Rifle Tuning and Technology?

[Maurygold]

Vertical dispersion and nodes mysteriously disappear when bullets are shot over doppler that tracks the bullet during its entire flight and takes things into account that you can't measure with a chrono and target.

Almost everything you see with targets showing supposed nodes goes away when you shoot longer shot strings that show what the dispersion for your barrel/ammo actually is.

Okay, where does this come from? What published literature?

 

[Slides]

@Maurygold nowhere did I say scope ring weighting was an ideal tuning method, I said offset mass causes the impulse response that results in tunable vertical stringing relating to barrel exit time (beforeyou introduce muzzle weights). If you are modelling the system it needs to be there and if class requirements are no muzzle tuners/devices it could very well be one of the ways someone can tune a rifle.

You told me I was wrong that that effect was a result of offset mass and have continued referring to this incredibly vague "harmonics". It not harmonics, it's an impulse response, there is no continuous fixed frequency forcing function.

You have also failed to explain where the eccentric force/energy input is developed if not from recoil vs offset mass and why it occurs primarily in the plane of offset mass.

You also just stated shooter input/buttpad force doesn't effect point of impact which is wrong too.

Explain it like there is a university physics department sitting in front of you who will start cutting fingers and toes it you make snake oil references the "harmonics". Explain the mechanism of introducing the energy lateral to the bore if not for the moment around the offset mass.

You are clearly out if your depth.

 

[Maurygold]

@Maurygold nowhere did I say scope ring weighting was an ideal tuning method, I said offset mass causes the impulse response that results in tunable vertical stringing relating to barrel exit time (beforeyou introduce muzzle weights). If you are modelling the system it needs to be there and if class requirements are no muzzle tuners/devices it could very well be one of the ways someone can tune a rifle.

You told me I was wrong that that effect was a result of offset mass and have continued referring to this incredibly vague "harmonics". It not harmonics, it's an impulse response, there is no continuous fixed frequency forcing function.

You have also failed to explain where the eccentric force/energy input is developed if not from recoil vs offset mass and why it occurs primarily in the plane of offset mass.

You also just stated shooter input/buttpad force doesn't effect point of impact which is wrong too.

Explain it like there is a university physics department sitting in front of you who will start cutting fingers and toes it you make snake oil references the "harmonics". Explain the mechanism of introducing the energy lateral to the bore if not for the moment around the offset mass.

You are clearly out if your depth.

“You could play with that effect adding thicker steel top rings or similar”

You’re not reading what I’m saying and entirely misquoting me while talking down to me. Good luck with your scope tuning - you must be shooting incredible groups.

 

[iceng]

Vertical dispersion and nodes mysteriously disappear when bullets are shot over doppler that tracks the bullet during its entire flight and takes things into account that you can't measure with a chrono and target.

Almost everything you see with targets showing supposed nodes goes away when you shoot longer shot strings that show what the dispersion for your barrel/ammo actually is.

what you see on targets is not what you see in flight. Ill echo this amazing effect of "i shot this on paper, look what i discovered" vs "i shot on paper yesterday, and nothing is lining up. My barrel must be dirty and need a clean / this lot of powder was old / im using different primers / my neck tension is off some how" etc..

 

[Slides]

“You could play with that effect adding thicker steel top rings or similar”

You’re not reading what I’m saying and entirely misquoting me while talking down to me. Good luck with your scope tuning - you must be shooting incredible groups.

You completely misrepresented me saying someone could do something as advocating it as the best method.

You are also ignoring every attempt anyone is making to get you to explain the vertical impulses response in the barrel/action if it isn't a result of the inertia response of the centre of gravity of the rifle system from the bore, apparently, according to you lateral motion is induced consistently in a barrel as a result of symmetrical application of pressure in the chamber and bore?

 

[DJL2]

There's an entire chapter (or several) devoted to this in Rifle Accuracy Facts by: Dr. Harold Vaughn. If you haven't read it, you should start there. He went to great lengths to analyze and then eliminate vibration (or minimize it).

You can get to the digital version of the book from the link that hits his bio on the Precision Rifle Blog.

 

[Macht]

There's an entire chapter (or several) devoted to this in Rifle Accuracy Facts by: Dr. Harold Vaughn. If you haven't read it, you should start there. He went to great lengths to analyze and then eliminate vibration (or minimize it).

You can get to the digital version of the book from the link that hits his bio on the Precision Rifle Blog.

This one is especially relevant, since two of the largest contributors to barrel motion Vaughn found were the presence of asymmetry in receiver stiffness and the off-axis loading through the recoil lug.

 

[DJL2]

Indeed. The scope and rings effectively become a structural member of an action that is itself flexing due to torque/asymmetry. Much of the “normal” vibration/torque/moment coming from the recoil lug striking the bedding/stock/chassis.

 

[iceng]

This guy gets it.

It vibrates, and changes its note / tone, but wont effect terminal ballistics.

Summary: tuning via sound vibration / whatever it is we are talking about, is inherently stupid.