Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

[StoopidSlow]

I can't stand asking the idiots (mostly) on ar15.c0m a question....you dont get an answer your start a war. I'm looking into taking a security contracting gig and i need a few things before I can even tell them in interested. Namely a rifle other than my ptr. Ive spent pleany of time around the ar platform in the corps and i've done a good bit of research, so im not some kid talking out my ass.

The clear choice thus far, for a 'one and done' AR platform weapon, looks like a POF (.223). Yea i guess price is a factor when buying a weapon, and i'm not made of money, but the fact of the matter is in this situation, its really not an option. So I'm willing to do what it takes. LMT puts together a nice system also, and a few others, but Living in az and having the manufacture of your weapon right up the road is a big plus. I'm sure some people have some other thoughts, so input is nice, and of course if you've heard anything bad ( i haven't been able to find anything substantial)


I'm lost on barrel length. I really just haven't spent any time with a sub 20" rifle so i don't know what to expect out of anything less. I need to be able to engage a threat 5-300m. Getting in and out of hmmwv's and mraps with my M16A4 overseas was always a bit tricky, lucky for me i didn't have to exit in a combat situation, because it would of been difficult to quickly engage a target. Having said that, knowing you can put down a target at 500m is nice. So I'm looking for a recommendation for a compact but function barrel length. But the bottom line is that wont fly, i need a weapon that can be easily manipulated.

 

[Numb_Skull]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

The company will issue you a rifle, just like in the Corps leatherneck.

 

[operatorj]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

I have always had great luck with LMT. I dont know much about POF but can tell you I have owned alot of AR's and the fit and finish of the LMT is the best i've owned. As far as barrel length I wouldn't go over 16"s. You can still get out to 300m with a good barrel ammo combo, and if you do alot of in and out of vehicles the shorter the better.

 

[StoopidSlow]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marcus85</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The company will issue you a rifle, just like in the Corps leatherneck. </div></div>

This is a small operation. I need my own rifle and my own plates.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted By: Marcus85
The company will issue you a rifle, just like in the Corps leatherneck.


This is a small operation. I need my own rifle and my own plates.</div></div>

UT OH

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

What type of work are you doing? Security Contractor is kind of vague. will you being doing escort security, site security, personal protection, advising, etc. And what region of the world? On a boat, on ground, in a tower, in a vehicle, office

I was friends with some guys from Poland who worked for a crap company(security escort) and yes they didn't supply weapons or armor. What they were told to do was buy them from the outgoing guys or get them from the economy (black market). This was in Iraq back in 04.

 

[StoopidSlow]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Site security in this instance. The company does all of the above. Mounted and foot patrol.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

I assume it's a stateside gig then. ITAR's a bitch....

If so get something simple, compact and lightweight. Remember that you're going to be carrying it all day. Baseline Bushmaster M-4gery will do the job nicely. 14.5" barrel with a muzzle device to make it legal.

Have a light and simple optic like a Comp M2/3 or T-1 Aimpoint. Quick backup sight with a fixed FSP and you're done. Get a good two point sling that is versatile.

 

[carbinero]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Noveske or BCM 16" middy. Both are excellent and worth every penny. 2nd choice would be LMT or Colt since I prefer mid. Don't try to save a few bucks on anything less. Aimpoint or Trij 1-4x, Blue Force Vickers padded sling, p-mags. I have Troy flip and Laure fixed rear sights, but my next will be a KAC micro 200-600.

 

[Shooter45]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

I would suggest a name brand such as Colt, LMT, Bravo, POF, or LWRC based on your price range. Get a 14.5" barrel with a fixed flash supressor so it's legal for the US as well.
For optics, it is all a matter of personal preference. I use an EOTech for overseas. Choose between an Aimpoint, EOTech, or ACOG, but make sure you have them in QD mounts and back up iron sights in case the optic goes down. It's almost guaranteed that when you need to take a shot, your optic will be down. If you do choose an ACOG, I prefer the 4x over all the others because of the magnification.
Since you'll be doing fixed site security/static positions, get a comfortable sling. I use the Magpul and am very happy with it. It easily adjusts from a one-point to two-point in a split second, and is easy to transfer to your support side if necessary.
Good luck and give more specific info if your questions are not getting answered.

 

[shooter6.5]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

what shooter45 said

plus--make sure and check. most contracts fall under DoD or DoS regs and ITAR is definitely in effect. Some of the private ones are different but bringing in your own gear is still risky. If it is Iraq or the Stan or Jordan then they are very tight at the airport and it can jam you up big time.

I have been on four different contracts and none allowed you to bring in your own weapon. Generally speaking the gear issued was fine, not what I would choose but still accurate and reliable.

Best to you

 

[whiskeytangofox]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

I would get a Noveske 14.5 like some others suggested. I had a POF 16" and it was very barrel heavy. I sold it to buy my Noveske. My Noveske balances out very nicely compared to the POF. Whatever you decide to get you should look into getting a rifle with a mid-length gas system instead of a carbine-length. Rifles with a mid-length gas system shoot so much smoother than carbine-length.

There is a reason the high end AR manufacturers have made the move to a mid-length gas system.

 

[BOL556]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Scar 16S with Eotech 553 with arms base. The Scar's buttstock folds in so you dont have to lose length on the barrel. Also comes with the 1 and 7 twist. No need to buy back up sights either cause they come with the weapon. But like others have already said check with the company to see if they issue them. I know a lot of people that did private security; they had no problems bringing the weapon out of the country but caught hell coming back state side. Was looking into triple canopy my self until the wifey said she was preggers. Another thing to think about, if you go with a DI platform spend the extra money on a fail zero bolt group. You will be very happy with it.

 

[jbailey]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Like some other guys have said, take a look at Noveske.

The big advantage of a Noveske over some of the competition is the barrel. Noveske chrome-lined barrels are super durable and super accurate. The rest of the gun will break before that barrel does. Beyond the barrel, they are build very solid, but the heart and soul of Noveske is the barrel. Take a look here:

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=111

In terms of barrel length, you need to determine what range and load you will be shooting. Get a 7 or 8 twist, so you can shoot the 77gr bullets w/o stability issues. Ask the folks at the company what load they will be issuing you. If they are issuing either 55 or 62 grains bullets, a 14.5" will get you enough MV. But if its heavier bullet, a 16" will give you another 30-40fps, which will extend your effective range maybe 20yds, which is valuable with a 77gr bullet. With that said, a 14.5" is very effective out to 400+yds (I have had my Noveske 14.5" out to 500yds and 77gr SMK hits were limited by the red dot Eotech not the rifle barrel).

I have had an LMT and its rock solid, but wasn't as accurate as my Noveske carbine has been.

Best of luck!

 

[1stIDvet]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Colt 6920 would be my suggestion. Good company, you know the weapon already and you can pick an optic later thats more "job/mission" specific.

 

[KChen986]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

How about Daniel Defense? Economical quality. They use some pretty high grade parts, IIRC they use a Cold-Hammer-Forged Chrome Lined barrel. For the price of a Colt, you can purchase a DD with a quad rail.

*ETA* If you don't mind the extra 1.5", I'd go with a 16" barrel. Yes, the 14.5" is more compact, and matches the BDCs of issue optics, but the 16" permits you to change out muzzle devices as necessary.

 

[StoopidSlow]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

thanks for all the great info guys. i have some friends that work for the company, there stateside AZ based operation (where the also conduct most of their work). Their contracts include security for utility company's when they do work on or near the border. They also have helped out border patrol if i'm not mistaken. A pretty multifaceted company, have they're fingers in every piece of the private security pie.

 

[StoopidSlow]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Also why the push for the 16" for legality reasons? It takes a little time and money but i don't expect and difficulty obtaining a class 3 permit, which i intend to soon for a suppressor for my sig anyway. Am i missing something?

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StoopidSlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also why the push for the 16" for legality reasons? It takes a little time and money but i don't expect and difficulty obtaining a class 3 permit, which i intend to soon for a suppressor for my sig anyway. Am i missing something?</div></div>
Not necessary unless you need concealment. The barrel length shouldn't be an issue getting in and out of a vehicle with a carbine. If it still is, then you're doing it wrong. Basic, lightweight and versatile is what I recommend.

Here's what I would get if I was working that type of job:
Basic M4gery flattop carbine. Colt, Bushmaster, BCM, S&W, etc.
SWFA 1-4x optic (They're on sale in the group buy forum)
Rail mounted LED light
Vickers sling

Basically the same thing I've carried for the last 4.5 years here, minus the optic. Good enough for southern Afghanistan, good enough for southern US.

 

[Here2Learn]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

I'm with redmanss on the 1-4 especially if you want to accurately engage a target at 300-500m. Definitely a 1/7 or 1/8 twist. I'm partial to 17.5 but 16 would probably just as good and as stated above, go with a mid length gas system... Your second shot will be much faster

 

[rockmyglock]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Personally, I have a LMT CQB MRP Piston 16 and love the gun. I haven't had a malf once with her (>5,000 rounds).

I run an Aimpoint Comp M4 on top with a a GGG tall flex-mount behind it. This allows me to engage targets a little further out using a 3x magnifier..... while being able to run my PVS-14 for night ops.

Are you ONLY going to be working stateside? If so, are you restricted to using a .223? Have you considered 6.8 or .208?

I know that if you go with the LMT MRP system, you could change out your barrel and bolt for a 6.8 gun in under a minute. Granted, I reckon you could always add a second upper to your kit and keep optics mounted (therefore zeroed) for different roles.

 

[StoopidSlow]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Any caliber I want. I know proficiency comes with practice, so 5.56 was an obvious choice as far as availability of ammo, and honestly, a year of reading this site, and I still hardly know the basaltic advantages of the 6.8 or any other comparable cartrige for that matter. I want to do some more research on the LMT. So far i haven't been able to dig up any dirt on the Noveske (really sounds like a great rifle), and should it be the same with the LMT, it might literally come down to the flip of a coin, or a matter if i can find some to fire. Seems the DI guys have a good argument, and so do the gas piston. Truth be told, DI has been around a long time, and with the tens of thousands of rounds I figure put through an m16, i can hardly remember a malfunction that wasn't a fault of my own, my ammo, or my mag. Though your round count alone sounds promising rock.

 

[operatorj]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Anyone can correct me if im wrong but I think that LMT and Colt are the only TRUE MIL-SPEC rifle makers out there. DI is the way to go in my opinion based on the availibility of parts and price on spare and replacement parts. I know Noveske back awsome barrels but hae never ran one of there guns but i'm sure they a great.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator j</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone can correct me if im wrong </div></div>

FN produces more than Colt and LMT combined, but most of theirs are three hole fire control groups, no?


MilSpec is just a broad requirement base, not a magical "my AR is better than yours". Most forged M4 upper and lowers come from the same foundries, and the machining is either in spec or not.

For a patrol rifle, go with whichever is reliable and accurate, and talk to risk management about makers.

 

[operatorj]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Forgot about FN. My bad

 

[KTDLS7]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted By: Marcus85
The company will issue you a rifle, just like in the Corps leatherneck.


This is a small operation. I need my own rifle and my own plates.</div></div>

UT OH </div></div>

kraigWY, you're onto something. This may all be legit, but my b-dar blipped on the OP, and been watching since. Something does not sound right . . . StoopidSlow looks vaguely familiar in style, terms, and content.

But WTH, I may be wrong.

Kevin

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Open ground or close in?

What part of AZ you in? (that's a friendly "fill out your profile")

There's lots of local options for youas well. POF P416 with a 11.5" upper would kick ass. PhxPD's SAU likes theirs.
http://www.pof-usa.com/p416/p416119sx.htm

 

[StoopidSlow]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

Ha ha I' not sketchy mic sketch and I'm not some retard from ar15.com. Long range shooting is awesome, and in my quest for more info I found this site a year ago. I'm a marine corps reservist (yea yea) and have lived in Phoenix (i will work on filling out my profile) almost 10 years. My platoon sgt and a friend of his (also a sgt in my until) work for Bulletproof Securities here in AZ. They do everything from site security to vip escort. They have worked with actors, famous athletes, assisted the secret service with vice presidential security, and a host of other things. I was recommended to send them a resume, because not everyone is aching to drive down to the border that lives here in phoenix when they get security contracts with SRP (energy company) and other commercial contractors. I however just took a job with Pima County (ie Tucson) sheriffs department, in the corrections field, and am moving to Tucson. Thus the recommendation because im half way there. He also told me before i tell them in interested in working as a contractor for them, i need some basics, rifle, carrier, sapi plates ect. These are all things i have wanted for myself anyway, but the cost is significantly more justifiable now. There is tons of info on AR's out there, but this is the most level headed group of folks i've been able to find.

I hope thats enough info to cure the skeptics. Didnt want to write you guys a book right off the bat.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

PM sent on plate possibility for ya.

 

[StoopidSlow]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PM sent on plate possibility for ya. </div></div> Thanks, i will follow up with him

 

[Ninja]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

My POF billet 416 won't take Pmags (maybe it's an early design that had a mil-spec problem?). Guess you are open to other non AZ mfgs' & plan on suppressed... I went with a bullpup MSAR A4 with Surefire 6" QD can.

 

[lsm62]

Re: Rifle options, to carry for a job....yes an AR

as far as weight goes i have a dpms in 223 and its pretty heavy, a friend of mine has a pof that feels light as a feather in comparison. it is a gas piston system and shoots really well