Rock River Arms 7.62x51 rifles. Much needed improvements ASAP!

elfster1234

elfster1234

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    • Jun 3, 2012
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    #1
    Everyone that really knows me = knows I'm a huge fan of Rock River Arms. BUT, I can only say this when it comes to RRA's 5.56 line up.

    RRA!? 7.62x51? when are you going to realize, especially with 7.62 DPMS gen2 rifles hitting the market and other awesome rifles that accept PMAGS like JP / GAP / LMT, that you totally need to scrap the whole FAL mag ungodly heavy receiver BS, and start over from scratch??? Is there something I'm missing here? Is there a reason this wasn't done years ago?

    I would love to purchase a RRA 7.62x51 rifle as I know they just down right shoot out of the gate, but the whole non pmag issue with heavy as hell receiver kills it for me! Is this a pipe dream on my part? WTF?
     
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    #4
    I agree, RRA sucks. Their triggers aren't horrible, but that's not an endorsement. Also, their handguards are TANKS. It is possible, evidenced by the fact that the Noveske NSR is half the weight of a feather, to make a light handguard that is still strong!

    And their solution to the 762x39 AR is fubar in my opinion. My solution to 762x39 is simple, BUY AN AK PATTERN RIFLE!!!
     
    #5
    7.62x51 Rock River Arms!! You need to get your $hit together! WTF!?

    My 5.56 RRA coyote carbine upper was likely the most accurate upper I've owned, despite spending big money on many others. This said, my .308 was also very accurate but very unreliable (worse than single shot), and my SECOND replacement went on Gunbroker unfired.

    I have not owned a RRA product since.
     
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    #6
    RRA sucks in general? I would say no. Their 5.56 line up for the money is impressive IMO. Every single 5.56 RRA (NOTE 5.56) I've purchased has been 100% sub-moa shooter with absolutely no issues with FTF FTE and so on out of the box.

    Now, 7.62 and other calibers... maybe and is the whole reason for starting this thread. In terms of best bang for your buck 7.62x51, DPMS gen2 could really put RRA in the dust if the reports from real life owners is positive.



    rukwikenuf said:
    I agree, RRA sucks. Their triggers aren't horrible, but that's not an endorsement. Also, their handguards are TANKS. It is possible, evidenced by the fact that the Noveske NSR is half the weight of a feather, to make a light handguard that is still strong!

    And their solution to the 762x39 AR is fubar in my opinion. My solution to 762x39 is simple, BUY AN AK PATTERN RIFLE!!!
    Click to expand...
     
    #7
    I should be more clear on this.... 7.62x51

    rukwikenuf said:
    I agree, RRA sucks. Their triggers aren't horrible, but that's not an endorsement. Also, their handguards are TANKS. It is possible, evidenced by the fact that the Noveske NSR is half the weight of a feather, to make a light handguard that is still strong!

    And their solution to the 762x39 AR is fubar in my opinion. My solution to 762x39 is simple, BUY AN AK PATTERN RIFLE!!!
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    #8
    Sorry, I'm not a fan. I think that there are better options, and ill stick with my builds. I get all the parts I want and none of the extras! Right now my spare parts for ARs is an extra CTR stock and 8-9 flash hiders and comps.

    RRA has done some goofy stuff, like the FAL mags, the AR-74, their half quad rail, three sling loops on a folding front sight (with a free float handguard none the less) etc. Your rifles may very well be the best thing since sliced bread, but I'm not sold
     
    #9
    I totally understand what you're saying and that is the reason why I'm making this post.

    I wouldn't be having this thread convo right now if I didn't have such amazing results with my 5.56 RRA rifles.

    rukwikenuf said:
    Sorry, I'm not a fan. I think that there are better options, and ill stick with my builds. I get all the parts I want and none of the extras! Right now my spare parts for ARs is an extra CTR stock and 8-9 flash hiders and comps.

    RRA has done some goofy stuff, like the FAL mags, the AR-74, their half quad rail, three sling loops on a folding front sight (with a free float handguard none the less) etc. Your rifles may very well be the best thing since sliced bread, but I'm not sold
    Click to expand...
     
    #12
    The LAR-8 has been an unholy abortion of a rifle since its inception (with "another" company I'll add) those many years ago. Sure, cheap and plentiful mags was initially a good draw for them to the platform, as well as a lower price point as an "entry" level, big-boy AR platform rifle, and they had a reasonable reputation for putting out more budget-minded AR-15 rifles/carbines/uppers that were actually capable of producing exceptional accuracy and reliability...but none of that generally translated into the LAR-8 series by in large in my experience with them despite seeing a couple very promising rifles here and there.

    Add to all of that the issues with RRA going even further off the reservation with even more "proprietary" specs on their .308/7.62 AR lineup including the XL receivers/charging handle/BCG/etc. which in turn created fitment issues with a wide variety of parts/accessories that are still not supported in the aftermarket and you have a recipe much for the same sort of disaster that BM caused/created with them!

    Now, with all that said, I have seen some rifles in the LAR-8 line that were capable of outstanding accuracy for a factory production rifle and also capable of being reliable (limping around mostly due to the @#$%'ed up magazine situation causing them problems). At this point in the game though...I don't see RRA going away from their current design to anything else in terms of them making a true "DPMS-platform-based" large-frame AR like what you are talking about elfster. Simply put, they have too much tied up in their current platform to just cut and run now, especially in terms of the investment not only in major components/parts and their highly proprietary parts that only THEY are making/supporting, but also with their investment in their own polymer, 3-, 5-, 10- and 20-round mags for the LAR-8 (which I'm still completely @#$%ing confused about given that the rifle's initial selling point was supposed to be cheap, plentiful FAL mags and then they go an contract with Thermold/MM to make dedicated mags for the LAR-8...WTF indeed!!).
     
    #13
    The mag issue does suck and it's a big SUCK, but I'm really happy with my LAR-8. I really like the bolt release location on it compared to the standard but I haven't been trained for years on the AR15. Being from Illinois, I have family friends working at RRA and I do like to keep things local if I can. Rock River provides a good product for the mid-level price category. I picked up a few of the Operators when they were selling for $1000. A lot of nice features over a $700 Oracle.

    I think a lot of the issues over the LAR-8 stem from the proximity to Armalite and how fiercely they have defended their patents. At the time of LAR8 development, they had to go through all sorts of changes to satisfy Armalite. Also, PMAGS and other SR25 pattern mags were expensive, FALs weren't. This doesn't excuse RRA for not finding ways just as other manufacturers have to side-step Armalite. Maybe when current wait times for RRA rifles and parts get back to a few weeks instead of 6-9months, they will redesign their 308.
     
    #14
    Best conversation I ever heard:

    Pat Rogers, Firearms Trainer Extraordinaire: Why did you choose a RRA?
    Illinois Cop Student #1: We have a guy in our agency that is a RRA rep, and he pushes that pretty hard. He gets us deals and thinks pretty highly of them.
    Pat Rogers: mmmmmkay.......
    Illinois Cop Student #1: Besides, their factory is like a half hour away.
    Illinois Cop Student #2: SO IS LMT YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!
     
    #15
    you're right, they still produce a very very accurate 7.62x51 platform, but the whole friggen pmag thing kills it for me... especially the extra weight of the HUGE receiver! I would totally own one right now if it wasn't for those two massive issues.

    Master of none said:
    I guess I'm lucky and dumb. I have had really great luck with my predictor Hp, and I don't hate the mag situation. But I also like old cars and guitars and "obsolete" 1911's and M1a's. If you got to have the latest and greatest the RRA isn't for you. But I'll stick with my very accurate overly heavy LAR-8.
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    #16
    People who don't know about AR's, think RRA is a decent/good brand.

    They have no idea. Its actually kind of funny......and frustrating at the same time.
     
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    #20
    I think it's best to understand the BAR-10 and LAR-8 as 1994-2004 Clinton-era solutions to the magazine restrictions of the AWB at the time.

    We simply weren't allowed to manufacture new magazines with a capacity of over 10 rounds for peasantry use.

    Building the gun around the FAL mags was a great solution at the time, and the bolt catch assembly on the BAR-10 and LAR-8 is what all AR family weapons should have.

    The expiration of the Clinton AWB basically made the LAR-8 obsolete, since we could now have newly-manufactured 20rd mags, even though most of us shooting distance do better with 10rd mags anyway. The DPMS LR-308 and AP4's really took off after AWB expired, and the market hasn't looked back.

    If RRA would have made a new receiver that took SR25 mags with their bolt catch assembly, and used common BCG's to KAC and Armalite, common extensions, and common handguards, they would be in a much larger market position in the 7.62x51/.308 Winchester and variants world. They would be raking it in.

    I personally don't buy factory guns because of trust issues, as I trust myself more to source and assemble the parts more than about any manufacturer, sans a very select few. For me, RRA is not on that list, although I have owned their products before, and run them until they died a respectable death.

    I have to agree with ORD on this. RRA is in too deep now supporting an existing customer base with the LAR-8, but I still think they would be best served looking at the market trends in hunting and variant caliber Stoner designs, and find a way to be competitive with lightweight, lower-profile guns.

    They headed in that direction with the X-series, and they actually don't look half bad. http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/LAR8XS.gif

    If they are going to stick with the LAR-8 receiver set and massive BCG, they might consider introducing a hunting model with a low-mass carrier and carbon fiber handguard.

    Machine off the forward assist from the forgings, and incorporate lightening cuts on the receiver set, like a longitudinal lightening cut down the top of the 1913 rail on the upper, re-profiling the brass deflector and ejection port, and skeletonizing some of the receivers. They could also drop a little weight off the lower by introducing an exaggerated funnel magazine well.

    Balance out the gas system with the skeletonized bolt carrier, then kick in a top-notch marketing campaign for both a hunting line-up, as well as competition blaster.

    With those improvements, they could shave off at least one pound, if not more. Either do that, or wipe the table clean and start from scratch on something else.
     
    #21
    wow, very nice LRRPF! I have great respect for guys like you. Very informative.


    LRRPF52 said:
    I think it's best to understand the BAR-10 and LAR-8 as 1994-2004 Clinton-era solutions to the magazine restrictions of the AWB at the time.

    We simply weren't allowed to manufacture new magazines with a capacity of over 10 rounds for peasantry use.

    Building the gun around the FAL mags was a great solution at the time, and the bolt catch assembly on the BAR-10 and LAR-8 is what all AR family weapons should have.

    The expiration of the Clinton AWB basically made the LAR-8 obsolete, since we could now have newly-manufactured 20rd mags, even though most of us shooting distance do better with 10rd mags anyway. The DPMS LR-308 and AP4's really took off after AWB expired, and the market hasn't looked back.

    If RRA would have made a new receiver that took SR25 mags with their bolt catch assembly, and used common BCG's to KAC and Armalite, common extensions, and common handguards, they would be in a much larger market position in the 7.62x51/.308 Winchester and variants world. They would be raking it in.

    I personally don't buy factory guns because of trust issues, as I trust myself more to source and assemble the parts more than about any manufacturer, sans a very select few. For me, RRA is not on that list, although I have owned their products before, and run them until they died a respectable death.

    I have to agree with ORD on this. RRA is in too deep now supporting an existing customer base with the LAR-8, but I still think they would be best served looking at the market trends in hunting and variant caliber Stoner designs, and find a way to be competitive with lightweight, lower-profile guns.

    They headed in that direction with the X-series, and they actually don't look half bad. http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/LAR8XS.gif

    If they are going to stick with the LAR-8 receiver set and massive BCG, they might consider introducing a hunting model with a low-mass carrier and carbon fiber handguard.

    Machine off the forward assist from the forgings, and incorporate lightening cuts on the receiver set, like a longitudinal lightening cut down the top of the 1913 rail on the upper, re-profiling the brass deflector and ejection port, and skeletonizing some of the receivers. They could also drop a little weight off the lower by introducing an exaggerated funnel magazine well.

    Balance out the gas system with the skeletonized bolt carrier, then kick in a top-notch marketing campaign for both a hunting line-up, as well as competition blaster.

    With those improvements, they could shave off at least one pound, if not more. Either do that, or wipe the table clean and start from scratch on something else.
    Click to expand...
     
    #22
    Master of none said:
    I guess I'm lucky and dumb. I have had really great luck with my predictor Hp, and I don't hate the mag situation. But I also like old cars and guitars and "obsolete" 1911's and M1a's. If you got to have the latest and greatest the RRA isn't for you. But I'll stick with my very accurate overly heavy LAR-8.
    Click to expand...

    Ditto here. Yeah the mag thing might be an inconvenience and it weighs a ton but I can live with it. I have 2 RRA Elite Operators and an LAR 8 Standard Operator and they all shoot just fine for my abilities. Now when I go to step up to bigger and badder and need 1000 yd accuracy then maybe I will check out some of the other players. I have probably 3000 rounds through my LAR 8 and I have yet to see a reason to look elsewhere.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    #23
    don't get me wrong... I think RRA makes one heck of an accurate 7.62 AR for the money.. Especially with their 5.56 line up... with that said, they seriously need to start over from scratch with their 7.62 receiver or they will be left in the dust. To continue putting a blind eye to this issue IMO will only result in lost sales for RRA.


    StormHorny said:
    Ditto here. Yeah the mag thing might be an inconvenience and it weighs a ton but I can live with it. I have 2 RRA Elite Operators and an LAR 8 Standard Operator and they all shoot just fine for my abilities. Now when I go to step up to bigger and badder and need 1000 yd accuracy then maybe I will check out some of the other players. I have probably 3000 rounds through my LAR 8 and I have yet to see a reason to look elsewhere.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Click to expand...
     
    #24
    Came really close to purchasing a LAR8 2 years ago, 1100 for a 20" A2 stock, flat top upper. sounded like a smoking deal till I checked into the mods I would want
    mags were an issue but the proprietary barrel nut and handguards put it beyond what I wanted to spend. Judging by the shipping eta's they are selling just fine.
    I'm an RRA fanboy with 5.56 but spent a few hundred extra to buy a POF .308
     
    #25
    Yes the LAR-8 rifles are frigging heavy! They are no longer having feeding issues since they went to the polymer mags. They shoot pretty damn good for the price of entry! They are not going to redesign the entire platform since they do really well with what they have. I do agree they need to look at lightening them up.
    Now RRA'S being considered "junk". That's pretty much so far off that I can't take it seriously. They just flat out shoot and are affordable for the rest of us schmucks. I really would like to know what's "junk" about them though? Please educate me.......
     
    #26
    I'm not getting the size/weight complaints. All .308 semi autos are bulky. RRA's bolt hold open design does add a bit of length, but it's not like they are much different from the competition.

    Just to compare standard 20" A4 type configurations...

    RRA: 42" long, 9.0# Rock River Arms: LAR-8 Standard A4

    Armalite: 41" long, 8.9# AR-10 A4 BLACK RIFLE IN 7.62

    DPMS: 41.5" long, 11.5# 308 Classic (don't know what kind of barrel they put on that, but their lightest full length barrel is 8.5#)

    Clicking around the other rifles from these guys, they all run about 8-12#. These aren't AR15's, guys.
     
    #27
    Elfster you can put issues to rest,how about a little competition. LAR8's against all takers, 8 groups of 5 at 300-600 meters. 2 groups at each 300.400.500.600. closest to the X Talk is just talk after all. You could put a time limit of say, 20minutes on it. Maybe take all the guess work out of it entirely and request video entries. Surely if you can afford a 308 AR and ammo you can afford a video camera.
     
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    #28
    there will always be a "shooter" factor BUT regardless.... I've seen enough people shoot in real life & post enough info on the hide's shootout threads to say the following,,,,,, show me the money.... if your rifle is truly badass (regardless of manufacture),,,, and you're honest and confident in your skills, then post your results on the shootout threads. It is amazing that you don't see that many people saying "I shoot .5moa all day long" anymore, and when people do they are usually called out instantly. Rock river arms, which I'm a proud owner of due to the very reason they just "shoot" out of the box for little money is rather impressive. Don't get me wrong with this thread. RRA .308's can shoot right out the box. What I am saying is they need to do some "updates and improvements" SOON or they will be left in the dust. Like I said before, I would purchase a RRA 7.62 in a heartbeat if they would only F#CKING allow us to use pmags and improve the design of the damn receiver. Until then, I'm sticking with my 7.62 LMT or maybe the new designed dpms g2's if the results are positive.

    now, with that said, RRA 5.56 is a whole different issue... they are just bad ass IMO.. especially for the money... why spend damn near $1,000 more for an 5.56 AR, when in most cases, a 5.56 RRA will be just as IF not more accurate?? and fuck that non reliable RRA BS.. All of my RRA 5.56's just continue to shoot with no FFT or FFE after thousands and thousands of rounds later.

    Northman623 said:
    Elfster you can put issues to rest,how about a little competition. LAR8's against all takers, 8 groups of 5 at 300-600 meters. 2 groups at each 300.400.500.600. closest to the X Talk is just talk after all.
    Click to expand...
     
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    #30
    I own a LAR-8 and I only own one because I also own a FAL and have about 50 mags. As others have stated at the time it was a solution to the AWB mag problem. If I remember right M14 mags were going for $120 and FAL metric mags $15-19 a year before the AWB ended. Now the "cheap" FAL mags have dried up and look where we are. The mag issue has had a complete role reversal, so why for the love of god RRA doesn't redo their receiver to take Pmags is beyond anything I can imagine. They could still support the LAR-8 design.

    As for RRA being garbage mine have worked flawlessly. Are they upper end no, but they are far from bottom of the barrel.
     
    #31
    elfster1234 said:
    Everyone that really knows me = knows I'm a huge fan of Rock River Arms. BUT, I can only say this when it comes to RRA's 5.56 line up
    Click to expand...

    I agree with you on RRA 308 and got the Recon.
    Elfster I need your opinion. I want to get a 3G 5.56 Competition rifle. I can get the RRA 3G for 1310.00 the Stagarms 3G for 1350.00 or the DPMS 3G2g for 1150.00 which one is the best rifle and which one is the best buy.
     
    #33
    Not to totally get off topic subject here, but you asked.

    It really depends on the weight of the bullet you would like to shoot out of the rifle and what is the rifle being used for. More times than not as a weekend warrior (and most likely goes for more than 50% of the people on the hide),,, I'm just going to the 300yard range and shooting off a bench at 100yards, 200yards, and 300yards for groups. About once a week I'll hit the 600yard range and will shoot in the prone. 90% of the time I'm just shooting 5shot or 10shot groups and I'll mix it up from time to time with some standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone drills as in my CQC shootout thread: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...on-red-dot-6xmax-only-king-hill-shootout.html . I've even purchased a dpms 3g1 with a 1-4 vortex scope about 1 year ago to get into 3gun.

    Anyway, I'm some what getting off topic, but it's important to keep in mind when making a rifle purchase as for example if you were looking for a specific 3gun rifle you might want a whole different twist rate or barrel length. Maybe something with both target & hunting in mind?

    As for me, I'm usually shooting 5.56 ammo from 50grains to about ~ 75grains. Because of this, I like using a 1:8 twist barrel. IMO, 1:8 twist for 5.56 AR's is perfect. It gives you a boat load of options from target practice to hunting varmint. Maybe even deer hunting. Also, I'm not a fan of AR's over 20" barrels as they just get too long / heavy and I honestly don't think they don't give you that much of an edge in my area (as I never really shoot over 600yards). I'm a huge fan of AR's with barrels between 18" to 20" range because of this.

    With that said, I'm usually looking for the following in a 5.56 AR:
    - 1:8 twist
    - stainless steel barrel
    - 18" to 20" barrel length NON-FLUTED
    - heavy stainless for a more all around utility AR
    - bull barrel for a straight up bench bug hole shooter


    I have never owned a stagarms so I can't comment on it.

    For an all around "do it everything" rock river arms 5.56 AR. I would look into the ATH, R3, or maybe even the new x-1. Really, the only different between the 3 rra rifles listed above is if the barrel is fluted, type of buttstock, and muzzle brake. I'm a huge fan of the non-fluted heavy stainless steel ATH which I personally own and is amazingly accurate and got "sub-moa all day long" on the shootout thread.

    For a straight up bench bug hole shooter I'd recommend the rock river 5.56 varmint A4 with the new "top rail octagon" handrail. Dollar for dollar, you can not beat this 5.56 AR for the money IMO for bug hole shooting which I also own & is the first 5.56 AR rifle I've owned to make both "sub-moa all day long" and "bullseye bonus" on the 100yard semi-auto shootout threads at the same time.

    As for DPMS, there really is only one 5.56 AR that really stands out in my book (which I personally own) and that's the DPMS 3G1. I'm NOT a fan of the new 3G2 as it have a 1:9 twist 16" barrel! WTF dpms!? Anway, the dpms 3G1 is a TON of 5.56 AR for the money and is about as close to a kick ass JP rifle you will get for the money. The dpms 3G1 has a 18" 1:8 twist stainless barrel with a muculek compensator, nice crisp single stage JP trigger, JP vtac handguard, badger tactical latch, and magpul buttstock. That is a boat load of AR for about $1000 dollars and also got "sub-moa all day long" on the shootout thread with a friggen 1-4power vortex scope of all things!

    just some ideas & always verify what you buy!

    holy shit, $1000! $25 shipping. No credit card fees! $1050 out the door after you pay your FFL! WHAT!?? Not too darn bad if the vendor is legit.
    DPMS Panther 5.56 3G1 AR15 NIB No CC Fees RFA3-3G1 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

    DPMS Panther 3G1 5.56x45mm

    Rock River Arms Advanced Tactical Hunter AR 1560 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

    Rock River Arms R3 Competition Rifle 5.56 : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

    Rock River Arms A4 20 " Varmint Rifle 5.56mm NIB : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com











    Don-n-Texas said:
    I agree with you on RRA 308 and got the Recon.
    Elfster I need your opinion. I want to get a 3G 5.56 Competition rifle. I can get the RRA 3G for 1310.00 the Stagarms 3G for 1350.00 or the DPMS 3G2g for 1150.00 which one is the best rifle and which one is the best buy.
    Click to expand...
     
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    #35
    I believe that RRA makes a good out-of-the-box target/varmint rifle. My dad and all of his other old man, shooting buddies went in and purchased some of their varmint models several years ago. I've gone shooting with them, and every stinking one of them shoots sub MOA. Not bad for a $1015 rifle. No failures to any of their rifles that I have ever heard of, but none of them run their rifles hard either or take them out in crap weather conditions (I doubt you'd find me out in that either when I'm 70+ years old).

    That being said, I've read and heard enough that I would not pick up an RRA for a "combat" service rifle. My experience running them is next to nothing, so my opinion is based solely on reading/hearing enough negative stories. I've carried the M16A2, M16A4, and M4 so far in my service experience. I've shot matches with the A2 and A4, and taken the A4 and M4 with me into some pretty crappy environments overseas. As long as I did my part on maintenance they have gone bang every time I've pulled the trigger. Therefore I value a service rifle that has a solid performance record, and to me RRA does not.

    I'll keep my DDM4V7 for a good overall house/ranch, 2 or 4 legged predator eliminator. However for punching paper, I firmly believe that RRA is a good deal for the money.
     
    #36
    Sorry I got off topic.

    Elfster, I am sure that when sales drop too low, RRA will re-think and re-enter the game with some much needed improvements to their 7.62/.308 line.
     
    #37
    I guarantee you that RRA will not undergo a design change just to allow Pmags. If.....yes if they stop selling, they will discontinue that line. Just as they did for their 1911's. Im here to tell you they still cant keep up with demand. I'm not sure why all the hate for their current polymer mags? Sure they don't say magpul but who the fuck really cares if they are reliable.
     
    #39
    My LMT is more of a DMR rifle... not an out right bench target / varmint shooter. I honestly believe RRA makes rifles that can shoot just as good if not better than my LMT. Put it this way, my 5.56 varmint shoots better than my LMT and I honestly think RRA could / can produce a 7.62 rifle that can go against the LMT in terms of accuracy. Now reliability, that's a whole different issue. My LMT chews up every ounce of ammo I put in it's mouth and is built like a tank. I would have no issues owning a RRA 7.62 next to my LMT if they would just do it right.


    Nuke Man said:
    And elfster if you have a LMT why in the heck would you want a RRA? That's a down grade brother!
    Click to expand...
     
    #40
    I have the old BM BAR10. IME, The polymer mags are far better than any of the steel FAL mags, including new ones. They just require a bit of hand fitting to make them drop free.

    My bolt broke the "tail" off--replaced the entire BCG with RRA assembly. I checked the headspace with a gage, but it wasn't necessary as the new BCG was a drop-in flawless installation. The new RRA bolts are much beefier than the old BM bolt.

    I don't necessarily LIKE the magazine situation, but it's definitely not a deal-killer for me. What I hate much worse is the ambi mag release is so dam hard to push. Sometimes I have to get my thumb on it so I can put out. I haven't handled a new RRA so maybe this problem has been fixed. Overall my experience has been good with the old BM design, just a couple eccentricities that force me to adapt and overcome. No problem on a range gun.
     
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