I am looking for an accurate hunting rifle that is lighter weight but still a magnum caliber (.300 or 7mm). I have been doing some reading and it seems as if the 7mm mag would be the way to go as it is a bit more accurate. The rifle will be used for some hunting (deer) and target shooting. Right now I am considering either a Savage, Tikka, or Kimber. However, I have read some things about the Kimber's accuracy (and the price) that make me want to drop it from the list. I would like to get something accurate out of the box with a good trigger as I don't want to spend more money on it. I am not looking for the best rifle ever. I just want something that is accurate, doesn't weigh a ton, and is of decent quality. My budget for rifle + scope is $1500ish.
Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
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Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
Get a Remington Model 7 in 7mm SAUM, ditch the stock and drop it in a McMillan from the "Specials" page, good glass in a Talley one-piece LW mount, then shoot the crap out of it.
Get a Remington Model 7 in 7mm SAUM, ditch the stock and drop it in a McMillan from the "Specials" page, good glass in a Talley one-piece LW mount, then shoot the crap out of it.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
Get a Remington 700P 7mm Rem Mag or 300 WM. 1000
Seekins base 90
vortex viper scope 400
swfa's site has valdada heavy duty rings for 105 or Mark 4 for 150.
It's a little over your budget, by 95$ but not a bad versitle rig. I would get the 7mm Rem Mag however I like 7mm so I'm biased
Get a Remington 700P 7mm Rem Mag or 300 WM. 1000
Seekins base 90
vortex viper scope 400
swfa's site has valdada heavy duty rings for 105 or Mark 4 for 150.
It's a little over your budget, by 95$ but not a bad versitle rig. I would get the 7mm Rem Mag however I like 7mm so I'm biased
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
If you are only shooting white tail I would get a 700P 308 package off the for sale board. They come up quite often for a good price. The 308 ammo will be cheaper than the magnums and will afford you more range time.....Just a thought
If you are only shooting white tail I would get a 700P 308 package off the for sale board. They come up quite often for a good price. The 308 ammo will be cheaper than the magnums and will afford you more range time.....Just a thought
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
I would look hard at a Tikka. Spend the extra cash on a good scope.
For a light weight hunting rifle I would stay away from the mags if you are wanting to target shoot.
300 WSM would be a good choice for hunting if you want easy access to factory rounds and you have to have a magnumn.
On the other hand. Pick up a good remington 700 5R (308 WIN)used for say around 800. They are light in weight and are very accurate. I feel the 5R would be the best choice.
I would look hard at a Tikka. Spend the extra cash on a good scope.
For a light weight hunting rifle I would stay away from the mags if you are wanting to target shoot.
300 WSM would be a good choice for hunting if you want easy access to factory rounds and you have to have a magnumn.
On the other hand. Pick up a good remington 700 5R (308 WIN)used for say around 800. They are light in weight and are very accurate. I feel the 5R would be the best choice.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pancakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have been doing some reading and it seems as if the 7mm mag would be the way to go as it is a bit more accurate.</div></div>
this made me giggle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pancakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have been doing some reading and it seems as if the 7mm mag would be the way to go as it is a bit more accurate.</div></div>
this made me giggle
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
Here's another suggestion:
Get a .270 Tikka Varmint Stainless. Load up with 130gr SST's for devestating results on deer (the cartridge really seems to drop deer very effectively - all mine I've shot with it have dropped on the spot) and load with the slippery 135 SMK's for a bit of target work. Out of the box it'll happily shoot .5 MOA with the right load work.
I love shooting my 300 WM but I think its too much for deer unless your taking shots over long distance.
The Tikka varmint stainless with a decent scope is a great hunting package that can be carried all day but still good enough for targets too with its heavy barrel. By all means get it in 300WM but it'll kick hard and ruin meat.
Here's another suggestion:
Get a .270 Tikka Varmint Stainless. Load up with 130gr SST's for devestating results on deer (the cartridge really seems to drop deer very effectively - all mine I've shot with it have dropped on the spot) and load with the slippery 135 SMK's for a bit of target work. Out of the box it'll happily shoot .5 MOA with the right load work.
I love shooting my 300 WM but I think its too much for deer unless your taking shots over long distance.
The Tikka varmint stainless with a decent scope is a great hunting package that can be carried all day but still good enough for targets too with its heavy barrel. By all means get it in 300WM but it'll kick hard and ruin meat.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pancakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have been doing some reading and it seems as if the 7mm mag would be the way to go as it is a bit more accurate.</div></div>
this made me giggle
</div></div>
So, am I right?
I was talking to someone today and he said the 7mm is more picky than .300 with bullet weight. I am planning to reload. I have started acquiring some reloading equipment. A friend has helped with all of my reloading so far.
I know that .308 would be less expensive to shoot, but...I like the kick, the bang, and the bullet that goes a long ways... Probably not a very good excuse.
I also found a Zeiss Conquest 3x9 on sale ($100 off)at Cabellas for $400 (and I've got a coupon for $40 off that). That has got me thinking about a scope. It has the regular z plex reticle (no elevation markings). The 3x9 with the elevation markings is $575.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pancakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have been doing some reading and it seems as if the 7mm mag would be the way to go as it is a bit more accurate.</div></div>
this made me giggle
So, am I right?
I was talking to someone today and he said the 7mm is more picky than .300 with bullet weight. I am planning to reload. I have started acquiring some reloading equipment. A friend has helped with all of my reloading so far.
I know that .308 would be less expensive to shoot, but...I like the kick, the bang, and the bullet that goes a long ways... Probably not a very good excuse.
I also found a Zeiss Conquest 3x9 on sale ($100 off)at Cabellas for $400 (and I've got a coupon for $40 off that). That has got me thinking about a scope. It has the regular z plex reticle (no elevation markings). The 3x9 with the elevation markings is $575.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
No you are not correct. The 300WM has a long lineage as a long range sniper / competition round that speaks for itself.
I think either will do the job for you (what do you consider accurate??) the important thing is learning how to shoot either calibre well without developing bad habbits caused by the recoil.
Still think you're going for overkill for what u want it for, It is afterall, all about shot placement...
No you are not correct. The 300WM has a long lineage as a long range sniper / competition round that speaks for itself.
I think either will do the job for you (what do you consider accurate??) the important thing is learning how to shoot either calibre well without developing bad habbits caused by the recoil.
Still think you're going for overkill for what u want it for, It is afterall, all about shot placement...
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
Yes, the .300 mag has a long history of long range accuracy. That is because it is a .30 cal, and America is reluctant to embrace anything else.
The 6.5x55 has an even longer record of long range accuracy, dating back in excess of 100 years, yet few people in the good ole U.S. of A. shoot it, because it isn't .30 caliber bullet.
There is absolutely nothing inherently superior to make the .300 mag more accurate than the 7mm mag, in fact, the 7mm has vastly superior ballistics properties for any bullet of the same weight and configuration.
That being said, they are both barrel burners, they are both accurate and they both have a lot of recoil, especially in a light rifle. You will have less recoil, higher velocity and higher B.C.'s with the 7mm, but neither one is a tremendous amount of fun to shoot from the bench.
I would be more inclined to use either the short magnums or an improved '06 or improved .280.
Yes, the .300 mag has a long history of long range accuracy. That is because it is a .30 cal, and America is reluctant to embrace anything else.
The 6.5x55 has an even longer record of long range accuracy, dating back in excess of 100 years, yet few people in the good ole U.S. of A. shoot it, because it isn't .30 caliber bullet.
There is absolutely nothing inherently superior to make the .300 mag more accurate than the 7mm mag, in fact, the 7mm has vastly superior ballistics properties for any bullet of the same weight and configuration.
That being said, they are both barrel burners, they are both accurate and they both have a lot of recoil, especially in a light rifle. You will have less recoil, higher velocity and higher B.C.'s with the 7mm, but neither one is a tremendous amount of fun to shoot from the bench.
I would be more inclined to use either the short magnums or an improved '06 or improved .280.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. 30cal has nothing on the 7.
Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. 30cal has nothing on the 7.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
Even thought im a .30 cal shooter myself, in truth, and fact there are "smaller" projectiles out there that have less weight, a better BC, less recoil, and therefore are easier to shoot and generally shoot flatter whilst being less prone to wind drift.
This is not just me saying this, Bryan Litz himself has made mention of this in his book.
Read this its from his book. May help you decide
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/30cal_fullVersion.pdf
Even thought im a .30 cal shooter myself, in truth, and fact there are "smaller" projectiles out there that have less weight, a better BC, less recoil, and therefore are easier to shoot and generally shoot flatter whilst being less prone to wind drift.
This is not just me saying this, Bryan Litz himself has made mention of this in his book.
Read this its from his book. May help you decide
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/30cal_fullVersion.pdf
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is absolutely nothing inherently superior to make the .300 mag more accurate than the 7mm mag, in fact, the <span style="text-decoration: underline">7mm has vastly superior ballistics properties for any bullet of the same weight and configuration.</span></div></div>
Sure does. A .22 also has vastly superior ballistic properties for it's weight also. Does that mean that you should run 90vld's against the 180's? I highly doubt it, though the 90's fly great. The 7mmRM and the 300WM are so similar ballistically that neither will out perform the other in the real world. Except when it comes to energy. The 300WM is the clear winner. It all depends on what you want to hunt with it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is absolutely nothing inherently superior to make the .300 mag more accurate than the 7mm mag, in fact, the <span style="text-decoration: underline">7mm has vastly superior ballistics properties for any bullet of the same weight and configuration.</span></div></div>
Sure does. A .22 also has vastly superior ballistic properties for it's weight also. Does that mean that you should run 90vld's against the 180's? I highly doubt it, though the 90's fly great. The 7mmRM and the 300WM are so similar ballistically that neither will out perform the other in the real world. Except when it comes to energy. The 300WM is the clear winner. It all depends on what you want to hunt with it.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. 30cal has nothing on the 7. </div></div>
My 7wsm won't quite hang with my 300WM, but in the end it depends more on my ability to read the wind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. 30cal has nothing on the 7. </div></div>
My 7wsm won't quite hang with my 300WM, but in the end it depends more on my ability to read the wind.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
cheyenne19 Look at how ineffecient the 7mmRM is compared to the 300WM. [/quote said:
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
kay
I stand corrected on the efficiency. The 300wm takes around 7gr more powder to run similar bullets. I engaged my mouth before I thought.
I am fully aware of the great selection of 7mm bullets. I run them myself. 210vlds with a bc of .631 don't give up enough to .659 to wet yourself over. Most feel that the .612bc of the 6.5mm 140 is pretty great, there are even those that like the .545 of the 115's that do well. My point was that the 7 doesn't flat out beat the 300. You also have the energy debate. Since this is for a hunting gun, one should consider such things.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you are able to accomplish the same task with a lighter bullet that has a higher BC and greater SD, that is by default MORE efficient.</div></div>
That's a bad argument. Is my 22-243AI running 90's more efficient that a 300WSM running 175's? It's lighter and faster with a higher bc and less powder.
kay
I stand corrected on the efficiency. The 300wm takes around 7gr more powder to run similar bullets. I engaged my mouth before I thought.
I am fully aware of the great selection of 7mm bullets. I run them myself. 210vlds with a bc of .631 don't give up enough to .659 to wet yourself over. Most feel that the .612bc of the 6.5mm 140 is pretty great, there are even those that like the .545 of the 115's that do well. My point was that the 7 doesn't flat out beat the 300. You also have the energy debate. Since this is for a hunting gun, one should consider such things.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you are able to accomplish the same task with a lighter bullet that has a higher BC and greater SD, that is by default MORE efficient.</div></div>
That's a bad argument. Is my 22-243AI running 90's more efficient that a 300WSM running 175's? It's lighter and faster with a higher bc and less powder.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheyenne19</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. 30cal has nothing on the 7. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">My 7wsm won't quite hang with my 300WM</span>, but in the end it depends more on my ability to read the wind. </div></div>
Dont blame the round for shooter error!
here is what Mr Litz says in the link above
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Conclusions
The heaviest 7mm and .30 cal bullets have practically the same BC, which means that given equal muzzle velocities, both will be deflected an equal amount in a given crosswind.
However, consider the statement: “assuming equal muzzle velocities…”. Even a moderate 7mm chambering is capable of delivering 2800 to 3000 fps with the heavy 7mm bullets, much faster with magnums. The heaviest .30 cal bullet requires a big magnum just to get to 2800 fps. So the first problem is: you can’t get the heavy .30 cal bullets going as fast as the heavy 7mm bullets! Even if you could get the same muzzle velocities from the heavy .30 cal bullets, it would take much more powder to do it, barrel life would suffer, and you‟ve only achieved parity with the 7mm. The various negative effects of the incredible recoil is really just the „nail in the coffin‟ for the heavy .30 caliber bullets. If the available heavy .30 caliber bullets had lower drag profiles, they would have higher BC‟s, and wouldn‟t require equal muzzle velocities. Remember, when loaded to the same pressure, a bullet with a higher BC will have less wind deflection even though it starts at a lower muzzle velocity. But the truth of the currently available heavy .30 caliber bullets is; they don‟t have higher BC‟s than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
To answer the question posed by the title: What‟s wrong with .30 caliber? I offer the following explanations:
 Lack of legitimate „heavyweight‟ (~230 grain class) .30 caliber bullets.
 The bullets that are in the „heavyweight‟ class for .30 caliber have higher drag profiles than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
 Most .30 caliber long range shooters use 190 – 210 grain bullets, thinking that‟s „heavy enough‟, when that‟s actually a „middleweight‟ bullet for .30 caliber. These „middleweight‟ bullets, even from .30 cal magnums, will tend to suffer more wind deflection (if only slightly) when compared to the „heavyweight‟ 6.5mm and 7mm offerings.
 The energy (powder) required to propel a truly „heavy‟ .30 caliber bullet to reasonable speeds produces recoil that‟s considered prohibitive for most applications, except maybe unlimited class Benchrest where rifles have no weight restriction.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheyenne19</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. 30cal has nothing on the 7. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">My 7wsm won't quite hang with my 300WM</span>, but in the end it depends more on my ability to read the wind. </div></div>
Dont blame the round for shooter error!
here is what Mr Litz says in the link above
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Conclusions
The heaviest 7mm and .30 cal bullets have practically the same BC, which means that given equal muzzle velocities, both will be deflected an equal amount in a given crosswind.
However, consider the statement: “assuming equal muzzle velocities…”. Even a moderate 7mm chambering is capable of delivering 2800 to 3000 fps with the heavy 7mm bullets, much faster with magnums. The heaviest .30 cal bullet requires a big magnum just to get to 2800 fps. So the first problem is: you can’t get the heavy .30 cal bullets going as fast as the heavy 7mm bullets! Even if you could get the same muzzle velocities from the heavy .30 cal bullets, it would take much more powder to do it, barrel life would suffer, and you‟ve only achieved parity with the 7mm. The various negative effects of the incredible recoil is really just the „nail in the coffin‟ for the heavy .30 caliber bullets. If the available heavy .30 caliber bullets had lower drag profiles, they would have higher BC‟s, and wouldn‟t require equal muzzle velocities. Remember, when loaded to the same pressure, a bullet with a higher BC will have less wind deflection even though it starts at a lower muzzle velocity. But the truth of the currently available heavy .30 caliber bullets is; they don‟t have higher BC‟s than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
To answer the question posed by the title: What‟s wrong with .30 caliber? I offer the following explanations:
 Lack of legitimate „heavyweight‟ (~230 grain class) .30 caliber bullets.
 The bullets that are in the „heavyweight‟ class for .30 caliber have higher drag profiles than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
 Most .30 caliber long range shooters use 190 – 210 grain bullets, thinking that‟s „heavy enough‟, when that‟s actually a „middleweight‟ bullet for .30 caliber. These „middleweight‟ bullets, even from .30 cal magnums, will tend to suffer more wind deflection (if only slightly) when compared to the „heavyweight‟ 6.5mm and 7mm offerings.
 The energy (powder) required to propel a truly „heavy‟ .30 caliber bullet to reasonable speeds produces recoil that‟s considered prohibitive for most applications, except maybe unlimited class Benchrest where rifles have no weight restriction.</div></div>
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
You really can't go wrong with a 7mag. It will shoot almost any bullet weight that is availin that caliber. Most rifles in 7mag are twisted at 1in 9 or 9.5. That will stabilize all of the most popular weights. For hunting, the 140, to 168 grain work great. Berger has a 168 gr. VLD hunting bullet that is un-beleivable. And the BC will allow flatter trajectory with less velocity, or kick. And beleive me, it will SMOKE a whitetail. I used to shoot the 140 gr. bullets but got smart and have now gone to the heavier buulets to utilize the higher BC. There are some great rifles out there in 7mag. But your pocket book is really the deciding factor. Good luck, and have fun with your choice, and don't underestimate a 7mag. It will get the job done and impress as well.
You really can't go wrong with a 7mag. It will shoot almost any bullet weight that is availin that caliber. Most rifles in 7mag are twisted at 1in 9 or 9.5. That will stabilize all of the most popular weights. For hunting, the 140, to 168 grain work great. Berger has a 168 gr. VLD hunting bullet that is un-beleivable. And the BC will allow flatter trajectory with less velocity, or kick. And beleive me, it will SMOKE a whitetail. I used to shoot the 140 gr. bullets but got smart and have now gone to the heavier buulets to utilize the higher BC. There are some great rifles out there in 7mag. But your pocket book is really the deciding factor. Good luck, and have fun with your choice, and don't underestimate a 7mag. It will get the job done and impress as well.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
I keep hearing good things about those 7mmRMs- I may have to build one someday just to find out....
I keep hearing good things about those 7mmRMs- I may have to build one someday just to find out....
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
Another vote for the 7mm here. I use the SAUM. Snake charming accuracy.
Another vote for the 7mm here. I use the SAUM. Snake charming accuracy.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheyenne19</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">30cal has nothing on the 7</span></span>. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">My 7wsm won't quite hang with my 300WM</span>, but in the end it depends more on my ability to read the wind. </div></div>
Dont blame the round for shooter error!
here is what Mr Litz says in the link above
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Conclusions
The heaviest 7mm and .30 cal bullets have practically the same BC, which means that given equal muzzle velocities, both will be deflected an equal amount in a given crosswind.
However, consider the statement: “assuming equal muzzle velocities…”. Even a moderate 7mm chambering is capable of delivering 2800 to 3000 fps with the heavy 7mm bullets, much faster with magnums. The heaviest .30 cal bullet requires a big magnum just to get to 2800 fps. So the first problem is: you can’t get the heavy .30 cal bullets going as fast as the heavy 7mm bullets! Even if you could get the same muzzle velocities from the heavy .30 cal bullets, it would take much more powder to do it, barrel life would suffer, and you‟ve only achieved parity with the 7mm. The various negative effects of the incredible recoil is really just the „nail in the coffin‟ for the heavy .30 caliber bullets. If the available heavy .30 caliber bullets had lower drag profiles, they would have higher BC‟s, and wouldn‟t require equal muzzle velocities. Remember, when loaded to the same pressure, a bullet with a higher BC will have less wind deflection even though it starts at a lower muzzle velocity. But the truth of the currently available heavy .30 caliber bullets is; they don‟t have higher BC‟s than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
To answer the question posed by the title: What‟s wrong with .30 caliber? I offer the following explanations:
 Lack of legitimate „heavyweight‟ (~230 grain class) .30 caliber bullets.
 The bullets that are in the „heavyweight‟ class for .30 caliber have higher drag profiles than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
 Most .30 caliber long range shooters use 190 – 210 grain bullets, thinking that‟s „heavy enough‟, when that‟s actually a „middleweight‟ bullet for .30 caliber. These „middleweight‟ bullets, even from .30 cal magnums, will tend to suffer more wind deflection (if only slightly) when compared to the „heavyweight‟ 6.5mm and 7mm offerings.
 The energy (powder) required to propel a truly „heavy‟ .30 caliber bullet to reasonable speeds produces recoil that‟s considered prohibitive for most applications, except maybe unlimited class Benchrest where rifles have no weight restriction.</div></div></div></div>
Your first statement was pretty off base. My whole point in this thread was to say that they are very similar.
If I was blaming the shooter I'd have bad things to say about both of them wouldn't I? I never said that a .30 was flat out better than a 7mm. I just said that neither one will out perform the other. My 7wsm shot quite nicely at 1000yds this morning, but running 162's at 3050 doesn't make it superior to my 300 running 210's at 3030. They come so close that in the end it's up to me. Just to be clear, I'm not blaming any round. Ok? I'm merely stating that despite all the little numbers you can crunch on a computer don't amount to a lot of difference. Now if we were talking about .277 bullets then yes there is a discernable difference there, but we're not.
So to sum up Mr. Litz there isn't a good selection of heavyweight 30's, and velocity is lacking. But he did say that the BC's were almost equal. And to sum up my point my velocity doesn't suffer on my 300, but it does on my 7wsm. So in the end they are similar. And yes the 300 does have something on the 7.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cheyenne19</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go 7WSM or 7SAUM and dont look back. <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">30cal has nothing on the 7</span></span>. </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">My 7wsm won't quite hang with my 300WM</span>, but in the end it depends more on my ability to read the wind. </div></div>
Dont blame the round for shooter error!
here is what Mr Litz says in the link above
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Conclusions
The heaviest 7mm and .30 cal bullets have practically the same BC, which means that given equal muzzle velocities, both will be deflected an equal amount in a given crosswind.
However, consider the statement: “assuming equal muzzle velocities…”. Even a moderate 7mm chambering is capable of delivering 2800 to 3000 fps with the heavy 7mm bullets, much faster with magnums. The heaviest .30 cal bullet requires a big magnum just to get to 2800 fps. So the first problem is: you can’t get the heavy .30 cal bullets going as fast as the heavy 7mm bullets! Even if you could get the same muzzle velocities from the heavy .30 cal bullets, it would take much more powder to do it, barrel life would suffer, and you‟ve only achieved parity with the 7mm. The various negative effects of the incredible recoil is really just the „nail in the coffin‟ for the heavy .30 caliber bullets. If the available heavy .30 caliber bullets had lower drag profiles, they would have higher BC‟s, and wouldn‟t require equal muzzle velocities. Remember, when loaded to the same pressure, a bullet with a higher BC will have less wind deflection even though it starts at a lower muzzle velocity. But the truth of the currently available heavy .30 caliber bullets is; they don‟t have higher BC‟s than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
To answer the question posed by the title: What‟s wrong with .30 caliber? I offer the following explanations:
 Lack of legitimate „heavyweight‟ (~230 grain class) .30 caliber bullets.
 The bullets that are in the „heavyweight‟ class for .30 caliber have higher drag profiles than the heavy bullets in smaller calibers.
 Most .30 caliber long range shooters use 190 – 210 grain bullets, thinking that‟s „heavy enough‟, when that‟s actually a „middleweight‟ bullet for .30 caliber. These „middleweight‟ bullets, even from .30 cal magnums, will tend to suffer more wind deflection (if only slightly) when compared to the „heavyweight‟ 6.5mm and 7mm offerings.
 The energy (powder) required to propel a truly „heavy‟ .30 caliber bullet to reasonable speeds produces recoil that‟s considered prohibitive for most applications, except maybe unlimited class Benchrest where rifles have no weight restriction.</div></div></div></div>
Your first statement was pretty off base. My whole point in this thread was to say that they are very similar.
If I was blaming the shooter I'd have bad things to say about both of them wouldn't I? I never said that a .30 was flat out better than a 7mm. I just said that neither one will out perform the other. My 7wsm shot quite nicely at 1000yds this morning, but running 162's at 3050 doesn't make it superior to my 300 running 210's at 3030. They come so close that in the end it's up to me. Just to be clear, I'm not blaming any round. Ok? I'm merely stating that despite all the little numbers you can crunch on a computer don't amount to a lot of difference. Now if we were talking about .277 bullets then yes there is a discernable difference there, but we're not.
So to sum up Mr. Litz there isn't a good selection of heavyweight 30's, and velocity is lacking. But he did say that the BC's were almost equal. And to sum up my point my velocity doesn't suffer on my 300, but it does on my 7wsm. So in the end they are similar. And yes the 300 does have something on the 7.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep hearing good things about those 7mmRMs- I may have to build one someday just to find out....
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Isaac,
I'm not sure if I ever thanked you for the help with the 7WSM reamer, but I appreciate it. It's a lot better than the factory 300saum that it used to be.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep hearing good things about those 7mmRMs- I may have to build one someday just to find out....
Isaac,
I'm not sure if I ever thanked you for the help with the 7WSM reamer, but I appreciate it. It's a lot better than the factory 300saum that it used to be.
Re: Rifle in 7mm or .300. Any suggestions?
From what I have read here, I am leaning a little more towards the .300WM. It sounds like it is a bit more popular of a caliber and availability of componants might be better. A buddy of mine that I shoot with has a .300WM as well and I could reload for both of us.
From what I have read here, I am leaning a little more towards the .300WM. It sounds like it is a bit more popular of a caliber and availability of componants might be better. A buddy of mine that I shoot with has a .300WM as well and I could reload for both of us.
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