Ron Unz - Everything you know about WW2 is wrong

And there goes the “i read multiple sources and first person account narrative…” Youre just as biased or even more than those commies you claim are reinventing history…
As a slav and if i had a say i’d exterminate germans in ‘45 but some things Holoscam included just did not happen in a way it is generally accepted and taught..
Ok, a “historian” doesn’t source some claims, and just make up others. His claim that the allies perpetrated the holocaust is disqualifying, period. If you tell some lies mixed with the truth do you know what you are?

I’m not saying he hasn’t done some scholarship early on, but he has beclowned and completely discredited himself with crazy. He’s clearly self loathing, and an apologist for evil. He has serious personal problems that prevent him from any sort of objectivity. He’s a nutter who is the patron saint of the “Hitler was right” crowd. His talks in the US, Canada, and West Germany used to be filled with people wearing swasticas and Nazi uniforms. I thought we got rid of all you losers in the 1980s along with David Duke? Guess the war agains Hamas has reenergized you.

I don’t report people, but I know Frank has a special place in his two sizes too small, Marine heart for this sort of shit. If he sees it and some of Irvings more anti-Semitic rants, you’re probably gone, so I would hope someone closes this thread. No one here wants to be associated with Nazis and Nazi apologists, which is what Irving became.

The fucker was actually imprisoned in Austria for holocaust denial, which is a crime there. I had no fucking idea who he was, but the more you look the crazier it gets. Dude is pure poison, and has no problem with the seig heil crowd. ‘Alternate” history is generally bullshit, and this is no different.
 
PS: Just to add i wonder how many of you know that a civil war that you fought wasn't one tiny little bit about slavery or secession
The slavery part is true. The Emancipation Proclamation was supposed to foment rebellion on the plantations. A war time PsyOp. The North figured that if they could disrupt the labor supplying the Southern Army, the war would end very rapidly. There was very little rebellion at the plantations. Many slaves had not even gotten the message by wars end, no Starlink. Others had no intention of leaving, their life was not so bad. Slavery was already banned in much of the world and even the southern farmers were weaning themselves from the labor source. However, that PsyOp turned into what has turned out to be the greatest spin move ever. A huge majority of the world thinks that war was fought exclusively over slavery when it was more about being taxed with no benefits.

4 score and 20 years earlier, another war was fought due a similar reason.

I have always considered the US Civil war a failed Revolution.

How do you feel about all of the taxes you are paying now? v3?

However, once the south decided they had had enough, secession was full on the plan. Interestingly, much of the North also felt like it was each STATES RIGHT to secede, pretty much at will. ALA the US Constitution. Lincoln sent troops to New York to quell a rebellion that was partly over conscription into a war that people did not agree with.

Lincoln ushered in the current load of federal overreach we are having to dismantle. TRoosevelt, Wilson and FDR then cemented the power of the fed over the state and individual, weaponizing the gov against those it taxes for existence, grabbing huge swaths of land (primarily) in the west, completely counter to the COTUS. IMHO, Abe was only very slightly more successful as POTUS than FJB. Historiically, with the ramifications of the actions he took, the worst that we have ever had.

The modern plantations are the big cities. LOTS of labor sources for just a few jobs. Pay is so low that folks can't even save enough to escape. Reminiscent of the company store. In some ways, even the rural areas are just the plowed fields raising the crops to feed the poor in the cities.
 
Look further back in history...all of the ruling families were related to each other. Cousins fucking cousins and sisters fucking brothers to keep the wealth. They would have little wars here and there to keep the populace proud to be patriotic countrymen and hating the enemy.

So why did they let go of patriotism/nationalism?
 
So why did they let go of patriotism/nationalism?

Possibly because prostrating themselves to foreign powers or goofy religions (like Communism and Socialism) is better for the wallet and they think they will 'emerge' from the Revolution as one of the leaders.

Marx predicted it.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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The topic has bent towards this.... so I'll post a link to a really outstanding film from about 10 years ago.


Based on the true story of Irving and his full-retard 'historical' credentials.

Very well done, great courtroom drama. Learned a lot about the UK Legal system while watching it. All in all a great film to see!

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS And, yes, Irving was full-retard!
 
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The slavery part is true. The Emancipation Proclamation was supposed to foment rebellion on the plantations. A war time PsyOp. The North figured that if they could disrupt the labor supplying the Southern Army, the war would end very rapidly. There was very little rebellion at the plantations. Many slaves had not even gotten the message by wars end, no Starlink. Others had no intention of leaving, their life was not so bad. Slavery was already banned in much of the world and even the southern farmers were weaning themselves from the labor source. However, that PsyOp turned into what has turned out to be the greatest spin move ever. A huge majority of the world thinks that war was fought exclusively over slavery when it was more about being taxed with no benefits.

4 score and 20 years earlier, another war was fought due a similar reason.

I have always considered the US Civil war a failed Revolution.

How do you feel about all of the taxes you are paying now? v3?

However, once the south decided they had had enough, secession was full on the plan. Interestingly, much of the North also felt like it was each STATES RIGHT to secede, pretty much at will. ALA the US Constitution. Lincoln sent troops to New York to quell a rebellion that was partly over conscription into a war that people did not agree with.

Lincoln ushered in the current load of federal overreach we are having to dismantle. TRoosevelt, Wilson and FDR then cemented the power of the fed over the state and individual, weaponizing the gov against those it taxes for existence, grabbing huge swaths of land (primarily) in the west, completely counter to the COTUS. IMHO, Abe was only very slightly more successful as POTUS than FJB. Historiically, with the ramifications of the actions he took, the worst that we have ever had.

The modern plantations are the big cities. LOTS of labor sources for just a few jobs. Pay is so low that folks can't even save enough to escape. Reminiscent of the company store. In some ways, even the rural areas are just the plowed fields raising the crops to feed the poor in the cities.
This may be the stupidest thread ever. You guys just want to believe whatever reinforces your biases. It's not just that it's one interpretation and point of view. It's that it leaves out key facts and ignores things in order to come to a specific conclusion.

The Republican Party was conceived and born of Whig abolitionists. Alvan Bovay, Salmon Chase, Charles Sumner, Horace Greeley, and Amos Tuck were all completely unambiguous and outspoken abolitionists whose central purpose in forming a new party was specifically to fight the Kansas-Nebraska Act which upended the Missouri Compromise, and opened up all the Western Territories to slavery, which they believe had to be stopped at all costs. Turns out there were right, though you can also argue that they were working to cause Bleeding Kansas and the troubles out West to contain Slavery and prevent it's expansion. All of them entered this new party with the intention of containing and slowly eliminating slavery. None of them advocated a war to end slavery. They wanted to choke it out of existence, and in the ensuing years they certainly used every tool available to them to do that, including policies they believed would hasten it's demise. It really WAS a War of Northern Aggression because of that, and I agree that The South was more reacting to that aggression. So there we agree. What you can't argue is why they formed the Republican Party, because all of them gave speeches and wrote extensively about it being an abolitionist party from it's inception and how slavery should not exist in a country founded upon liberty as both an intellectual and a moral imperative.

So while you can say that the South reacted to the North's aggression and hostile legislation, what you can't say is that the North wasn't doing all that because of slavery when the Republican party was made up of abolitionists who wanted to end slavery and who wrote about it, read about it, and heard it from the pulpit and in the pews every Sunday. They were soaked in it, and a large portion of them were fanatics about it, unlike the South were the people fanatical about slavery were probably the smallest segment of society.

Perspective and facts, but not perspective alone. To say it was about economics and not slavery when so much of the South's economy was contingent on the lowest cost labor possible is obtuse. About as close to that as you can get is to say that for the average Southern Soldier the war WAS about sovereignty and a Federal Government they felt was out of control regardless of their views on slavery, which were probably more along the lines that it was part of the human condition going all the way back to prehistory (which would have been correct). What you can't say is that the average Union soldier didn't care about the issue of slavery (especially if they were Republicans). This to the point of John Brown, a violent criminal executed for insurrection against that Federal Government, of being elevated into a hero through abolitionist propaganda.

By saying that the war wasn't about slavery you are pretty much picking the perspective one side without considering the other. Even the slave holding Founding Fathers knew and wrote about the problem of slavery and it's incompatibility with the ideas and morality of their high minded Republic. John Q. Adams even called slavery the coming "Last Battle of the American Revolution".
 
It matters little what is in a history book as they are always,... WRITTEN,... by the victor.

Unless you were there, or had kinfolk/s you trust there, its all questionable. What is not questionable is what transpired after the so called historical event, that is w/o question. Plus a clue to what really caused said event in the first place if you're smart enough to think for yourself & read between the lines.

People are easily lead and paid pipers were a dine a dozen long ago. These days stupidity & agendas motivate them into being free shills,...
 
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This may be the stupidest thread ever. You guys just want to believe whatever reinforces your biases. It's not just that it's one interpretation and point of view. It's that it leaves out key facts and ignores things in order to come to a specific conclusion.

The Republican Party was conceived and born of Whig abolitionists. Alvan Bovay, Salmon Chase, Charles Sumner, Horace Greeley, and Amos Tuck were all completely unambiguous and outspoken abolitionists whose central purpose in forming a new party was specifically to fight the Kansas-Nebraska Act which upended the Missouri Compromise, and opened up all the Western Territories to slavery, which they believe had to be stopped at all costs. Turns out there were right, though you can also argue that they were working to cause Bleeding Kansas and the troubles out West to contain Slavery and prevent it's expansion. All of them entered this new party with the intention of containing and slowly eliminating slavery. None of them advocated a war to end slavery. They wanted to choke it out of existence, and in the ensuing years they certainly used every tool available to them to do that, including policies they believed would hasten it's demise. It really WAS a War of Northern Aggression because of that, and I agree that The South was more reacting to that aggression. So there we agree. What you can't argue is why they formed the Republican Party, because all of them gave speeches and wrote extensively about it being an abolitionist party from it's inception and how slavery should not exist in a country founded upon liberty as both an intellectual and a moral imperative.

So while you can say that the South reacted to the North's aggression and hostile legislation, what you can't say is that the North wasn't doing all that because of slavery when the Republican party was made up of abolitionists who wanted to end slavery and who wrote about it, read about it, and heard it from the pulpit and in the pews every Sunday. They were soaked in it, and a large portion of them were fanatics about it, unlike the South were the people fanatical about slavery were probably the smallest segment of society.

Perspective and facts, but not perspective alone. To say it was about economics and not slavery when so much of the South's economy was contingent on the lowest cost labor possible is obtuse. About as close to that as you can get is to say that for the average Southern Soldier the war WAS about sovereignty and a Federal Government they felt was out of control regardless of their views on slavery, which were probably more along the lines that it was part of the human condition going all the way back to prehistory (which would have been correct). What you can't say is that the average Union soldier didn't care about the issue of slavery (especially if they were Republicans). This to the point of John Brown, a violent criminal executed for insurrection against that Federal Government, of being elevated into a hero through abolitionist propaganda.

By saying that the war wasn't about slavery you are pretty much picking the perspective one side without considering the other. Even the slave holding Founding Fathers knew and wrote about the problem of slavery and it's incompatibility with the ideas and morality of their high minded Republic. John Q. Adams even called slavery the coming "Last Battle of the American Revolution".
Mostly true and documented.
You sorta give it your own personal spin while accusing others of the same.
The southern farmers took their crops from the field by wagon to the rivers all with slave labor. Oh...by the way...slave labor is/was, contrary to belief, NOT FREE. Even during the days of full on slavery, slaves were not cheap by any means and most were fairly well taken care of. Same as there are some guys who don't take of their other property, there were slave owners that didn't take good care of their slaves. So...it wasn't free to get those crops in the ground, raised and harvested and transported to the river to be loaded onto barges. The barge guys needed money, too, so they charged for their services so the southern farmer paid a fee. Once the barges reached the deeper ports where the crops could be transferred to a ship, the southern farmer paid again. Once that ship arrived at the ports in the northeast where the industrial sector was really in full swing, the southern farmer then paid again to have his crops and goods offloaded. Sure, brokerage firms and shit....
Meanwhile, over the previous 40 years, there had been canals built to transport shit for the those mills in the north with less cost. Then came the railways...guess where those were being built? Not in the south.
It cost less to buy a ton of cotton that came from Egypt (gee...I wonder if there was use of slaves there, too, negating the narrative of anti-slavery textile mills) than Alabama so the textile mills were only willing to pay that price. The southern farmers were losing money with no end in sight. They wanted to keep making money but needed less expensive transportation in order to do so. in the meanwhile, they NEEDED their slaves.
After the war. railroads did begin to be built in the south. Just in time for the great migration of slave labor from the farms in the south to the steel mills and coal mines and company stores and tenement housing.
As Pete Townsend said, "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss" Except now the southern farmer WAS out of business but Andrew Carnegie, et al were thriving.
 
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