I am new to the rimfire game. I normally shoot F Class, and am used to loading my ammo with long range precision in mind. Given my lack of income at the moment, high end rimfire ammo is out of the budget. I have been getting good 1/2 MOA groups out of Federal American Eagle at 50 yards in my CZ 455, albeit inconsistently. Is there any way I could make this ammo more consistent without altering the ammo from its factory condition? Does weight sorting work? I have seen sorting by rim thickness alluded to a number of times, what effect does that have? Anything else I can do to shrink my group size? Thanks for any advice. I can post pictures of some groups I shot yesterday if that would help.
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Rimfire Ammo Questions
- Thread starter mountainman308
- Start date
0.50 MOA at 50 yards is approximately 1/4" center to center. With bulk ammo. If that really is occurring, you should be thanking your lucky stars and just shooting without any additional hassle.
Sorry, let me clarify, that is happening once in every 15 groups of 5 shots or so. The average is higher than that, at about 1 MOA.
I broke out my data book and micrometer, and got the official numbers. my rifle averages 0.8135 in. groups at 50 yards off the bench over the course of its lifetime on American Eagle, 40 gn lead bullets, lot # AE5022. My last range trip was the best yet, with an average group size of 0.6165 in. across eight 5 shot groups. I have shot a 1/2 MOA group twice over the course of the time I have been using this ammo, which is 1/14 groups. Again, I am happy to upload pictures of my data book if that would help.
My question remains: what, if anything, can I do to the rounds to make this ammo shoot smaller groups more consistently?
My question remains: what, if anything, can I do to the rounds to make this ammo shoot smaller groups more consistently?
Step up to a higher quality ammo. Wolf, SK, Norma's TAC-22 are all good and available for ~6/box w/ shipping and such figured in
If you are sitting on a mountain of the Fed ammo, from what I've read on RFC weight sorting and rim thickness sorting really don't help much. I have read that adding a lube of some sort (Preparation H actually tested best) helps, as does sizing thru a D-Rock tool or similar.
If you are sitting on a mountain of the Fed ammo, from what I've read on RFC weight sorting and rim thickness sorting really don't help much. I have read that adding a lube of some sort (Preparation H actually tested best) helps, as does sizing thru a D-Rock tool or similar.
Try different ammo.
I have read different guns like different ammo and possibly even the same model of gun likes different ammo compared to someone else's
I have read different guns like different ammo and possibly even the same model of gun likes different ammo compared to someone else's
Like others have said, better ammo. However if you want you can run a test and weight sort and sort by rim thickness to find what had the best results in improving your accuracy. It may be a combination of both to net the best results.
Thanks for the replies. I have tested a number of brands available at the local gun shop, and the data shows that my rifle hates CCI minimags, Remington Thunderbolt, and Remington Hyper velocity. It was ok with Auto-match and liked the American Eagle best. I only have about 300 rounds of AE left. SK standard is within my ammo budget, barely, but it is out of stock most places. I'll give that a shot and try sorting by weight and rim thickness. Is there any other voodoo that you do so well to help your rimfires shoot better?
Edit: never mind, current prices for SK standard from Gunbot are very much outside my ammo budget.
Edit: never mind, current prices for SK standard from Gunbot are very much outside my ammo budget.
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Unfortunately there is no magic trick for getting them to shoot. I would sort by the rim thickness first and them maybe sort those by weight.
oh really? Is that for all distances or just short range? Also the same on all barrel length and twist rates?
we see about every make an model at our Tactical steel challeng
we shoot 56yd 110yd,156yd,211yd
to ansewer your question an not sound like a smart butt,
YES
hi vel, an hyper vel, may do ok at 25yd even 50yd, but smaller group size.match vel, standard vel,
work better past 100yd. it has been proving many time here on the Hide
lot of old post just on that subject.
now you will have those that say BS, but the score an the group size dont lie.
not trying to be a hard ass, hope it does not sound that way
an yes match ammo cost a lot,
but some lesser match wolf, SK,fed will do for cost value
find some 3/4 boxes of each, clean rifle shoot 10/20 shots before trying for group
may an hope you will be happy
YO
+1 on this.... My testing over the years has shown that subsonics generally shoot tighter across a variety of rifles than supersonic ammo. It made sense to me after reading about the effects of trans-sonic shock waves on the projectile. Wish I would have bought pallets of the good stuff (Eley, RWS and Lapua were tops in my rifles) when it was merely expensive at 5 bucks a box.
You might give CCI standard velocity a try, I've had pretty decent results with it for plinking uses. For match use I've been having real good luck with Eley Edge, but it's spendy.
CCI Std can be found for around $5/box
CCI Std can be found for around $5/box
Great information, thank you. I will for sure be looking for some good quality subsonic ammo then.
Do you know about how many fps ammo can vary past or below the rating listed on the box?
Can I shoot 20 rounds of whatever ammo after cleaning and then go for accuracy with good ammo or does my break in ammo need to be the same as what I will be shooting for accuracy?
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Like you I scrimp and save for ammo. My Savage BTV likes everything sub sonic I've tried, more $ means more quality means more consistency means more accurate.
When I have money and I can find it, I buy CCI SV, SK Magazine, Norma TAC-22. Remember that SK is the same as Wolf. Almost all order for me - check grafs, sgammo, and bullets.com. Locally when I can find it I get Winchester 40grn TCHP subs which are no longer made, the replacement 42gr subs from Winchester, Remington SSHPs, CCI Subs, etc. The Remington/Ely stuff doesn't do much for me at its price point, and I've never had good results with anything Federal.
When I have money and I can find it, I buy CCI SV, SK Magazine, Norma TAC-22. Remember that SK is the same as Wolf. Almost all order for me - check grafs, sgammo, and bullets.com. Locally when I can find it I get Winchester 40grn TCHP subs which are no longer made, the replacement 42gr subs from Winchester, Remington SSHPs, CCI Subs, etc. The Remington/Ely stuff doesn't do much for me at its price point, and I've never had good results with anything Federal.
as far as weight sorting and rim thickness, I have checked over thousands of rounds of ammo from remington thunderbolt, winchester dynapoint, federal automatch up to federal 900 umb and Eley Tenex.....what I personally found was more representative of quality control.....the high dollar ammo had very little variation in rim thickness or weight, but the lower the price, the more opportunity for great variance. Sometimes the low price ammo was very consistent, sometimes it varied greatly. However, if I took the time to sort it out, there was a marginal increase in accuracy for the lower priced ammo. If I put a price on the time it took me to sort, it would be much cheaper to buy the more expensive ammo. So, the conclusion I came to is that it might help the lower priced ammo, but there was little or no effect on the Eley, SSK, etc. because of the consistency of the ammo manufacturer's quality control. If you can't afford the high dollar ammo, and you have the time, I think you have an opportunity to increase the consistency of the ammo that goes down your barrel. But you may end up with 10-15 rounds out of the box that you can use for the best accuracy - instead most of or even the entire box of the Eley or other more expensive ammo for use in a match. I think of it this way - the lower the cost of the ammo, the more important that it shoots minute of squirrel or better. For the high priced stuff, the lower the minute of angle I am looking for! My 2 cents worth....and worth every penny you paid.
Most all maspecif question
most match ammo is lead, with some type of lube,(wax, ell snot)
as long as you stay brand sspecific, (ie wolf, SK, lapua. your ell snot lubes) (are wax base)
you should not have to give a good cleaning, just fire a few before checking for groups.
but going from wax to ell snot, are ell snot to wax.you need to clean.
find what your rifle likes as far as fps.but stay under 1080fps.
22lr is a lot harder to find the mojo ammo then any center fire rifle i have loaded
Great information, thank you. Ibarrel,or sure be looking for some good quality subsonic ammo then.
Do you know about how many fps ammo can vary past or below the rating listed on the box?
Can I shoot 20 rounds of whatever ammo after cleaning and then go for accuracy with good ammo or does my break in ammo need to be the same as what I will be shooting for accuracy?
If you have cleaned should only take 10/20 shots to foul the barrel then shoot for group stay with the same box you break in to shoot groups
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Thank you Quietman, that was exactly what I was looking for. Seeing as I am currently unemployed, and can only spend 2 hours a day on USAjobs without wanting to throw my computer into the river, I can afford to sort my budget ammo for now. Maybe when I get a paycheck, I'll start buying better ammo. Maybe it will be available by then. Out of curiosity, do you shoot rimfire matches in Richmond?
You have already gotten good direction from some very good RF shooters. Perfect practice makes perfect. Imperfect practice makes permanent. Dry firing will provide better practice than shooting bulk ammo but shooting is way more fun than dry fire. When using bulk, put in the same level of effort that you would with match ammo. There is no way to evaluate your performance or your rifle's performance with anything other than match ammo. Center-X seems to be the best balance of reliable performance and price. Use it to verify performance. Shoot slow. It is much easier for me to shoot good groups with a quality magazine fed RF than with a super quality single shot RF. If the reason is not obvious, the answer is that I stay on the gun through the string with the magazine fed rifle and I have to get back into the SS with each round. A great drill using the Center-X is to load one round in the magazine at a time. Absolute consistency will show and anything else will cause changes in POI. The drill easily takes more than four times as long as cycling a five shot magazine so and hour with Center-X costs the same as an hour with Thunderbolt.
Haven't shot matches in a while. Started with 3 position smallbore and Anschutz 1413 (many years ago) and Eley tenex. Practiced a lot with the old Army Winchester White box, though. After that, migrated to 50 and 100 yard matches here and there....and, as Jeff Cooper says, only accurate rifles are interesting. So, sorted and weighed ammo for myself to see if difference.....answer is as above. "Cheap" ammo I shoot is CCI SV or PMC moderator (old stuff). Moderator is nice and accurate, along with being pretty clean for when I am being quiet. Wish they still made the Moderator like the old stuff. After that, I move to Eley. It's nice and consistent, but pricey. I only shoot subsonic ammo, regardless of manufacturer. I started shooting .22 when I was 8, and probably more than 50,000 rounds down range by now. (Most of that was when I was a teenager to the mid-20's in the 70's and could get a brick of ammo for less than $10, so I'd shoot 1000 rounds or better a week - had a range just down from the house.) Now, just shoot for fun at the range or go to a buddy's farm where we can reach out to 600 yards and play with the larger calibers.
Buy this book
http://www.amazon.com/Riflemans-Guide-To-Rimfire-Ammunition/dp/B000NJKFM6
Everyone says that all the time... but this time someone is right.
Buy this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Riflemans-Guide-To-Rimfire-Ammunition/dp/B000NJKFM6
Everyone says that all the time... but this time someone is right.
Buy this book.
