Rock Island Arsenal Win 70

[Skunk]

All,

I can't remember if I posted pics of this gun here before, or not. But, in the interest of great rifles, here it is.

Anyone ever see such a modification to a front sight hood before?

Pics coming....

 

[Skunk]

 

[deltawiskey]

View attachment 7657507

Wow... just wow.
DW

 

[Skunk]

It's beautiful, and doesn't show much use. I wish I knew more about it, but haven't found much info related to military marked guns like this.

 

[deltawiskey]

Perhaps @cplnorton could help shed some light on it?
If these rifles could only talk...
DW

 

[RTH1800]

I have a front sight like that on a very early Bull barrel 250 / 3000 mod 70 snipers match rifle. It’s aftermarket.

 

[deltawiskey]

I have a front sight like that on a very early Bull barrel 250 / 3000 mod 70 snipers match rifle. It’s aftermarket.

Have you posted a picture of it previously by chance? It seems like I have seen a sight cover like that before, maybe it is yours that I'm remembering...
DW

 

[pmclaine]

The stamp goes against conventions....at a gun show discerning buyers would say "fake".

Just goes to show nothing known is ever final.

That is fantastic.

Interesting with the hood. Why add a sunroof to increase glare? Thought the purpose was to prevent sun glinting off sights. Guess if you are going to "illuminate" a FSP there would be benefit to straight down vs off one of the sides creating shadow that could cause you to aim left or right.

@pre64win any history on these?

Justin do you enjoy this genre you have been dragged in to?

Im may be mistaken but 4 years ago it seemed your focus was on very fine sporting rifles, the type any civilian owner is proud to display in the glass front oak gun cabinet and culls a variety of game animals with.

These military rifles though, sometimes beaten, abused, treated as mere tools, have other stories.

 

[Charger442]

I have a front sight like that on a very early Bull barrel 250 / 3000 mod 70 snipers match rifle. It’s aftermarket.

This is my Holy Grail. I have quested for it and as of yet, have failed to even catch a glimpse of such a rare and storied firearm in person. I shall continue my quest until my days end, but will be warmed and encouraged by any small gesture of pictures you can provide of thine most perfect Model 70 in the divine caliber bestowed unto Charles Newton, by our God Almighty.

 

[RTH1800]

I’ll need to dig it out sometime. Might be a while.

 

[sandwarrior]

The stamp goes against conventions....at a gun show discerning buyers would say "fake".

Just goes to show nothing known is ever final.

That is fantastic.

Interesting with the hood. Why add a sunroof to increase glare? Thought the purpose was to prevent sun glinting off sights. Guess if you are going to "illuminate" a FSP there would be benefit to straight down vs off one of the sides creating shadow that could cause you to aim left or right.

@pre64win any history on these?

Justin do you enjoy this genre you have been dragged in to?

Im may be mistaken but 4 years ago it seemed your focus was on very fine sporting rifles, the type any civilian owner is proud to display in the glass front oak gun cabinet and culls a variety of game animals with.

These military rifles though, sometimes beaten, abused, treated as mere tools, have other stories.

I've seen that style a lot on European rifles. I have a front hood like that on my CZ 452 and a couple of my Mauser Sporters and FSR-89. What it does is lets in more light on the front sight to see it clearer. Helps across the board with different light conditions.

Contrary to common thought, it does not increase glare. To get glare, the sun (or light source) would have to be at a relatively shallow angle to the front sight post. The rest of the hood prevents that.

As far as this being a Winchester deal, the best I would say it is, is a one-off in the custom shop. More than likely an aftermarket. Even if Winchester went out and procured this thing to put on this rifle.

 

[RTH1800]

I think Marbles and King both made them.

 

[Charger442]

I’ll need to dig it out sometime. Might be a while.

It's been a while, how are the pictures coming?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I've seen that style a lot on European rifles. I have a front hood like that on my CZ 452 and a couple of my Mauser Sporters and FSR-89. What it does is lets in more light on the front sight to see it clearer. Helps across the board with different light conditions.

Contrary to common thought, it does not increase glare. To get glare, the sun (or light source) would have to be at a relatively shallow angle to the front sight post. The rest of the hood prevents that.

As far as this being a Winchester deal, the best I would say it is, is a one-off in the custom shop. More than likely an aftermarket. Even if Winchester went out and procured this thing to put on this rifle.

Those front sight covers were everywhere when I was growing up as a kid. Look at the front sight for two tiny little grooves and you’ll see where the cover slid in was.

If I recall correctly my post 64 model 94 had one. It was definitely something I remember seeing factory on Winchester rifle’s in the 1970s and 80s.

I’m pretty sure I still have a couple of rifles with them fitted. They were very popular up here in Vermont until you got one packed with snow and missed a buck.

Cheers Sirhr

 

[cplnorton]

I found documents on the contract the Army bought these on during WWII. The Marine side is a little better documented than the Army side, but the Army contract was also in the WRA files and then the Army Ordnance docs. I don't remember the exact count off hand but the Army bought quite a few. It was several thousand if I remember right.

Everything I remember seeing was they were buying them as basically a sporting type rifle. They were recreational or target practice type rifles that could be checked out.

I remember seeing some correspondence too on the RIA connection post WWII. I sort of remember it as being more an inspection/storage type situation, but it's been several years ago since I read that series of docs and I'm mostly focus on the Model 70's of the Marine Corps.

The only thing I can really add past that without going back and finding that documentation, I found the Vietnam Sniper Docs for the Army and a good amount for the Marines. The Army sniper docs are very, very detailed. There were some Model 70's used by the Airborne in Vietnam, but it wasn't this style. It actually was a completely different style never mentioned in a book. Also the Army only bought like 40 of them. Those were the only Army Model 70's used by the Army in any type of a sniper role during Vietnam. The Marines took the rifles from the Quantico training range there, and there only used a very small amount in Vietnam.

There was actually only about a 100 Model 70's used officially as snipers in Vietnam by the Army and Marines. I sort of doubt many still exist.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I found documents on the contract the Army bought these on during WWII. The Marine side is a little better documented than the Army side, but the Army contract was also in the WRA files and then the Army Ordnance docs. I don't remember the exact count off hand but the Army bought quite a few. It was several thousand if I remember right.

Everything I remember seeing was they were buying them as basically a sporting type rifle. They were recreational or target practice type rifles that could be checked out.

I remember seeing some correspondence too on the RIA connection post WWII. I sort of remember it as being more an inspection/storage type situation, but it's been several years ago since I read that series of docs and I'm mostly focus on the Model 70's of the Marine Corps.

The only thing I can really add past that without going back and finding that documentation, I found the Vietnam Sniper Docs for the Army and a good amount for the Marines. The Army sniper docs are very, very detailed. There were some Model 70's used by the Airborne in Vietnam, but it wasn't this style. It actually was a completely different style never mentioned in a book. Also the Army only bought like 40 of them. Those were the only Army Model 70's used by the Army in any type of a sniper role during Vietnam. The Marines took the rifles from the Quantico training range there, and there only used a very small amount in Vietnam.

There was actually only about a 100 Model 70's used officially as snipers in Vietnam by the Army and Marines. I sort of doubt many still exist.

If you’ve been to the Marine Corps Museum you will see Chuck Mawhinney’s rifle (sp) Up on a second floor gallery. The story is that they were going through arsenal repairs and someone spotted the number. But it was his issued rifle. And it got to the Quantico Museum.

So at some point they were arsenal refinishing them and rebuilding them enough that someone could recognize the number and snag the rifle out for the historians. Cheers Sirhr

 

[pmclaine]

If you’ve been to the Marine Corps Museum you will see Chuck Mawhinney’s rifle (sp) Up on a second floor gallery. The story is that they were going through arsenal repairs and someone spotted the number. But it was his issued rifle. And it got to the Quantico Museum.

So at some point they were arsenal refinishing them and rebuilding them enough that someone could recognize the number and snag the rifle out for the historians. Cheers Sirhr

Different animal.

Win M70 vs Rem 700.

There may still be Remington 700s from VN in service at one of the sniper schools.

Win M70s though.......if there are any left they are probably at Crane or waiting to be sent to the CMP.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Different animal.

Win M70 vs Rem 700.

There may still be Remington 700s from VN in service at one of the sniper schools.

Win M70s though.......if there are any left they are probably at Crane or waiting to be sent to the CMP.

My bad…. That’s what I get for having a beer with dinner. Instead of three.

Sirhr

 

[cplnorton]

From all accounts the NAM Model 70's, which were way less than a 100 were returned to the RTE Shop in terrible condition. They were broken down for parts and to be rebuilt. With many of the parts just thrown in the dumpster because they were junk at this point.

Most became target rifles again and could have been rebuilt into any type of target configuration since then as they were used for target practice.

Supposedly some Model 70's still exist at the PWS shop. They are built into just target style rifles. At least I knew they were there a few years ago talking to some of the team guys. Now the Marines had thousands of Model 70's at one time, and less than a 100 went to NAM. The ones that went to NAM were from Quantico so it's possible some of the receivers of these rifles at the PWS shop might have been a sniper at one time. But the configuration they are now would not be a sniper.

I doubt if there is more than a couple legit Model 70's floating around that are in their original sniper configuration from NAM. Most just were rebuilt or scrapped.

 

[sandwarrior]

Those front sight covers were everywhere when I was growing up as a kid. Look at the front sight for two tiny little grooves and you’ll see where the cover slid in was.

If I recall correctly my post 64 model 94 had one. It was definitely something I remember seeing factory on Winchester rifle’s in the 1970s and 80s.

I’m pretty sure I still have a couple of rifles with them fitted. They were very popular up here in Vermont until you got one packed with snow and missed a buck.

Cheers Sirhr

Definitely the front sight with the hood was common. I don't remember any of them with a cut-out like you see in the pic.