Rifle Cost

[CBlack]

Looking in the classifieds and seeing the "Paid this amount" and "selling for this" makes me wonder....

How much is too much for a precision rifle? Are prices inflated? Are guys/gals paying too much?

I went to well known builder for a quote; spec'd out my build and got a price of around $5600.

Went to a lesser known builder with the SAME parts and got a price of around $3100. This particular builder does ALL of my BIL's work and is 1/4 MOA or better.

Are we paying for name brands?

I have two builds in-situ. One I received a call from today about the cera-kote, so it should be ready shortly. The other is by a well known builder who does lots of agency and military work. Neither charge that $5500+ price.

Thoughts?

 

[stello1001]

I'm guessing most of the time you are paying really high prices because those rifle builders have really really good reputation. Another thing could be the service they provide even after the sale.

 

[Nik H]

Looking in the classifieds and seeing the "Paid this amount" and "selling for this" makes me wonder....

How much is too much for a precision rifle? Are prices inflated? Are guys/gals paying too much?

I went to well known builder for a quote; spec'd out my build and got a price of around $5600.

Went to a lesser known builder with the SAME parts and got a price of around $3100. This particular builder does ALL of my BIL's work and is 1/4 MOA or better.

Are we paying for name brands?

I have two builds in-situ. One I received a call from today about the cera-kote, so it should be ready shortly. The other is by a well known builder who does lots of agency and military work. Neither charge that $5500+ price.

Thoughts?

Are you supplying the parts to both of the smiths in question or are you relying on them to supply the parts that you specify?

 

[CBlack]

Are you supplying the parts to both of the smiths in question or are you relying on them to supply the parts that you specify?

Relying on them to supply the parts.

 

[CBlack]

I'm guessing most of the time you are paying really high prices because those rifle builders have really really good reputation. Another thing could be the service they provide even after the sale.

I know for a fact that my BILs bulider supports his work 100%. From what I know of the other builder, they do as well.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

@CBlack
I see your from Covington (There are NOT very many reputable builders in that area)....Who is the builder you are referring to in regards to your BIL using and such?

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[CBlack]

Trying to stay away from company names, but his builder is in Oklahoma.

 

[Nik H]

Relying on them to supply the parts.

A lot of the delta may be there. I never have a smith supply parts unless they do a complete price breakdown and I understand what I am paying for. This isn't always possible, especially, of the big reputation guys. They quote the rifle and you have to have faith.

An example of this is Mike at TacOps. He builds rifles based on a Remington action and gets a shit ton of money for them. Lots of people don't understand why until they see and fire one of his rifles. Amazing what a bag of not too special parts can be turned into by a master....and I don't own a TacOps but have fired one a few times.

 

[CBlack]

I can understand that. But I bought a rifle on this forum a few months ago. All parts were supplied to the builder. It's a magnum tack driver and a pleasure to shoot. I paid for essentially the parts. There are similar rifles for sale now that are listed at near double what I paid. What the original owner paid is even far less than some listed.

A lot of the delta may be there. I never have a smith supply parts unless they do a complete price breakdown and I understand what I am paying for. This isn't always possible, especially, of the big reputation guys. They quote the rifle and you have to have faith.

An example of this is Mike at TacOps. He builds rifles based on a Remington action and gets a shit ton of money for them. Lots of people don't understand why until they see and fire one of his rifles. Amazing what a bag of not too special parts can be turned into by a master....and I don't own a TacOps but have fired one a few times.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

What people tell you they paid for something and what they actually paid are typically NOT the same..especially when they are trying to sell it. At that point; of course they paid more than are selling it for . Not many would be buying if the seller outright said I have less money invested into this than I am asking for it.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[CBlack]

True! But based upon a quote I received in my first post I can believe the prices listed.

Hi,

What people tell you they paid for something and what they actually paid are typically NOT the same..especially when they are trying to sell it. At that point; of course they paid more than are selling it for . Not many would be buying if the seller outright said I have less money invested into this than I am asking for it.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Rust]

Build prices are determined by a lot of things. What is the smiths overhead in property taxes or rent, sales taxes, electricity, machinery costs, tooling costs, employee costs (social security matching, health insurance, wage/salary). Is the smith a part timer basically supporting smithing as a hobby with a regular job (I knew one such fellow who was very good) or is it his sole employment used to support his family. If he has to order parts of course he should charge you for his time just as anyone providing any service would. A group buy where for instance many of a part are done without having to changes jigs and tooling would decrease per unit cost whereas a single build would not. So I wouldn't expect pricing to be uniform across the board.

A really good smith who stands behind his work is generally worth whatever he asks for.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Yep, you pay for a name sometimes. Typically though, the name is well earned.

Who’s heard of guys like Gradous? Lots of people. There’s a reason for it. He does awesome work

Who’s heard of joe blow from bumfuck? Not many.

Which one can realistically charge more?

Once joe blow bumfuck gets so good he’s well known, unless he hates money, his prices will
Go up.

 

[physguy88]

I'm curious about this question too. Also, what do you gain from going to a builder vs getting an action like the Big Horn Origin, pre-fit barrels, a stock from a source like Manners, and just putting it all together yourself? Are you going to go from 1/2 MOA gun to a 1/4 MOA gun?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm curious about this question too. Also, what do you gain from going to a builder vs getting an action like the Big Horn Origin, pre-fit barrels, a stock from a source like Manners, and just putting it all together yourself? Are you going to go from 1/2 MOA gun to a 1/4 MOA gun?

As with most answers “it depends.”

Are the pre fits being checked individually, or batch/spot checked? If spot checked, the odds that something is off on your particular barrel goes up a bit. Part of the premium you pay a smith for is then individual attention to your rifle.

Is your manners a mini chassis or not? If not, you’ll definitely want to bed it and many skim bed the mini chassis still. Have you bedded your own rifles enough to do it efficiently? If you go with a chassis system, this is less of an issue.

How about tuning the trigger/bolt/cocking? Again, you’re paying for the smith’s knowledge.

Personally, I buy an action, then have smith chamber/install barrel and get the trigger timing where I’m happy with it. I do everything else, but “everything else” literally is me bolting it into a j Allen and attaching an optic.

Example of my parts (rounded up or down for easy math)

Impact Action: $1300
Barrel: 350
Chamber/thread: 350
Trigger: 250
Brake: 150
Jae: 1800

$4200.

So, I save at most $300 on a 4200 build going with a prefit. Not worth it to me. Maybe for other people.

You can obviously go cheaper with an mpa or something and that’s perfectly fine. A good manners + bedding is going to run somewhere in between, unless you can successfully do it yourself.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm curious about this question too. Also, what do you gain from going to a builder vs getting an action like the Big Horn Origin, pre-fit barrels, a stock from a source like Manners, and just putting it all together yourself? Are you going to go from 1/2 MOA gun to a 1/4 MOA gun?

You can also save a boatload of cash in the long run with a chassis. Two bolts and it’s on or off.

I currently have 2 jae that I run between 4 actions.

 

[wade2big]

You can also save a boatload of cash in the long run with a chassis. Two bolts and it’s on or off.

I currently have 2 jae that I run between 4 actions.

You can do that with a stock as well. Dont bed them. I don’t. I like having complete rifles though. Scope and all.

 

[DrainTheSwamp]

Sometimes you’re paying for the speed of the build as well. Guys with good reputations generally have quality components on hand so you don’t have to wait for the smith to receive parts from a manufacturers, and they will generally meet the given lead times.

This doesn’t apply all the time but something to consider.

On the prefit subject, I’m waiting on a remage rock creek from PVA, I’m assuming it will be a tack driver so the 300 bucks I saved was worth it to me... so far yes.

 

[beretta_man11]

I'm immediately turned off a gunsmith when comparing their chambering and bedding prices. If GAP is charging less than $300 for each item, and a lesser know, newer guy is trying to charge the same or more, I'm out.

 

[m6z]

Good, fast or cheap? Pick two.

It a somewhat accurate statement. The guys that do good work and are lower priced are going to have long lead times. Other smiths charge a premium, but will get the work done faster.

I'm a good and cheap kind of guy.

 

[pmclaine]

The guy that costs more gets more because people are willing to pay the price.

The guy that gets less asks for less and he is able to find people that will pay the price.

Both will continue to raise their price to the point their market is satiated.

If you feel "name" matters than you will pay that premium or maybe not - perhaps you can find a name that charges less but really its not the name you are buying. If the "name" becomes popular you are paying for the "demand" to be associated with the name. The builders price reflects that he is approaching his capacity to work and prices will go up reflecting his "overtime" or loss of "opportunity" to do other things in his life that matter to him.

You dont think the builder likes to shoot his own guns? Well he does but he cant because he has to build everyone else's rifles so he is going to charge for the impact on his life.

Econ 101 its pure mystical rocket science.........not really. Adam Smith made it easy with "the invisible hand".

Not crapping on your question just trying to show the answer is simple.

Now where it gets screwy is when you have a shit builder that commands high prices and there is a disconnect between product and price. That is "irrationality".

Certain builder in FL is guilty of taking advantage of "irrationality" and sued HMFIC.

 

[pmclaine]

I'm immediately turned off a gunsmith when comparing their chambering and bedding prices. If GAP is charging less than $300 for each item, and a lesser know, newer guy is trying to charge the same or more, I'm out.

What if one is using an automated method, has the name and produces every rifle to the same cookie cutter spec.

What if the other is a one man show using analog methods but takes your personal brass and tailors the chamber to your specific need?

Is there good reason for the difference?

 

[lte82]

Gunsmithing is probably one of the lowest paid professions out there with a ton of risk, and yet most people still think they charge too much. Fickle market, whiney customers, low potential salary, high overhead... Unless you follow the business model of say GAP or can command a ton of money for your service, you aren't going to make much and there is a lot of potential to end up in financial ruin.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm immediately turned off a gunsmith when comparing their chambering and bedding prices. If GAP is charging less than $300 for each item, and a lesser know, newer guy is trying to charge the same or more, I'm out.

Most smiths include barrel threading in their chambering costs. If I remember correctly, gap is separate cost for chamber, and separate for threads, making it more overall.

You also have to take into account how much business gap is doing. It’s like saying “if Walmart can sell it at this price, why can’t bob’s corner market sell it for that?”

 

[pmclaine]

Most smiths include barrel threading in their chambering costs. If I remember correctly, gap is separate cost for chamber, and separate for threads, making it more overall.

You also have to take into account how much business gap is doing. It’s like saying “if Walmart can sell it at this price, why can’t bob’s corner market sell it for that?”

That would be "economies of scale".

I love it when my college education actually allows me to use some of those words I heard.

 

[Kickin45]

It’s like Honda/Acura, Toyota/Lexus, VW/Audi. All the same manufacturer, but one of the 2 names has some stigma attached to it compared to the other, even though they use the same parts, just put a different name on it. They all perform well, but one has a lot more ooh and ahh behind the name.

 

[Fig]

Nobody's mentioned big name vs resale. Your "custom" rifle is going to sell for a lot less than you paid to have it built for you no matter what. However, if you buy from a well known builder in a fairly standard configuration (for that builder) your resale is going to be a lot higher than a rifle with some funky features you wanted from some unknown guy; even if it shoots straight.

You're not going to get as much out of a factory gun that's trued or blueprinted gun either. By that I mean that there is almost a zero return on the custom work you have done to a factory rifle.

The best value is generally the standard configuration from a well known builder. The more you deviate from that the harder it will be to sell and the less you will get.

 

[steve123]

We???

Sometimes certain customers could care less that a rifle costs $5600, small price considering their large income. Heck their shotgun was $20,000 or more. I know a guy that has a secret room with half a million in firearms inside it. Another with over a millions worth with a few serial # 1's and 2's. Looking down from the top of the heap...

The other extreme, the majority here, think $5600 is totally unacceptable and is unaffordable anyway. Looking up...

4 years ago I suggested a friend use a GS, a big and expensive shop a couple of hours away from him that has a good rep. He had his family heirloom M700 turned into a 260R custom hunting rife for way too much money, IMO. Bolt is sticky with light loads??!! Those expensive shops aren't perfect.

I sold my nice old original custom M700 for $100 less than what I paid for it to a friend after using it for 8 years. I bought it used at what I thought was a good deal and went through 4 barrels in it and I could have sold it for more at the time. Looking straight across...

Other than the barrel work I put my custom actioned rifle together myself, easy! Now I'm trying a prefit, it shoots a tad better, but 6mmBR does help in that way. But I'm looking up more than I used to.

I'm quite sure I couldn't shoot the difference between a expensive rifle and my budget custom.

DIY, has become more common place the last few years for sure, thankfully.

Don't get me wrong, I have my build fantasies that involve hand fitted and hand engraved super fancy wood blanks , etc. The day might come or it might not, but I'd pay that kind of big money for the gunsmithing and stock work, if I was somewhat looking down.

 

[SonicBurlap]

Thank God we live in a free society (at least so far still) where you can spend your money on whatever you like. There will always be a rifle that costs more than what you just paid for what you at the time considered the 'ultimate best;' that is one of the things I've learnt in all my years shooting. Question is do you want to participate in that Joneses competition, and how much are you willing to plunk down for less than an inches worth of difference in accuracy? If you need that $8,000 lead slinger to have confidence you can hit your target and be happy about it, by all means buy one; if you can be just as happy with a factory rifle that can hit your target a half MOA further off which was my experience living with an Uncle Sam provided rifle for many years, even better for you. If someone needs to gain that confidence from owning a big name custom gun, or if they just happen to buy one because they can I'm happy for them. Personally, even if I had at my disposal the riches accumulated by some oil industry magnates, or cyber snake oil salesmen I think I'd still rather tinker around myself with an assembly of great parts, or see how far I could take a solid factory rifle. It's just more fun and if it works for you it ain't stupid, that goes for those gentlemen who need a special security detail for their rifle because of value as well. To each his own, God I love living in America!

 

[RTH1800]

Buyers are getting more knowledgeable, more selective and more price conscious. Both in new and secondary markets. They are also a bit tighter fisted overall.
In the past, if you had a KMW built on a Surgeon action it simply sold. Now potential buyers want a different color mixture in stock or shorter barrel.
Selling tactical rifles is darn competitive today.
Scopes and accessories are even tougher.

 

[RTH1800]

I’m also sure buyers are getting more demanding on builders as well. All aspects. Parts, labor cost, delivery times, build quality etc. Natural progression as builder options and standardized semi customs flourish.

 

[lte82]

I'm amazed at the level of lowballing that is on SH. I swear you could list something for free, and someone would message you asking if that's your lowest price.

 

[RTH1800]

Some offer to split shipping on the free stuff. ?

 

[Robert Gradous]

Hey guys I've been on both sides of the fence.
I know there's many good Smith's available to do work some at 1/3 less than what I charge.
How many of you bought a new car or truck this year and thought maybe next time I'll have to buy used do to the price tag.
I'm sure that I have over a million dollars invested in equipment and building not counting land or a mile of three phase power down the highway.
Along the way I figured out that I can only build so many guns a year my average is less than 45 so at 1500 dollars labor each that's a gross of 65,500,,,, you do the math,,,, - tooling - electric - depreciation - insurance - maintenance....
I love what I do but talk about a bad investment.
As for prefits or bolt in and play I think their great and I offer them,,,, but,,,, I can't do one for 160 dollars and feed my family ect.
I hope that I can always offer a more turnkey product with inavaction, reliability and accuracy.
Thanks to EVERYONE that's HELPED me be successful.
Robert Gradous Gradous Rifles

 

[steve123]

Hey guys I've been on both sides of the fence.
I know there's many good Smith's available to do work some at 1/3 less than what I charge.
How many of you bought a new car or truck this year and thought maybe next time I'll have to buy used do to the price tag.
I'm sure that I have over a million dollars invested in equipment and building not counting land or a mile of three phase power down the highway.
Along the way I figured out that I can only build so many guns a year my average is less than 45 so at 1500 dollars labor each that's a gross of 65,500,,,, you do the math,,,, - tooling - electric - depreciation - insurance - maintenance....
I love what I do but talk about a bad investment.
As for prefits or bolt in and play I think their great and I offer them,,,, but,,,, I can't do one for 160 dollars and feed my family ect.
I hope that I can always offer a more turnkey product with inavaction, reliability and accuracy.
Thanks to EVERYONE that's HELPED me be successful.
Robert Gradous Gradous Rifles

I'll tell yuh, I'd much much rather give my business to the smaller one man shop like you than some others I can think of. Or a few of the gunsmiths I've ran across that did a crappy job.

I didn't like what I did for a living at all, well except that I did it with pride in workmanship, looked great when I finished, was done right, lasted long, and I used higher grade materials, which eats profit compared to the blow and go's. It was a living and that's all.

Shoot me a price on a prefit please.

 

[wade2big]

I'm amazed at the level of lowballing that is on SH. I swear you could list something for free, and someone would message you asking if that's your lowest price.

It depends what you think is a low ball offer. I think more people are asking too much than offering to little. If you have bumped your item 32times and it hasn’t sold then you are asking too much. If you have turned down 10 offers that are considerably less than your asking price then you are asking too much. Your item is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

Some people think that anything less than what they are asking is “low balling them”. I’m not willing to deal with an individual to save $300 on a $2600 rifle. I also don’t want to pay you $330 for a $375 stock. If you don’t like my offer and we are ways off then say so. I can either come up, you can come down, or both. If not then no deal. That’s how negotiations work.

I buy and sell plenty on this site and others. More than I should. Lol

 

[Diboe77]

As with most answers “it depends.”

Are the pre fits being checked individually, or batch/spot checked? If spot checked, the odds that something is off on your particular barrel goes up a bit. Part of the premium you pay a smith for is then individual attention to your rifle.

Is your manners a mini chassis or not? If not, you’ll definitely want to bed it and many skim bed the mini chassis still. Have you bedded your own rifles enough to do it efficiently? If you go with a chassis system, this is less of an issue.

How about tuning the trigger/bolt/cocking? Again, you’re paying for the smith’s knowledge.

Personally, I buy an action, then have smith chamber/install barrel and get the trigger timing where I’m happy with it. I do everything else, but “everything else” literally is me bolting it into a j Allen and attaching an optic.

Example of my parts (rounded up or down for easy math)

Impact Action: $1300
Barrel: 350
Chamber/thread: 350
Trigger: 250
Brake: 150
Jae: 1800

$3400.

So, I save at most $300 on a 3400 build going with a prefit. Not worth it to me. Maybe for other people

You can obviously go cheaper with an mpa or something and that’s perfectly fine. A good manners + bedding is going to run somewhere in between, unless you can successfully do it yourself.

Isn't that a 4200 dollar build? Or is my math way off?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Isn't that a 4200 dollar build? Or is my math way off?

Typo on my part somehow. Coincidentally, it’s closer to 3400 for any build not using a jae.

 

[Diboe77]

Typo on my part somehow. Coincidentally, it’s closer to 3400 for any build not using a jae.

Cool I thought I was screwing that up at first, I know what you mean

 

[JimLee]

Why does one tattoo artist charge $50 an hour and another $250 an hour for the same ink? The difference could be nothing, or it could be the difference between a jailhouse scribble and a piece of art.

 

[CBlack]

After being the in the air on the road this week, I finally have some time to catch up...

Some great responses here and I respect all, especially coming from Mr. Gradous.

As expected there are a lot of various degrees of opinion on the issue.

I guess what it comes down to is who you trust and what your expectations are.

Since I've started this thread I've received a phone call and an email on the cerakote color I'd like on my barreled action.

I can't wait to share the pics and specs with everyone.