens of accounts of him only showing up to clear up his mistakes when legal action is threatened or someone is complaining about him on one of the big forums.


I'm interested to see if he's going to reply to this thread or if he'll ignore it like my recent emails asking when I'll get the item I paid for.


I'd be MORE than happy to post the email chain between myself and Rhineland arms so everyone else can see how many times I was told "one more month" only for the problem to be unresolved almost an entire year after I placed the order.


At this point I'd settle for him replying to my email and telling me he stopped work on the furniture and to give me a refund so I can sell the rifle I've had sitting in my safe for a year without a handguard.

 

[LongArm]

I knew i could not have been the only one.

 

[shootnderp]

I knew i could not have been the only one.

To what? Lie on the stand?

 

[Geno C.]

To what? Lie on the stand?

Stellar first post.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Man, a lot of companies dropping the ball on customer service these days, hint to these guys, communication back to customers is key. Hell, with good comms and good products customers are most always willing to give the benefit of doubt to the companies, honesty is a plus too. Bad economy, money is tight, people are more careful what they spend their money on and dont like being dismissed or ignored after they are in a contract. I tried calling two of the most known companies that make great rifles a few months ago,,emailed them too, I really wanted a GAP or a JP Ent rifle but ended up going with a group buy custom build by LRI in SD instead because I got no reply back from GAP and a email reply 3 weeks later from JP. I will look at both of these companies again in the future but this time around it did not work out (could be the government induced panic going on right now too). Customer service reputation keeps companies in the black during hard times.

 

[hayes1966]

I purchased a 10/22 stock from Rhineland several years ago and had no issues with them.

 

[NewsShooter]

Happy with my 17HMR savage stock, started painting it today.

 

[MarineMD]

Man, a lot of companies dropping the ball on customer service these days, hint to these guys, communication back to customers is key. Hell, with good comms and good products customers are most always willing to give the benefit of doubt to the companies, honesty is a plus too. Bad economy, money is tight, people are more careful what they spend their money on and dont like being dismissed or ignored after they are in a contract. I tried calling two of the most known companies that make great rifles a few months ago,,emailed them too, I really wanted a GAP or a JP Ent rifle but ended up going with a group buy custom build by LRI in SD instead because I got no reply back from GAP and a email reply 3 weeks later from JP. I will look at both of these companies again in the future but this time around it did not work out (could be the government induced panic going on right now too). Customer service reputation keeps companies in the black during hard times.

I have to agree with you here. LRI built one hell of a rifle for me at a significantly lower price and with good comms the whole way through. SAC has also had good comms and I am giving them a project, even though they're more pricey, because of this and their reputation on this site.

I was really interested in one of Rhineland stocks for a .22LR project, but I work tooo hard for my money to risk a couple hundred bucks. If I see a single bad review that's one thing, but when you start hearing all this stuff, I'd rather look elsewhere.

 

[russ10x]

Rhineland arms Leo stock

I ordered one last summer, had no issue and it came promptly for my Savage MK II

 

[LongArm]

very nice looking setup

 

[LongArm]

I purchased a 10/22 stock from Rhineland several years ago and had no issues with them.

Rhineland was sold to another co. named troup systems. I guess things changed from there on.

 

[gszeto99]

They have been called troup systems for a long time. I purchased a gen2 stock for my 10/22 back when they first came out and they were very prompt in addressing my concerns back then. They even delivered a second stock to me for me on their dime when the first one was not right. They did not even charge me for the second one they just told me to put the first one back in the box and return it to them with the enclosed shipping label after I got the second stock, which means return shipping for the first stock was also on their dime. They treated me very well so when I saw this post about them being a scam, I was a little puzzled.

 

[russ10x]

Thanks LA, shoots as good as it looks too!

 

[LongArm]

Good to know. I just wished mine would have came in. Now I am left with a trainer with a crappy stock. For those of you that received yours I am envious of you. If a person could make a aluminum frame that would bolt inside the aics/viperskins stock that would make bank. Or a larger aluminum chassis maker to make a 22lr trainer stock that is not shitty. If companies would do this they'd make bank.

 

[TimK]

I built a stock from an airsoft AICS. It turned out nice, but I decided to go with the Rhineland. I ordered Monday and it shipped Tuesday. Pretty snappy service in my case.

BTW, airsoft stock is for sale in the accessories section.

 

[enough]

I checked with Rhineland before I ordered mine. Received it 14 days after I paid. I understand others have not been so fortunate, but it never hurts to check with the manufacturer/seller before you plunk down your hard earned dollars.

I hope the OP comes to full and satisfactory conclusion.

 

[TimK]

Mine came yesterday, exactly 4 days from when I ordered.

It's very nice. The inletting was right on, and the adjustable cheekpiece and butt work well. If I could change one thing, I'd move the action back 1/2". The trigger was 3/4" forward measured from the grip compared to my AICS stocked Rem 700. I took a rasp to the grip and got that down to 1/2", but there's no way I can remove enough material to get the trigger in the same place. It's not a show stopper by any means, but it it the one thing I'd have different.

I like the unfinished version and the fact I can hack on it to get it just how I want it. Once I'm satisfied with the shape (and I'm done bedding it with Devcon), I'll paint it.

Good work, Rhineland.

 

[terrible tim]

It sounds like the safest way to do business with these people is to make sure they have inventory prior to placing an order. With their (lack of) communication skills, I would be hard pressed to spend my $ on a stock which takes too long to ship. Taking the money for an item prior to shipping indicates a cash flow problem as well in their business model. I guess I'll just wait to place an order. Glad I found this thread.

 

[Scimitar]

I ordered a psl stock set from them last year. The rear stock threaded inserts were not aligned properly. I called them them and received another free of charge. They didn't even ask for the old one back. (May have sent them a picture). Better service than I get from most companies. During the last year of severly increased sales across the board
in firearms, ammo and accessories, sometimes someone is going to drop the ball. That sucks, but from the service I received, I don't think the person/company was intentionally trying to screw you.

 

[zepheris.hk]

I placed an order for the Rhineland stock for my Savage MKII on Oct 23rd and received the stock yesterday. They were prompt with their email replies and always kept me in the loop. Payment to receipt of stock was about 19 days.

I am not affiliated with Rhineland in anyway, only wanted to post my positive experience with them in light of what has been said here. YMMV. But I was extremely pleased with their product and service received.

Fit and finish of the stock is excellent and I will be taking it out to the range this weekend. Can't wait!

 

[dragonflysix]

I've had nothing but good interactions with them

 

[JudasMac]

It's too bad hearing all this. I was just getting ready to put together another 10/22 build with them at the top of my list for a new stock. Like someone had previously stated. 1 or 2 bad reviews randomly well... that's normal as you can never make everyone happy. But all this, theres no way I'll send them my money... maybe if they shipped the stock first and I can pay on delivery :-D

 

[dragonflysix]

I got mine in about a week e mail them and make sure its in stock

 

[OpticsPlanet]

I'm getting ready to order another now. Never a hitch and absolutely fantastic work. My FV-SR turns heads everywhere I go.

Trevor B.

 

[LongArm]

I'm getting ready to order another now. Never a hitch and absolutely fantastic work. My FV-SR turns heads everywhere I go.

Trevor B.

Great order me one in left hand for the new savage mk2 and I'll pay you back. That is where my problem started I heard great things and then ordered one in left hand. From that point forward things went down hill fast.

 

[woogie_man]

Hate hearing things like this.

Though looking around their site I really wish they would make the 10/22 rail stock.

 

[Assault116]

I ordered one on Nov 21st and haven't heard anything from them on it yet, we'll see I guess.

 

[P47rr]

Well after a year they Finally made some Vepr stock sets. I ordered one. And received it thirty days later. They clearly state it includes the hand guard screw. In fact they call it the scary screw. M5X.5 screw. And you won’t find one anywhere. Well my stock set didn’t come with one. I have sent three emails. Once a week for the last three weeks. Any not a word. Filed a BBB complaint last week. Was planning on buying one of their firearms and a receiver. But as of now. I don’t think so. No response from a business is ridiculous.

 

[RTH1800]

10 plus year old thread and they are still in business?

 

[P47rr]

They are still in business for now. They responded on 05/24/2023. And said sorry. Screw will be sent. And it is June 7th. Nothing. I am not the only one that they responded to and never followed up. I did contact them as well on this forum. So I’m giving them one more week before I go nuclear.

 

[USCGNavig8tor]

Still in business and still not responding to emails to follow up on orders. I ordered a VEPR SVD stock on September 19, 2023. Paid at time of purchase. Haven't heard a word since and don't yet have the stock. I've emailed several times to ascertain the status of my order. Used their TroupSystems email, and a recently discovered Gmail address they have. Tracked down a phone number on the Interweb that went unanswered and no way to leave a voicemail. I tell you what - I'm so fed up with poor "customer service" these days. However, I don't know what chaffs my butt more, crappy customer service or getting ripped off.

I ordered a PSL stock from Rhineland back in 2017. Had it within a 10 days. Before I ordered the VEPR stock, I emailed them asked if the bolts on the cheek riser could be reversed for a LHS. They answered THAT email within a day. Now, after they got $$$ >>> crickets for the past two months.

In any case, I've informed Sniper's Hide users that Rhineland is still up to thier antics. Also let my peeps on on the M14 forum knoq. Spread the word - it's difficult to rip us off if we don't give them our business.

 

[P47rr]

They never sent my odd ball screw for my Vepr Stock handguard. I ended up buying a die and making my own. They did send a email saying they were going too. Which never showed up. Sent multiple emails after that. I posted on every YouTube video about their terrible customer service. I also filed a complaint with The BBB. I was lucky I even ended up with my stock set. The complaints on the BBB site our from people like you that did not receive anything. They also manufacture firearms. Not sure if they are reporting all of this stolen income on their taxes? It should be the ATF’s job to shutdown businesses like this one. I waited to long to have my credit card company to charge back. I felt guilty about charging back over a screw. Thought about calling the local Sherif. But over a screw seams a little over the top. But when I see them at the next Shotshow. I going to chew out the owner if he’s there. Or the next time I’m in Texas I’m going to stop in. And give them a piece of my mind.