Gunsmithing rifle builds

C

clintw

Private
Minuteman
Jun 28, 2009
6
0
40
stevensville, MT
#1
i am new here and mostly looking for information on building precision rifles, and by that i mean machining the receiver out of a piece of bar stock, turning the barrel ect. basically starting with a few pieces of metal and a barrel blank and turning it into a rifle. i was wondering if anyone on this forum remembered any post documenting people building there rifles. any help would be greatly appreciated
thanks
clint
 
#2
Re: rifle builds

Most people don't start with a block of steel. Typically, the starting point is either a factory action (such as a Rem 700, a Win M70, etc, etc) or a custom action (eg Surgeon, BAT, etc etc), a stock (typically synthetic and typically either McMillan or Manners) and a barrel (there are a lot such as... Rock, Krieger, Bartlein, Lilja, Hart, Schneider, etc, etc, etc). And then there is the bottom metal, mostly made by Badger but also Seekins and Surgeon, among others. Triggers, bases, and rings (and recoil lugs for some actions).

Nobody starts from scratch, there are favored vendors for each and then favored vendors (aka smiths) to put the whole thing together.

William from Louisiana Precision has put up a bunch of pictures showing how he trues and beds actions and reams barrels. These are always informative. Try the search function.
 
#3
Re: rifle builds

The smith building my 270WSM is building his own .50cal.....from bar stock like you speak of....but not sure where he got the plans of what to build. Also another thing that might tricky is the fact that you are manufacturing a firearm.....ATF will probably have their own opinion on that one. Sort of like selling Factory Manufactured ammo versus selling handloads....with handloads you are the manufacturer....whole other ball game. If you have serious interest I will ask the smith when I pick up my rifle.
 
#4
Re: rifle builds

you could start from scratch but then you would need an ffl for manufacturing firearms. also lots of research and development and tons of money. you can buy an aftermarket action for under $800 and have a lot less headaches.
 
#5
Re: rifle builds

some people do start from scratch. i don't think i have seen one on this site but have seen one at benchrest central: link. i am thinking i may have seen one on the practical machinist site also. it does sound like a fun project to me also. it is one of those things i would like to do someday, just not in the near future.
 
#6
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinarms</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you could start from scratch but then you would need an ffl for manufacturing firearms. also lots of research and development and tons of money. you can buy an aftermarket action for under $800 and have a lot less headaches. </div></div>

you don't need a ffl if you are making it for personal use any more than you would fitting a barrel to an existing action for personal use.

i say if you have the machinery, ability and time, go for it. not every one does something because it is easy. some people enjoy making things themselves even if there is an off the shelf option available. i don't see a whole lot of money being involved in making your own action if you are doing it as a hobby and not valuing your time.
 
#7
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clintw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i am new here and mostly looking for information on building precision rifles, and by that i mean machining the receiver out of a piece of bar stock, turning the barrel ect. basically starting with a few pieces of metal and a barrel blank and turning it into a rifle. i was wondering if anyone on this forum remembered any post documenting people building there rifles. </div></div>

Save your self a lot of grief and expense. The work and equipment required to true a receiver and chamber a rifle barrel should be enough for anyone. IMHO, to get it right would require a CNC Lathe and Mill, someone to write the programs and to run the machine. Ever price a CNC Haas Lathe or Mill................................
shocked.gif
Now you need either a raceway broaching machine or wire EDM $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ feeling the pain yet?

All of this for one receiver, that’s right, just the receiver, no barrel. Molds like the ones McMillan use are an easy $3,000.00 to produce, and you're going to do how many rifles?

Learn the process but do so with manual machines at first, it's very rewarding to see rifles you've built shoot in the low .2's with ease. Built right, they'll even go in the .1's and .0's. Good luck to you.
 
#8
#10
Re: rifle builds

i have access to cnc vertical mills, turning center, manual mills and lathes. also have access to a wire edm and ram edm, surface grinders and cylindrical grinder. and i can program for all of the cnc's. i work as a machinist and make allot of rifle parts for a local manufacture, bolts, recoil lugs, ejectors, ect. i however only make receiver tube blanks so i dont have a whole lot of experience in receivers, i dont really want to cut the locking lug raceways with the edm, its an older machine and it would take a day or more to cut 8 or 9inch thick piece of steel so i was going to make it a fat bolt type so it just has short locking lug behind the barrel threads in the front of the receiver that i can reach with a long 0.375 end mill, but im still debating that. iv seen one place where a guy used standard keyway broaches to cut the raceways but there's something's i would have to work out about that like needing small radiuses in the corners. but that's why im out here looking for other people that have built there own and with what results
 
#11
Re: rifle builds

oh and all of the negativity telling me its out of my reach is of great help . i cant afford a 7500$ rifle but i believe i can build one. and if my first one has problems ill improve on the next one. with the tolerances i have to hold on a normal work day i think i could produce a fine shooting rifle, iv read alot on chambering and crowning , and have recrowned a few barrels for friends with greatly improved accuracy so i must have got it at least somewhat right. i have access to all the equipment i could ever want to and my bosses dont care what i make on weekends and my off time if the machine is just sitting idle. i love the guns i do have and shooting is probly my top hobby why shouldn't i carry it over into my work life. thankyou for the links you have given me, i have seen most of them, it seems like there hasn't been to many machinist that have gone on this adventure and cared to document it on the internet, and the ones that build receivers and rifles for a living seem to keep there mouth shut. im looking for any help i can get
 
#12
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nobody starts from scratch, there are favored vendors for each and then favored vendors (aka smiths) to put the whole thing together.
</div></div>

ETA: This is the link to the 6mmBR thread

Some folks might disagree


I say if you have the tooling and knowhow, go for it. God knows I would if I had a shop.
 
#13
Re: rifle builds

If I were going to build my own I think that I'ed either do a direct copy of the Rem 700 or the Badger 2008 style ,the Dadger style using the "Breaching Ring" would probably be easier to machine.
 
#14
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brain</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nobody starts from scratch, there are favored vendors for each and then favored vendors (aka smiths) to put the whole thing together.
</div></div>

Some folks might disagree

I say if you have the tooling and knowhow, go for it. God knows I would if I had a shop. </div></div>

that is the one i was thinking was posted on practical machinist. it may have been there too but i can't find it now.




if you don't want to edm a standard two lug raceway, a full diameter, three lug bolt with an internal lug insert may be the way to go. i know i have seen drawings for one of those before on the internet. i have no idea where though.
 
#15
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clintw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh and all of the negativity telling me its out of my reach is of great help . </div></div>

Such gratitude.....

Maybe this is just guys with experience pointing out some of the pitfalls and trying to save you a painful and expensive learning curve?

If you don't want advice then don't ask the question....or at least make it clear that you have some skills and experience of the processes involved and access to some of the tools.

If I was one of the guys above who tried to help I'd be saying "F*** you!" and leave you to it.......

Just my £0.02
 
#17
Re: rifle builds

i didnt mean to be so ungrateful, and for that im sorry, i know theres some extremely knowledgeable people on here and i just wish they would speak up, i deal with a toolmaker at work that thinks nobody can do what he does and wont really help you in anyway. im looking for those that have been here and might help me, if not just to avoid common pitfalls of this project
 
#18
Re: rifle builds

My guess is most of the guys who build receivers--probably trued one or two factory actions before making the leap into manufacturing. You have stated that you have machined rifle parts---but do you have any knowledge whatsoever as to what it takes to put an accurate rifle together using somebody else's parts? Can you true an action? Do you know how to chamber a barrel, have you ever done so? Etc Etc Etc

I suggest you learn to walk before you enter the Boston marathon.
smile.gif
 
#19
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brain</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nobody starts from scratch, there are favored vendors for each and then favored vendors (aka smiths) to put the whole thing together.
</div></div>

Some folks might disagree

I say if you have the tooling and knowhow, go for it. God knows I would if I had a shop. </div></div>

Preston at Surgeon gets close. They make their own actions (with integral rail and lug), bottom metal, and rings. All they need to make is triggers and stocks and they would make the full meal deal. Of course, they have a full staff and all of the tools for the job.
 
#20
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clintw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">oh and all of the negativity telling me its out of my reach is of great help . </div></div>

Such gratitude.....

Maybe this is just guys with experience pointing out some of the pitfalls and trying to save you a painful and expensive learning curve?

If you don't want advice then don't ask the question....or at least make it clear that you have some skills and experience of the processes involved and access to some of the tools.

If I was one of the guys above who tried to help I'd be saying "F*** you!" and leave you to it.......

Just my £0.02 </div></div>

the problem i see is only a couple answered his question or tried to help. the rest just said buy one or it is too expensive. i simply don't see the major expense as long as you have access to the equipment and are doing it as a hobby and don't monetary value on your time.

maybe i was the only one to assume if he was looking for action build threads because he wanted to do one himself, he probably has access to more than a hacksaw and a dremel tool.
 
#21
Re: rifle builds

[soapbox]

What has happened to the industrious, innovative, and resourceful spirit in this country? Has it all given way to software, microchips, and the latest gadgets...or has a constant flood of instant gratification and entertainment brought about widespread laziness?

I see a real problem in innovation in this industry and have for a long while. Very rarely does someone come up with something truly new, or different enough to set it apart from the status quo. Those that do are able to capitalize on those who don't wish to bother, or those who were discouraged from innovation by naysayers.

Perhaps those who didn't find success in these types of ventures gave up too soon, or could it be that their mistakes along the way discouraged them from trying yet again. I'm sure that those who have found success didn't get it 100% correct the first time or have refined their process to make their product even better than the original.

Perhaps imagination, creativity, engineering, machining, or the hand file is beyond the grasp of some. CNC, EDM, laser, and the like have not been around very long and certainly not the first tools employed in the creation of many "modern" firearms. The lack of these tools should not halt forward progress as there is always more than one way around any given problem.

The learning curve is always steepest in the beginning, but even the most foreboding mountains have been summited. Ambition, aptitude, and perseverance can overcome many shortfalls in technology should they be applied liberally.

I don't have many resources in tooling. A basic bench, hand tools, files, etc and a one-room shed housing some metal fabrication tools. What I have been able to do given these limited resources has astounded some, impressed others, or been given a respectful nod by the seasoned. I'm not bragging, but putting into perspective what is possible with very little to work with.

God knows I would be making chips late into the night if given the resources. If you have them, don't let anything or anyone stand in your way of innovation.

[/soapbox]
 
#22
Re: rifle builds

i haven't chambered anything yet, iv read allot about it and watched a video by gordy gritters on it , i have recrowned a couple barrels so indicating the barrel in isn't all that foreign to me i have also built the spider for the back of one of the lathes, and i understand where the tolerances need to be kept and why. gordys logic in aligning the bore to the chamber along with the barrel threads as well as indexing the curve of the bore up makes allot of sense do understand where some of you make cost s concern, iv invested allot in my tool box and it doesn't even seem that well equipped. just a set of good 0-6inch mics are over 1000$ and just the couple of indicators equal the same or more. thank god for ebay.
 
#23
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brain</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nobody starts from scratch, there are favored vendors for each and then favored vendors (aka smiths) to put the whole thing together.
</div></div>

Some folks might disagree

I say if you have the tooling and knowhow, go for it. God knows I would if I had a shop. </div></div>

Preston at Surgeon gets close. They make their own actions (with integral rail and lug), bottom metal, and rings. All they need to make is triggers and stocks and they would make the full meal deal. Of course, they have a full staff and all of the tools for the job.</div></div>








i remember some years back being in the asshole of oklahoma shooting a rifle match.....and this redheaded-wild-man came up and was talking about this new action he was making....said it had twenty thousand line of code that he had written for it.....and made it out of a solid chunk of steel
 
#24
Re: rifle builds

Yepper it can be done. No FFL is needed for one off builds. That's how folks get away with shipping, receiving and finishing off 80% AR receivers with no serial numbers. Buy the jig, finish drilling the few holes and assemble.

A friend back home built his own .50BMG action several years ago. The project is shelved until he comes up with a barrel because he's way to cheap to just pony up and buy a blank.

Then he built a .22LR complete with a full aluminum chassis simular to the McRee just scaled down a little. It's really quite trick but he's working out a couple bugs with extraction.

You can do anything you want if you have the know-how and access to the right materials & equipment.

my .02¢
 
#25
Re: rifle builds

Brian:
Nice to see your get it done attitude. Solving problems is where new, inovative products come from. I'm working toward getting my Co to run well enough so I can go back to mostly protype work. That's what I like best. Working with bright engineers and solving problems!

Some of the newest gen optic/mech/electro units comming down the pike that used to be as big as a laundry basket will now fit in the palm of your hand and are no higher than your middle finger joint. Nice stuff!

Clint:
Not every toolmaker is an ass. Mostly we just loose tolerance! Sometimes, after years of "we the unwilling, with nothing ""--- gets old. Keep your nose and your head working. And by the way, there are plenty who will help you problem solve. Just ask around. It may take a few or more trys, but don't give up! Always think three or four steps ahead and you'll be fine.

Alan
 
#26
Re: rifle builds

another thing i know i have read but can't remember what forum or the exact topic of the threads was making a shaper to cut the camming surface on the internal bolt lugs in the receiver. there were some really cool pictures and ideas from that thread if you can find it. i really don't think it was on this forum though. maybe it was on practical machinist.
 
#27
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">another thing i know i have read but can't remember what forum or the exact topic of the threads was making a shaper to cut the camming surface on the internal bolt lugs in the receiver. there were some really cool pictures and ideas from that thread if you can find it. i really don't think it was on this forum though. maybe it was on practical machinist.</div></div>

I know the one you're talking about, the same guy posted it on practical machinist and 6mmbr gunsmithing forums. The one on 6mmbr is in a thread where the guy is building his own action of his own design, pretty neat. The thread is called "designing/machining own action" under the Advanced Gunsmithing and Engineering forum over at 6mmbr. He's put a lot of thought into it and is doing a good job with it.
 
#28
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clintw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i was wondering if anyone on this forum remembered any post documenting people building there rifles. any help would be greatly appreciated</div></div>

Clint,

"Brain" has already posted the link to the build diary on 6mmbr (including the tool for cutting the cam into the lug recesses). Here are some links to another project (fat bolt) on BR.com.

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52983
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59368
 
#29
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coriolis</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clintw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i was wondering if anyone on this forum remembered any post documenting people building there rifles. any help would be greatly appreciated</div></div>

Clint,

"Brain" has already posted the link to the build diary on 6mmbr (including the tool for cutting the cam into the lug recesses). Here are some links to another project (fat bolt) on BR.com.

http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52983
http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59368

</div></div>

that first link contains a great link in it that i forgot i had saved in my favorites. <a href="http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/boltaction.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">A Guide to Drilling, Reaming, and Broaching
a Bolt-Action Receiver at Home</a>
 
#30
Re: rifle builds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
i remember some years back being in the asshole of oklahoma shooting a rifle match.....and this redheaded-wild-man came up and was talking about this new action he was making....said it had twenty thousand line of code that he had written for it.....and made it out of a solid chunk of steel</div></div>

First comment: how do you know you are in the ass-hole of Oklahoma? Is it the part north of the Red River?

Second comment: a journey of a thousand miles starts with one step.
 
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