Rifle for sniper challenge

[ForgeValley]

I'd like to participate in some of the multi day sniper challenges over the next couple of years, and looking for a rifle more suited to these than my comp rifle, which comes in at around 15lbs. I can't see humping that and the other equipment required, so I'm taking a look at some of the newer chassis rifles, like the Christensen MPR and the Fix. Both those are ~ 8lbs for the 22" 6.5, and that sounds more do-able for my old bones. Looking for feedback on those two in particular, and any others that I should consider? Thanks gentlemen!

 

[Bender]

Just my two cents, but I think a heavier rifle absorbs recoil and allows for spotting your own shots much better. I have been an RO add a few bigger matches, I’ve seen guys humping 26”+ 300 win mags with NF Beast size scopes (huge) with 9” cans, and a full ruck sack. They shot well though. Yes, one could make an 8lbs rifle to pack around, but you better be really good at recoil management or shoot a hot short action 6/.243, Either way is doable, but don’t be afraid of a large rifle, I have seen lots of them be very competitive.

 

[mpk1996]

depends on if you want to build custom or just buy. I think the seekins Havok is a great rifle and good weight for this. if I were gong to just buy a rifle, that would be it in the cal you want. add a nice break and you are in. if you want build look at lighter stocks from manners and McMillian (both have an all CF setup that saves some weight) a short action with a barrel in the rem varm size. that will be big enough to take some heat from strings of fire, but not a heavy palma weight. you also have to look on which ones you want to go to and what they allow or what class you want to shoot. I think something like a 223 AI would work well as the ammo is light and the rifle will be very low recoil. but if I had to spot a lot of misses and/or targets didn't have light react type systems it might be harder. otherwise the light weight 6mm will be king. That is unless of course you want to shoot tactical and then its a 308.

 

[Wyfox]

The Sniper Adventure Challenge here in Wyoming is very little shooting, mostly land nav. You'll want something that is light, compact, and accurate. You'll be rucking it way more than you'll be shooting it. That new Manners CS compact stock in elite carbon shell with a short Proof barrel in a fast 6mm would be my choice.

 

[shax2lex]

I recently shot the Bushnell Sniper Challenge in SC. It was a blast and a great learning opportunity. Most people’s first thought is to the rifle but I would say it needs to first go to being in shape to do the event. For whatever equipment you carry, you need to be able to make the rucks in the time allowed. Missing the first ruck time because you weren’t in shape can ruin the rest of your event.

As for the rifle, the caliber is up to you. The weight is up to what you want to carry. Because pounds equal pain, go as light as you can reliably stand. Make sure your equipment can work rain or shine, hot or cold. It rained on us and we still shot. Reliability is key and be prepared to bang your rifle around. The rifles I saw weren’t safe queens. I did see some shorter barrel 6.5CM and folding chassis rifles. I liked their ideas. Just my two sense.

 

[ForgeValley]

I'm much more confident in my rucking and land nav skills than I am in my long distance shooting, I'm new to the precision game, having been in the AR world all my life. Not saying there aren't precise AR's, but you know what I mean... I've shot with buddies who are impressed when they hit at 100 yards with their CQB carbines .

Hey shax2lex, I actually just joined the range where the Bushnell was held, but there was no way I was up to doing that one yet. I'm up in Western NC, so we may be fairly close. Still trying to get a feel for the long range opportunities around here.. seems to be some matches put on by Wheaton Arms that I will do this spring, and a couple of close by sniper challenges. I'm also looking at the Purgatory Sniper Challenge this fall in Georgia.

Thanks for all the responses guys, keep them coming.

 

[littlehendrick]

Shot Mammoth while lugging around an AI AT in 308. The rifle was fantastic for shooting at 19 LBS with glass/can. My ruck weight, with 160rds of ammo, food, and gear was near 55lbs (with rifle). I have the outdoor equipment that is lighter (ice climbing, another very expensive hobby), so that helped keep the weight down.

Take a look at the rules of the comps, some (like mammoth) only allow 556/308 for the secondary shooter.

308 Ammo is heavy compared to 6mm stuff. Little stuff adds up, the bullet difference between 175gr and 105gr for 160rds is over 1.6lbs. That, with less recoil and better ballistics, might be an option. With a lighter recoiling caliber, it will reduce the impact of a lighter weight gun of how it feels.

But beyond anything else, train hard for the events. No rifle, super cool gear, or lightweight tent will be more helpful than the mental toughness to slog through the distance under heavy load in conjunction with physical fitness.

If you just want an excuse for another rifle (who doesn’t?), determine what features you consider absolute must haves, versus “nice to have.” Find the lightest weight stock you can that has the features, and pair it with a barreled action that is built under the idea of weight. Heck , get something cool like the new Nucleus action, use a 6mm creedmoor barrel for the comps, and a 6.5 SAUM barrel since you would have a fantastic lightweight hunting rifle.

Sorry for the ramblings, best of luck in your choices, there are so many great options!

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

My partner and I ran Mammoth a few years back (the cold one) and it was a great kick in the dick. Honestly you really shouldn't be much over 45-50lb with the ruck, there just isn't a need for it if you pack smart. Mammoth that year got down to -2 degrees and while shitty I'm not sure adding anything to the load out would have helped. One thing I would have changed was the rifle. I ran a modified RPR from a sponsor with a Mk6 3-18x44 and fully loaded, it was right around 14 to 14.5 lbs. For a .308 I think this is a good weight to counter balance recoil in alt-postions but the .308 was over kill. Pretty much all but maybe one stage for the secondary shooter was 800 yard and in. A 18-20" AR15 in 5.56x45mm pushing 77gr. SMKs would have been able to easily handle 95% of the engagements With the lighter recoil, you could easily get down into the 10 lbs. range, plus all your ammo weight is cut by about 66%.

Again you should easily be able to get your ruck to 45lbs. or less even in harsh conditions and extra whiskey for the boys. Don't be the guy carrying a 19-20lbs rifle, unless you want to be, or you're trying to soak up .338LM recoil. And on the other end if you try to run super light weigh you could find the rifle more demanding, I mean you can do it but you better put in the work before hand.

Also, look at cutting body weight. Its actually not to hard even if you in shape, most of us easily have 5-10lbs. we could drop in a few week just by changing up the diet without sacrificing performance . I've seen more than a few dudes that could have easily afforded to drop 15-20 lbs, and all that weight adds up over 30+ miles.

 

[ForgeValley]

Guess I went with the 'build' option.

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[diablodawg]

I have run the SAC and Mammoth. Both require much different guns. SAC is as advertised, an adventure race with guns. My partner (primary shooter) carried a custom 700 that weighed in around 8lbs total. I ran a purpose-built AR around 6.5 lbs. Both of us are looking to cut weight. Distance isn't far- out to 1k-ish against not tiny targets. Not alot of fast shooting to worry about barrel heat. 40-50mi of rucking makes every ounce count. Mammoth is much more shooting oriented, but I would still be conscious of weight; not making a ruck time is almost like DQ'ing. Mammoth has more stuff you need to carry, but short distances, albeit heavier and faster. I carried a RPR and while it could be lighter, it didn't hold me back. The 2nd place team this year both carried boat anchor M40A6's, FWIW. While I don't know if you want to do it with one rifle, one chasis and different barreled actions might be the way to go.

 

[shipereyes445]

bought the CZ750 recently and have been to the range with it a few times now. I read some of the other replies here, and I must say:

I am not a CZ fanatic or anything - this is my first CZ firearm. I don’t know much about the 550 other than it is a lower-end model of the CZ line. I do know that the 750 is a great firearm and I am generally happy with mine. Yea the price tag is hefty, but for the performance and features that I was looking for, I could not find anything better. There are similar rifles made by AI ($5000) and FN ($2800) and I am an FN fan, but neither of those compared in features to the CZ, and the CZ was cheaper. I know I will likely get flagged by the guys advocating the Remington 700 and at half the cost, it is a great deal. However, with its myriad of options and trim levels, the 700 did not offer the combination of features that I wanted and taking a new gun to a gunsmith to modify did not sound like fun.

My wish list:
.308
Bolt Action
Heavy sniper barrel made of gun steel
Floating composite stock
Cheek Plate
Built-in bipod rail/system
Set trigger system
Detachable 10+rd mag
Threaded barrel a plus.

A few facts - The 750 is often confused with its outdated predecessor the 700. The 700 is an obsolete model. The 750 is sold in 4 configurations. The S1 has a longer barrel (20" I think) whereas the S2 has a shorter one (16in I think). The M1 is the police/sniper version with synthetic (not wood laminate as the 700) adjustable stock, threaded barrel and 10rd mags whereas the M2 is the hunting version with a wood grain non-adjustable stock, non-threaded barrel and 4rd mags. My particular gun is the M1S1.

I must admit that I do not have much experience with bolt-action 308's prior to this gun, so it is hard to compare. I will say that the gun is a hell of a lot more accurate than I am! At 100 yards I was able to place 5 rounds into the same hole! Shooting 20 rounds of boat tail hollow point match ammo from a seated bench, the spread was .5 MOA, as advertised by CZ! People have reported that 5rd groups at 300 yards often come within .25 MOA. I also shot FMJ match Federal, Black Hills and a box of some cheap hunting stuff. I must say, that although the difference was marked, it was not huge. The gun spits out cheap ammo with AWESOME accuracy. The hunting soft tip stuff recorded around 1 MOA.

The problems:

The mag design is horrible! They are single-stack boxes and loading the rounds in them is much more problematic than it has to be. Furthermore, the mags don’t snap into the gun all that well. And even when they "feel OK", I would go to load the gun just to see that my bullet is about 1/8" too low to go into the ramp. A few times I even had the mag fall out after firing the rifle... When inserted, the mags still fell lose – very frustrating! I found out that loading the mag with the front end slightly angled upward, greatly reduces the problems, but this is annoying. This is something that I will need to remedy.

The other issue is that the adjustment points on the rifle - the cheek plate and the butt plate will not stay in place. They move ever so slowly to where the movement is noticeable with the naked eye after about 30 shots. I may just need to wrench them down harder - I have read that other owners advocated the use of lock-tite... Lock-tite sounded great until I discovered that the cheek plate has to be all the way down to remove the bolt from the gun for cleaning. This does not seem like a huge problem though – I think wrenching the bolts down more than I have been willing, will resolve the problem.

Overall I am VERY happy with the rifle! I have put about 160 rounds through it now and this is by far the most accurate thing that I have ever owned. Now I need to go to the gym so that I can shoot the thing from a standing position. 12 pounds does not sound like all that much, but try holding it steady while aiming through a 24x scope and thoughts of the gym creep into your mind...

 

[300ATT]

I recently took delevry of a what I call a "GoLite" PRS rifle from MileHigh that weighs in at 11.2 lbs ready to go. Am becoming a big fan of the GoLite approach as compared to my 17+ lbs match rifles.

In hindsight, it would have been much cheaper to reduce the total "system" weight by 20 pounds by eating less and exercising more ... but not as fun.

 

[MTSLW]

Check out the MacBros new Titanium Action, I felt one at SHOT and it was super smooth. Suppose to weigh in at around 20oz. I think that would be the ticket for run and gun matches.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Guess I went with the 'build' option.

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Is that one of the DLC'd actions from CORE?

 

[ForgeValley]

Yes it is. I've decided not to chase the lowest weight option, but try to come in at some reasonable compromise between a 17 pound beast and an 8 pound featherweight. Looking at chassis and barrel options now. I'll post up what I come up with.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

So me and a friend did the Mammoth Sniper Challenge 2 years ago. The really freaking cold one!

Everything that I could have done wrong...I did wrong. I wore summer boots the whole time, and we carried 3 days worth of MREs. There's a reason there are arctic MREs; the normal ones turn into heavy frozen TV dinners. We carried military issued everything. I think we outright had the heaviest packs of the whole group. It was thoroughly miserable.

There's a lot more weight and convenience that can be saved with good outdoor gear. A good down jacket saves a huge bit of weight. A good sleeping back is a few more pounds. Freeze dried meals would have been 8lbs of savings.

Actually being in good shape would have helped too. I didn't do any rucking because we decided to go a week before the match. Lactic acid nearly killed me on the first day.

My best advice rifle wise would be to take the action you have, put it in a McMillan A3 style stock, and have the LRI lightweight hardware put into it. A medium palma barrel at 26 inches in some form of 6.5mm, and a 5-25 scope. You don't need to save weight at the rifle, just don't make it too heavy at the same time.

There is so much more advantage to be gained by being in good shape, and being well practiced at being able to access all of your gear and make sure it works. A good spotting scope is worth it. Knowing how to use it as well is useful. You need to be able to immediatly get your mind off of rucking mode and switch to shooting mode and quickly game a stage. Mammoth hardly gives you any time to really prepare for a stage; you get the breif once so you better be paying attention.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Yes it is. I've decided not to chase the lowest weight option, but try to come in at some reasonable compromise between a 17 pound beast and an 8 pound featherweight. Looking at chassis and barrel options now. I'll post up what I come up with.

Wise move.

I'd suggest the MPA BA Lite chassis and a medium palma barrel. The MPA's dominate in the competition world and for good reason, they're purposely built for comps and IMO the best of the chassis that are purposely built. The light gives you most of what makes the MPA comp chassis so great while weighing just under 3lbs. That's only a few ounces more than a carbon fiber stock + a good DBM and bedding weighs.

Medium palma will give you plenty of rigidity while not being overly heavy.

You should be able to keep the rifle around 10-11lbs before adding optic, mount and bipod with these parts depending on what barrel length and caliber you go with.